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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Gaijin Ghetto

Momus on the Problem of Having a Bi-racial Child in japan

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Momus on the Problem of Having a Bi-racial Child in japan

Postby Mulboyne » Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:04 pm

Musician Nick Currie, who records and performs under the name Momus, writes regularly on his blog about Japan where he had some significant career success in the 90s. If you aren't familiar with the man, he is something of a Japanophile. He loves Japan, Japanese girls, the culture and the society. His critics regularly accuse him of orientalism or describing a Japan which doesn't exist in reality. He doesn't speak Japanese which his detractors say means he has no real understanding of what is going on in the country as shown by his frequent factual errors. Currie contends that many foreigners who write about Japan, including those with language fluency, moan far too much about the country and people. He thinks many are guilty of wanting Japan to be like the West: his critics answer that he wants Japan to be like the image he has created for it when it already differs substantially.

That's just a brief background to the following recent exchange on his blog. Momus has a Japanese fiancée. He'll be fifty next year and hasn't expressed a strong interest in having children but his fiancée, Hisae, is younger and so he was asked whether she might hope to have a baby. I've edited some ot the exchange which you can see in full here.

Anon: Momus, do you ever regret not being a parent? Is it a point of contention at all with Hisae, who is still of an age where she could be a mother?

Momus: I personally don't regret it at all. Hisae says "Not regrets... yet!" But if she wants a kid, she would like it to be 100% Japanese, not "western mixture". And I agree. So we talk about "scouting" -- getting some Japanese donor sperm.

Anon: I can't tell whether or not you're being flippant...but I'd genuinely be interested in hearing why both yourself and Hisae would prefer a '100%' Japanese child to a 'western mixture'.

Momus: We're half joking, half serious. It's all about the nature of Japan, a society which tends to make you feel like an outsider if you aren't 100% Japanese. A mixed-race kid would have a hard time growing up there, feeling s/he didn't belong properly to any nationality. Also, says Hisae, hafu kids -- part-Japanese, part-foreign -- are not trendy in Japan any more. The move, the mood in the last ten years has been away from multiculturalism. Giving birth to a hafu is creating a walking, talking nest of adjustment and identity problems. Sure, you can do it, but you need to be aware of this context.

Another commenter:
Solution: raise your non-trendy, un-cool mongrel child in Berlin [where Momus currently lives] or some other catastrophically welcoming place.

Momus: Yes. But we want to live in Japan...A while ago we looked at the freakonomics of inter-racial dating in the US and put an actual dollar value on just how much more you have to earn per year to overcome the handicap of being an Asian male on the US dating scene (the figure is $247,000). In the same way, we could look at just how beautiful or famous you have to be (or your parents have to be) in Japan for the Japanese to overlook the fact of your hafu status, or see it as an advantage. And maybe the answer is "Your parents need to be Lennon and Ono".

Anon: I won't hide the fact that it upsets me that something so barren (so this-worldly!) as 'my kid will look slightly different' (plus ensuing ramifications) should have such profound significance that it might genuinely make one question their suitability to biologically parent a child.

Momus: Well, I think it would cruel to treat a kid as a sort of challenge to the culture s/he was going to grow up in, or have the sort of kid who'd fit into the kind of world you think ought to exist, rather than the sort that does exist. But also I think there are different interpretations of what multiculturalism might mean, and I personally skew towards the one that says that it's a lot more fun if we keep our flavours. The Japanese are "minor differences" racists -- in other words, they're not racist if you're clearly different, and they're not racist if you're clearly the same. It's when you're in between those that you risk getting bullied, especially in childhood. That has to be borne in mind.
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Postby BO-SENSEI » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:22 pm

The best place to raised mix-race kids is Hawaii, which has a massive hafu population, or as they call them happa. But the part where he said,

Also, says Hisae, hafu kids -- part-Japanese, part-foreign -- are not trendy in Japan any more. The move, the mood in the last ten years has been away from multiculturalism.

does not sit well with me, a reason to not have a kid because it would upset social norms, let alone calling it not trendy, sounds like a bs reason to me. Things like that disgust me.
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Postby Screwed-down Hairdo » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:40 pm

