Denied into KIX...again

[Cyka UchuuJin]

not me this time though. good friend is there right now. he was on that year long 'working holiday' visa and has a teaching visa that is approved , but he hasn't had it put into his passport yet. the working holiday was about to expire, so he went off to macau for a week, since the teaching visa, although approved, isn't ready for some reason. he landed tonight in kix and was denied entry under the 'too many entries' excuse. they didn't tell him he has the option to appeal.

he's been messaging me from one of the free computers at a gate, i've told him to go back and demand they give him the appeal forms. and a translator. after that call someone who can get into his house and get the forms for his teaching visa that show approval and get them faxed to kix immigration.
and then to call the british consulate and let them know he was denied.

fuckers. i know they usually wait until the end of the month to panic about their catching their quota of suspect entrances, but they seem to be early this month.

[Greji]

fuckers. i know they usually wait until the end of the month to panic about their catching their quota of suspect entrances, but they seem to be early this month.

No, they'll probably let him go without much ado. You are just too much fun to continually strip search for them to let you go early....

[IkemenTommy]

What is wrong with you people entering the country with false visas?

[Iraira]

Shit, they must love me (or hate me) at both airport immigration and at the Shinagawa Immigration Hellhole. Never been detained for more than the "let's see your passport" and take your picture&prints at the airport, and they just sent me my "you're approved, bring us 4000 yen" new VISA postcard, 4 working days after I dropped off the "this application for VISA appears to be incomplete" application at Shinagawa.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

this is getting really fucked.

his appeal was denied, despite having the paperwork for his teaching visa. they told him he must book and show a ticket before they give him his passport back. it didn't matter where the ticket was, as long as the final destination is out of japan. so his parents booked him the quickest ticket they could find online to london...JAL kix-nrt-london. bought and paid for. THEN they tell him that they won't let him fly, because it's via narita, which is in japan.

so, we then got him a flight on turkish airlines at 22.30, kix-istanbul-london(this is ticket number two that we have bought today for him!). once they got the e-ticket number confirmation, they said fine, but they would not give him his passport back until the last minute at the departure gate when he boards.

3 hours before the flight, they decide that they will not let him fly because it's not a direct flight to england and no, he can't speak to the station manager of turkish airlines, because no immigration in the world will now accept him, even as a transfer. then they told him that he could apply for another appeal, took him downstairs, started the whole 'here's a paper, write your reasons again' and then said it will be reviewed on monday.

they won't let him speak to turkish airlines, but said that if the station manager from turkish airlines in istanbul says it's ok, that they should send a fax to the kansai station manager and they will consider. so as i'm looking up the number for turkish airlines istanbul station, i ask him to give me the kansai airport station fax number and the name of the station manager. in the background, i can hear the guy say, in english, 'here's the fax number, but we can't tell you the name of the station manager here. they will know in istanbul who they should write to here'.

he did call the british consulate last night, who gave him the 'well, we'll keep an eye on it, but we can't force japan to allow you in'. however, they are now treating this as a 'citizen held against will' case for not allowing him to board the flight to istanbul.

after ages on the phone to istanbul, they did send the fax, but whether they allowed him on the flight is unknown.

i think i may consider cancelling my trip in september.

[Tsuru]

Imagine if this happenes to a Japanese person in London

[Bucky]

So if he just said FUCK IT and clammed up and sat there, what would they do to him?

[wuchan]

this is getting really fucked.

his appeal was denied, despite having the paperwork for his teaching visa. they told him he must book and show a ticket before they give him his passport back. it didn't matter where the ticket was, as long as the final destination is out of japan. so his parents booked him the quickest ticket they could find online to london...JAL kix-nrt-london. bought and paid for. THEN they tell him that they won't let him fly, because it's via narita, which is in japan.

so, we then got him a flight on turkish airlines at 22.30, kix-istanbul-london(this is ticket number two that we have bought today for him!). once they got the e-ticket number confirmation, they said fine, but they would not give him his passport back until the last minute at the departure gate when he boards.

3 hours before the flight, they decide that they will not let him fly because it's not a direct flight to england and no, he can't speak to the station manager of turkish airlines, because no immigration in the world will now accept him, even as a transfer. then they told him that he could apply for another appeal, took him downstairs, started the whole 'here's a paper, write your reasons again' and then said it will be reviewed on monday.

they won't let him speak to turkish airlines, but said that if the station manager from turkish airlines in istanbul says it's ok, that they should send a fax to the kansai station manager and they will consider. so as i'm looking up the number for turkish airlines istanbul station, i ask him to give me the kansai airport station fax number and the name of the station manager. in the background, i can hear the guy say, in english, 'here's the fax number, but we can't tell you the name of the station manager here. they will know in istanbul who they should write to here'.

he did call the british consulate last night, who gave him the 'well, we'll keep an eye on it, but we can't force japan to allow you in'. however, they are now treating this as a 'citizen held against will' case for not allowing him to board the flight to istanbul.

after ages on the phone to istanbul, they did send the fax, but whether they allowed him on the flight is unknown.

i think i may consider cancelling my trip in september.