Mulboyne wrote:Musician Nick Currie, who records and performs under the name Momus, writes regularly on his blog about Japan where he had some significant career success in the 90s. If you aren't familiar with the man, he is something of a Japanophile. He loves Japan, Japanese girls, the culture and the society. His critics regularly accuse him of orientalism or describing a Japan which doesn't exist in reality. He doesn't speak Japanese which his detractors say means he has no real understanding of what is going on in the country as shown by his frequent factual errors. Currie contends that many foreigners who write about Japan, including those with language fluency, moan far too much about the country and people. He thinks many are guilty of wanting Japan to be like the West: his critics answer that he wants Japan to be like the image he has created for it when it already differs substantially.

That's just a brief background to the following recent exchange on his blog. Momus has a Japanese fiancé]here[/URL].


I think Herr Momus needs to spend a bit more time as an auslander living in Japan to see what it's really like.
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Postby FG Lurker » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:38 pm

Never heard of Momus before but I have to say he sounds a fuck of a lot like Jack.
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Postby Greji » Sun Jul 12, 2009 8:41 pm

FG Lurker wrote:Never heard of Momus before but I have to say he sounds a fuck of a lot like Jack.


I gotta agree with you Lurk. I've had more half kids then the Mary Sanders Home and have no idea what Momus is trying to say....
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:32 pm

BO-SENSEI wrote:The best place to raised mix-race kids is Hawaii, which has a massive hafu population, or as they call them happa. But the part where he said,


does not sit well with me, a reason to not have a kid because it would upset social norms, let alone calling it not trendy, sounds like a bs reason to me. Things like that disgust me.

[nitpick]"Hapa" is a half in Hawaii. "Happa" is a leaf/leaves in Japan.[/nitpick]
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Momus should stick to music

Postby kino » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:41 pm

Because nothing says normal like impregnating your wife with another man's sperm. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but from a child's perspective, I'm not sure it is preferrable to being picked on occassionally by biggoted children.

He seems to place a lot of stock in national identity for a Scott living in Berlin and married to a Japanese woman.

The Japanese are "minor differences" racists -- in other words, they're not racist if you're clearly different, and they're not racist if you're clearly the same.


And we wouldn't want to upset the delicate sensibilities of "minor difference" racists by thrusting our mongrel children into their space. Besides painting with a broad and crude stroke, this is just a stupid thing to say.

Meh.
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Postby Catoneinutica » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:47 pm

Momus was David Marx's bete noir back in the Neomarxisme days. My take on Momus is that he's a cultural essentialist. Japan's the way it is, and no amount of theorizing (Marxy) or agitating (Debito) is going to change anything. Indeed, it's counterproductive because it just antagonizes the Tansoku Tribe. So if Marxy says the yaks run the talent agencies and exploit their charges, Momus would say, so what, that's apparently the arrangement that the Japanese have found to be optimal.

So yeah, Momus is basically Gregory Clark Jr. (well, at 50, not-so-Jr.).
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Postby kagemusha » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:39 pm

I liked listening to Momus about 10 years ago and he have done a good work with Kahimi karie but this is just another one of many cases where you find out that a (moderately) good artist is just a total shithead in his real life philosophy.
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Postby kurohinge1 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:32 am

BO-SENSEI wrote:The best place to raised mix-race kids is Hawaii, which has a massive hafu population, or as they call them happa. But the part where he said,
Also, says Hisae, hafu kids -- part-Japanese, part-foreign -- are not trendy in Japan any more. The move, the mood in the last ten years has been away from multiculturalism.
does not sit well with me, a reason to not have a kid because it would upset social norms, let alone calling it not trendy, sounds like a bs reason to me. Things like that disgust me.


Amen to that.

And imagine finding out that your father was actually never man enough to step-up and be . . . your father! :confused:
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Postby oyajikun » Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:42 am

BO-SENSEI wrote:The best place to raised mix-race kids is Hawaii, which has a massive hafu population, or as they call them happa. But the part where he said,


does not sit well with me, a reason to not have a kid because it would upset social norms, let alone calling it not trendy, sounds like a bs reason to me. Things like that disgust me.