They can deny him entry, THEY CAN NOT HOLD HIS PASSPORT. Have him call the embassy and tell them that Japan took his passport preventing him from leaving the country,not letting him in is a different matter. Shit will get fixed real quick.

[Takechanpoo]

You gaijins should think that this is just a return for numerous evil deeds your fellows have ever done Japanese residents and tourists in your home countries.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

They can deny him entry, THEY CAN NOT HOLD HIS PASSPORT. Have him call the embassy and tell them that Japan took his passport preventing him from leaving the country,not letting him in is a different matter. Shit will get fixed real quick.

he was denied onto the turkish airlines flight because finding a station manager in istanbul airport is almost as difficult as it is for takeabigshit to find his dick in his shorts and the japanese station manager for turkish airlines is a coward to refused to give his name and then had gone home by the time we found it out.

the embassy has been less than helpful. he hasn't even been able to speak to anyone at the embassy or consulate in japan, they keep routing him to a number in the uk.

it's currently air macau who are holding his passport. because he flew in on them, they are trying to 'help' him leave, but they have been about as helpful as a rubber crutch in a hospital.

and of course he has asked 1000 times why are they not letting him just get on any flight out of japan regardless of where it is to, they kept giving him the 'no country will take you as transit passenger without special permission' i had to find out from a call centre guy at emirates airlines in dubai what the fuck the problem is.

apparently when someone is denied entry into a country, the airline and the departing airport are fined for 'not properly checking that the passenger has the correct documents and/or visas for the country they are visiting. which in this case is pretty retarded, as a british citizen, he does not require an advance visa to go to japan and how were they to know that japan randomly decides how much or how many times someone visits is too much? anyway, as is per usual, japan are now covering their asses, because if he gets onto a flight and transits somewhere and his passport and ticket don't match, then the transit airport would have to send him back to whereever he came from. which in this case, would be japan. so rather than be helpful and just make sure that his passport and the information completely match, they are freaking about about the possible fine and international notation in the black book of places with bad security procedures that kix/japan face should he get stuck in a transit city. so they don't want him in japan and they don't want him to go anywhere else that might embarrass japan.

emirates airlines have said no problem and he is booked on tomorrow night's flight out, and in fact are so irritated with the kix immigration and the number of their passengers that get harrassed, denied, detained that there is discussion of stopping their flights to japan completely. they've already stopped the dubai-nagoya route. soon JAL and ANA will be the only options in and out of the country, with the borders closed to everyone who doesn't apply for a visa 3 months in advance. and an official japanese 'yokoso' guide to accompany you everywhere and report back notes to the ministry on everything you do. kinda like the soviet union. then again, that makes sense, since when it comes to cultural and political advancing, japan just seems to go backwards while the rest of the world moves forward.

one last note...take, normally your idiocy is amusing, but you're really a much bigger ass than i thought. but it seems as if japan is finally learning from your big brother ancestors nearby...communist china. i bet you'll look great marching in step under a big red flag...

[Cyka UchuuJin]

So if he just said FUCK IT and clammed up and sat there, what would they do to him?

yeah, we were kinda joking early about him just setting up camp right there between gates 28 and 29 like that movie 'the terminal' and then rocking up to immigration 90 days later to give it another go.

after 40-odd hours sitting there though, he is really just wants to get the fuck out.

[wuchan]

One thing confuses me. Why can't he just go back to the UK? I'm sure his home country immigration would understand if he said Japan is fucking retarded. It sounds like Japan and the airline are fucking this poor guy to save face/money. He should raise hell as soon as he gets home. Fucking sue everyone involved and call CNN, FOX, NBC, the BBC, china news, and anyone else who may pick up the story.

[Mike Oxlong]

Shouldn't the fact that you can't hold someone's passport be drilled into the reservation agents, airport security, and anyone else who works there? That right there should be grounds for their immediate dismissal and rejection for future work in the biz!