I did a lot of research on Hawaii, and I tried my hardest to convince myself that we should move there, but in the end we decided that the cons outweighed the pros. ie high cost of living, drugs, crime, racism, bad schools etc.

As much as I love Hawaii, I am confident that Okinawa is a much better place to raise children. There are plenty of other half kids on the island and there is a large enough American (in my case) community for my daughter to identify with the spectrum of nationalities. I would still like to move to Hawaii someday, but not until I retire and my children have gone off to University.
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Postby Ketou » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:28 am

kurohinge1 wrote:Amen to that.

And imagine finding out that your father was actually never man enough to step-up and be . . . your father! :confused:


And the odd thing is, people in Japan would be more likely to find the child and couple odd because of the kid not being half....
So instead of being teased for being half he/she gets teased because his/her mom was knocked up by someone other than the 'dad'.....
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Postby BO-SENSEI » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:44 am

Ketou wrote:And the odd thing is, people in Japan would be more likely to find the child and couple odd because of the kid not being half....
So instead of being teased for being half he/she gets teased because his/her mom was knocked up by someone other than the 'dad'.....

That would lead to all kinds of teasing, like "Your father is the NHK man." Not wearing Crocs because they are not trendy, fine (can't wait till that happens) , not having a mix-race kid because its not trendy, you are in the need for a serious bitch slapping.:herring:
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Postby maraboutslim » Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:56 pm

kino wrote:And we wouldn't want to upset the delicate sensibilities of "minor difference" racists by thrusting our mongrel children into their space.


But it's not about you. One may be fine with challenging the sensibilities of Japan, but is it cool for him to force his children to grow up with all those troubles just so he can try to make some sort of statement or affect a societal change that'll not take place until well after the kids have suffered?

I decided it would not be right thing to do. And thus...

Solution: raise your non-trendy, un-cool mongrel child in ...some ...catastrophically welcoming place.


In our case, California. I'd love to live in Japan again, honestly. But I won't until my kids are out of school.
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Postby Mulboyne » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:37 pm

On the issue of hafu kids no longer being trendy, there is a slightly more benign reading of what Momus' girlfriend meant when saying that. She might have been arguing that there was a sweet spot when hafu kids got an easier ride in Japan because perceptions changed for the better. She might have been suggesting that views had once again changed and hafu kids were back to being shunned and resented.

Even allowing that, there are still a lot of odd notions on display in the exchange.
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Postby Mock Cockpit » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:39 pm

Is he that pirate looking mother fucker who sits on the floor? Wanker.
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Postby 6810 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:46 pm

Mock Cockpit wrote:Is he that pirate looking mother fucker who sits on the floor? Wanker.


yes.
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Postby 6810 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:47 pm

kagemusha wrote:I liked listening to Momus about 10 years ago and he have done a good work with Kahimi karie but this is just another one of many cases where you find out that a (moderately) good artist is just a total shithead in his real life philosophy.


Yep, so true, so often. It's better not to read magazines or even look sideways at the internet. Everyone turns out to be a fucking loser.
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Postby gomichild » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:12 pm

I didn't have a hafu baby because it was trendy - but we get mobbed everywhere.

There's always problems with having kids - if it's not one thing it's another. EM's Japanese great grandmother is terrified he's going to end up left handed for example and flurries to put everything in his right hand. She doesn't seem worried that he's half Japanese and half cranky white woman.

Besides sometimes you end up with something as adorable as this:

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A litter of mongrel children would do Japan good

Postby kino » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:27 am

maraboutslim wrote:But it's not about you. One may be fine with challenging the sensibilities of Japan, but is it cool for him to force his children to grow up with all those troubles just so he can try to make some sort of statement or affect a societal change that'll not take place until well after the kids have suffered?


Given all the problems California is facing, are you so sure you made the right decision? ;)

Look, my children are about me to the extent that I love my wife and want to have children by her. It has nothing to do whatsoever with some self-centered desire to "challenging the sensibilities" of Japan. However, unlike Momus, I'm certainly not prepared to give deference to the opinions of a bunch of racist, ultra-rightwing crackpots when making such important decisions.