[Mock Cockpit]

Sounds like they've decided your mate has tried to pull a fast one and in their bull shit passive aggressive way are fucking with him as much as possible. Cunts.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

One thing confuses me. Why can't he just go back to the UK? I'm sure his home country immigration would understand if he said Japan is fucking retarded. It sounds like Japan and the airline are fucking this poor guy to save face/money. He should raise hell as soon as he gets home. Fucking sue everyone involved and call CNN, FOX, NBC, the BBC, china news, and anyone else who may pick up the story.

there are no direct flights from KIX to the UK. i think it is now less japan that is fucking with him, as immigration now refuses to even see him, but air macau. oddly, they have not offered to put him back on a flight to macau and the 'help' they are giving is to try to put him on a cathay pacific flight to london via hk at the price of something like 500.000\. it's air macau that has his passport, and you've said, we think that they don't realise he knows his passport number by heart so they are keeping it so they can scramble to save face. he told them this morning that we've booked the emirates flight and would be talking to the emirates station manager (and provided the names of them) at 2 when they arrive, and they told him 'i don't think that is possible, sawa-san isn't station manager'. (she is on sundays, when nohara-san is off) i've told him to just stop talking to them altogether, because dubai already has his passport information and i'm going to call emirates osaka myself, since i know them well and they were the ones that dealt with my detention last year.

but yes, plans to make this very well known to the media when he gets home will happen. at the moment, he's going on 48 hours of sitting there and he's too tired to think past getting on the plane tonight.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Shouldn't the fact that you can't hold someone's passport be drilled into the reservation agents, airport security, and anyone else who works there? That right there should be grounds for their immediate dismissal and rejection for future work in the biz!

yes, it should be. but for the moment, until i can talk to emirates osaka before the air macau people stick their noses in again, he isn't speaking to anyone. once emirates clears it, we'll ask them to go get his passport from these chinese air macaus fucks themselves.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Sounds like they've decided your mate has tried to pull a fast one and in their bull shit passive aggressive way are fucking with him as much as possible. Cunts.

they most certainly are. kix is closed between 1-5am, and he went and turned off the blaring loud tv near the bench he was told he could sleep on. as soon as he did, security came and turned it on again. and every time he fell asleep for a few minutes, they'd come ask him why he was still there.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

have now learned a bit more of the whole 'what happens when someone is denied entry into japan' malarky (courtesy of emirates osaka staff...who are trained in dubai)

if the denied passenger is not a transit passenger or holds an onward ticket, they become 'invisible' (exact word used) to japan. which means that it is on the passenger him/herself to find an airline to accept you for travel if it's not a direct flight to the country of citizenship.

considering that there are no direct flights to the uk from kix, and the only transfer/service desk in the transit area there is the JAL desk and all the other airlines are on the other side of passport control/customs...basically it's just another one big japanese clusterfuck of shutting their eyes and hoping it all goes away.

[Coligny]

Maybe I'm wrong... But, fuck kix->London as a British citizen he can land anywhere in europe and call it home. Should'nt Brussell be involved a little more in this ?

[Samurai_Jerk]

he was on that year long 'working holiday' visa and has a teaching visa that is approved , but he hasn't had it put into his passport yet. the working holiday was about to expire, so he went off to macau for a week, since the teaching visa, although approved, isn't ready for some reason. he landed tonight in kix and was denied entry under the 'too many entries' excuse.

I feel bad for your friend but he should have known better than to do that. Whenever you're in the process of applying for a visa in any country it's best to stay put till everything clears.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

I feel bad for your friend but he should have known better than to do that. Whenever you're in the process of applying for a visa in any country it's best to stay put till everything clears.

that lesson is obviously learned. but it's more the treatment after the denial that is beyond ridiculous.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Maybe I'm wrong... But, fuck kix->London as a British citizen he can land anywhere in europe and call it home. Should'nt Brussell be involved a little more in this ?

yes, that is true. however, because they made him sign a form in japanese that says he acknowledges he is being denied and is now considered 'invisible' by japan, none of the airlines flying out of kansai would accept him for travel because it now seems like he came from nowhere.

emirates, however, have accepted him and he's flying out tonight at 23.00.

[waruta]

Damn. If only they would let him come in on a visitor visa, then leave to HK or somwhere close and cheap to clear up this clusterfuck of a visa mess....These Japanese immigration guys are almost as bad as the DHS in the US who treat everyone from a expired visa to red-flagged passengers the same, put them all in the same room and send them back at earliest possible convenience....

What the Japanese are calling "invisible" is probably because of the "no-mans land" rule where they have not stamped his passport and technically he is not in Japan, so there is no legal recourse or help that can be provided until they

A) decide to accept him on some kind of visa/stamp the damn passport

B) send him back to wherever

Good luck with this. Had the same thing happen once in a different country. And yes, it truly sucked. I wish I worked for immigration when those effing DHS guys tried to take a vacation in Japan.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Damn. If only they would let him come in on a visitor visa, then leave to HK or somwhere close and cheap to clear up this clusterfuck of a visa mess....These Japanese immigration guys are almost as bad as the DHS in the US who treat everyone from a expired visa to red-flagged passengers the same, put them all in the same room and send them back at earliest possible convenience....