My main problem with Momus' statements is that he is giving indirect support to the people who believe that Japanese society should remain homogenously Japanese and that bi-racial children contribute to societal unrest and disharmony. The exact same argument was made by white racists with regard to "mulatto" children and this is no different. Dressing up this belief as a concern for the wellbeing of the unborn child is a time honored tradition. The same arguments are made with regard to the children of same-sex couples and they still hold no water.

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Postby Bucky » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:29 am

gomichild wrote:EM's Japanese great grandmother is terrified he's going to end up left handed for example and flurries to put everything in his right hand. :D

There always seems to be a need for left-handed power-hitters. I am sure the Kyojin would agree. Ichiro seems to get along OK batting left-handed

In our case, son #1 is a lefty and no one on the Japanese side of the family mentioned a thing.
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Postby halfnip » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:14 am

What a crock of horseshit. I've heard people make this case time and time again and it just doesn't fly with me. Considering the username, you can see how I'm biased. ;)

And I don't plan on my daughter having any issues either. At least nothing out of the ordinary that EVERY kid has to deal with these days...
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Postby Greji » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:38 am

[quote="halfnip"]What a crock of horseshit. I've heard people make this case time and time again and it just doesn't fly with me. Considering the username, you can see how I'm biased. ]

I'm with ya halfie. With all my kids, I got halves, quarters and three quarters running in and out of the house on any given day of the year. I have yet to hear them, or for that matter, anyone mention whether it is trendy or not......
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Postby maraboutslim » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:39 pm

kino wrote:My main problem with Momus' statements is that he is giving indirect support to the people who believe that Japanese society should remain homogenously Japanese and that bi-racial children contribute to societal unrest and disharmony. The exact same argument was made by white racists with regard to "mulatto" children and this is no different. Dressing up this belief as a concern for the wellbeing of the unborn child is a time honored tradition. The same arguments are made with regard to the children of same-sex couples and they still hold no water.


Having read Momus' post on Marxy's blog all that time, I suspect he just likes difference. He isn't interested in making the whole world into something resembling america or western europe, as most of you here seem interested in doing. Perhaps he even believes that values are relative and there is no ultimate truth or virtue to which all humans must abide.

We have places on the earth where we can all get along and celebrate diversity. San Francisco where I've chosen to live, for example. Clearly I'm a fan of such an approach to life. I'm also likely to support moving towards having such an attitude in places where it is necessary - places where there are mixed societies and people need to get along with each other.

But I'm just not convinced Japan is such a place and if it's even worth worrying about issues of race or addressing them at all in regards to Japan. This is still a place that has only (as of 2002) 1.22% of its population as anything other than full Japanese. (that 1.22% includes native born koreans and chinese, btw.) As a nation, they seem to be getting along with other countries just fine. And as an internal "problem" it's just not one that can possibly crop up often enough to even deserve to be on the radar. If one chooses to be one of the 1% (and all of you have chosen of your own free will), is it really acceptable to expect the 99% to change in anyway to accommodate you and the other tiny minority? It always seemed such a silly concept to me.
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Postby Mulboyne » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:45 pm

maraboutslim wrote:...This is still a place that has only (as of 2002) 1.22% of its population as anything other than full Japanese. (that 1.22% includes native born koreans and chinese, btw.)...

As an aside, that figure became 1.74% of the population in 2008.
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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:03 pm

maraboutslim wrote:As a nation, they seem to be getting along with other countries just fine.


Historically speaking this statement is hilarious. If the US weakens over the next decades due to the current clusterfuck I can easily see Japan taking a much more aggressive stance towards China and Korea once again.
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Postby Mock Cockpit » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:50 pm

maraboutslim wrote:
But I'm just not convinced Japan is such a place and if it's even worth worrying about issues of race or addressing them at all in regards to Japan. This is still a place that has only (as of 2002) 1.22% of its population as anything other than full Japanese. (that 1.22% includes native born koreans and chinese, btw.) As a nation, they seem to be getting along with other countries just fine. And as an internal "problem" it's just not one that can possibly crop up often enough to even deserve to be on the radar. If one chooses to be one of the 1% (and all of you have chosen of your own free will), is it really acceptable to expect the 99% to change in anyway to accommodate you and the other tiny minority? It always seemed such a silly concept to me.

Fair enough, but by the same token I don't expect some cunt to give me or my kids or my wife a hard time because of who we are. Being that this is (in theory) a free country that should mean one of the freedoms is "to not be hassled by ignorant dickheads".
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Postby hundefar » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:14 pm

maraboutslim wrote:
But I'm just not convinced Japan is such a place and if it's even worth worrying about issues of race or addressing them at all in regards to Japan. This is still a place that has only (as of 2002) 1.22% of its population as anything other than full Japanese. (that 1.22% includes native born koreans and chinese, btw.)


"Full japanese"? What does that mean? Does this include ainu, burakumin and okinawans? And what about the some times huge cultural differences between "full Japanese"? I might be wrong, but you seem to buy into the assumption that Japan is cultural homogenous. I have to say that I don't agree with that. It is an imagined Japan, that serves the purpose of excusing bigotry (among other things). Not saying that you are a bigot here, just to make that clear :)

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Postby maraboutslim » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:38 pm

FG Lurker wrote:Historically speaking this statement is hilarious.


Well, if I was speaking about the past, I wouldn't have used the verb tense I did.

hundefar wrote:"Full japanese"? What does that mean? Does this include ainu, burakumin and okinawans? And what about the some times huge cultural differences between "full Japanese"? I might be wrong, but you seem to buy into the assumption that Japan is cultural homogenous. I have to say that I don't agree with that. It is an imagined Japan, that serves the purpose of excusing bigotry (among other things). Not saying that you are a bigot here, just to make that clear :)


You can have your own definition if you'd like, but I'm of the opinion that the Japanese get to decide who is Japanese. Japan is culturally more homogenous than most other countries. Yes, you can find exceptions (ainu, okinawa, minor cultural differences in different parts of the country, differences amongst individuals as to their preferences that are on the level of "taste" and not deep culture, etc.), but that no more upsets the idea that Japan is damn near culturally homogenous than the existence of gaijin upset the fact that Japan is damn near all "Japanese".

My goal in life has been to be left alone to live as I see fit. I can't demand that and yet go around sticking my nose into other people's business, now can I?
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Postby maraboutslim » Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:45 pm

Mock Cockpit wrote:Fair enough, but by the same token I don't expect some cunt to give me or my kids or my wife a hard time because of who we are. Being that this is (in theory) a free country that should mean one of the freedoms is "to not be hassled by ignorant dickheads".


But in Japan, order is maintained by hassling other people, seeking homogeneity in behavior, increasing predictability and therefore ultimate stability of the society. That's just the way things work in Japan. There is nothing that the 1%ers are going to do to change that.

If it bothers you, feel free to join us in san francisco where it is actually bad to hassle other people because they are different.

Here's the crazy thing: as an adult, japan felt as free as san francisco. free to do whatever the hell you want and not really be expected to "conform". I mean, maybe I liked living in Japan because I am totally comfortable being an individual and have absolutely no need to feel accepted on to the home team. And that works in Japan just as easily as it works in san francisco. They don't expect us gaijin to conform to their cultural standards and so it'd be pretty rude of me to expect them to conform to mine. (don't get hung up on the fact that the reason they don't expect us to be like them is that they think they are special and we're therefore simply incapable of being like them: just enjoy the freedom of being left alone to do your own thing.)

But it would be selfish of me to expect my children to feel the same way I do. Maybe they'd prefer to have a strong sense of belonging and attachment to their society. So rather than expecting japan to change in that regard just for us, I voted with my feet and took them (when the oldest reached school age) to the society that already exists that matches what I was looking for. That seemed way more sensible of an approach to us. The kids can grow up here in a society that really is designed to be a "free country" and then decide if they want to go to Japan to live later. Their Japanese is pretty good and they've got Japanese names and all that so if they feel comfortable there, good for them. I'll probably be there myself in about 10 years.
maraboutslim
Maezumo
 
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Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 10:26 am
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