What the Japanese are calling "invisible" is probably because of the "no-mans land" rule where they have not stamped his passport and technically he is not in Japan, so there is no legal recourse or help that can be provided until they

A) decide to accept him on some kind of visa/stamp the damn passport

B) send him back to wherever

Good luck with this. Had the same thing happen once in a different country. And yes, it truly sucked. I wish I worked for immigration when those effing DHS guys tried to take a vacation in Japan.

if he had signed only the 'acknowledgement of denial', then he could have left his passport with immigration and asked for another appeal which would have been heard tomorrow. then in the meantime, it would have been possible to put him on any flight out of japan to anywhere. if he had done that though, immigration would have turned over the passport to the airline and it would have been recorded as him giving up and if you do that, then it's automatically one year before you can attempt reentry. but because he signed also this other form accepting that he is not attempting another appeal and is now officially 'invisible', they turned the passport over to air macau and as far as immigration was concerned, their hands were washed of him. he even asked at one point to go back and speak to immigration and was told he can't (but it was only after emirates explained to me about this 'invisible' thing that we understood why immigration was refusing to speak to him anymore.

because air macau is now receiving a fine for having a passenger who has been denied, they tried to cover their asses/save face by claiming to help him find another flight, but they really were useless. and because it's a little chinese airline, they don't have any connecting flights to europe. they were very surprised when he told them this morning that we'd booked emirates and were just awaiting approval and tried their best to come up with excuses to prevent him from talking to anyone from emirates. fortunately the emirates representative went to immigration and air macau to find out the situation and within an hour, emirates had taken possession of his passport and gave it back to him, then proceeded with issuing the ticket

anyway, he flies in 2 hours. by the time he departs, he'll have spent 56 hours in kix. another amazing example of the contradictions, rudeness, and ignorance of japanese immigration (which brings another thought...air traffic controllers and pilots both have to take english tests for their job. why don't immigration officers have to? or be required to have a translator on site?). and yet another big FAIL for the Yokoso! campaign.

[Mike Oxlong]

Get the story to the Olympic site selection committee...what's the use in taking it, if you can't give some back!

[omae mona]

Get the story to the Olympic site selection committee...what's the use in taking it, if you can't give some back!

This is the wrong anecdote to send to the Olympic guys. While I truly feel sorry for Cyka's friend (he got completely screwed), he did put himself into a highly risky situation as Samurai_Jerk correctly pointed out. He was not a regular visitor to Japan if I understand Cyka's story correctly. It sounds like something went wrong with his visa processing for extending his residence in Japan, so he tried to leave and come back into the country on a visitor visa while he waited for the processing to finish. This did not fool immigration, and it was a pretty bad idea (not that that justifies immigration's complete botching of the situation and making it worse than it needed to be).

The Olympic folks may be concerned about how regular tourists are treated, but this particular chain of events would not have happened to a tourist. Legitimate tourists get screwed by J-Immigration in entirely different ways

[omae mona]

Jhe was on that year long 'working holiday' visa and has a teaching visa that is approved , but he hasn't had it put into his passport yet. the working holiday was about to expire, so he went off to macau for a week, since the teaching visa, although approved, isn't ready for some reason. he landed tonight in kix and was denied entry under the 'too many entries' excuse.

Cyka, I am really curious about this (because I want to make sure nothing like this ever happens to me or my friends!!). Can you clarify? Usually the "too many entries" excuse is about people on tourist visas. So something doesn't quite make sense about your story. Are you sure the details are correct? Is it possible that his working holiday visa actually expired already and he was trying to enter on a tourist visa? Or maybe he did not have a re-entry permit? Or maybe the WH visa was very close to expiration and they wanted proof of a planned return trip before the expiration date?

I can't imagine how "too many entries" would even be relevant for somebody on a valid working holiday visa with a proper reentry permit.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Cyka, I am really curious about this (because I want to make sure nothing like this ever happens to me or my friends!!). Can you clarify? Usually the "too many entries" excuse is about people on tourist visas. So something doesn't quite make sense about your story. Are you sure the details are correct? Is it possible that his working holiday visa actually expired already and he was trying to enter on a tourist visa? Or maybe he did not have a re-entry permit? Or maybe the WH visa was very close to expiration and they wanted proof of a planned return trip before the expiration date?

I can't imagine how "too many entries" would even be relevant for somebody on a valid working holiday visa with a proper reentry permit.

his working holiday visa did expire some time back and his last two entries were on temporary visitor while looking for a teaching job. he had found a job last month, and the employer had submitted the paperwork to have the teaching visa processed and it was approved very recently. i believe they told him to go this week to go have the visa put in, but because his temporary visitor permit was nearing expiry, he decided to go out of the country for a few days and come back. several things went wrong here. one is that when they asked him whose is the address on the landing card, he told them it was his. and two, i'm sure it came up that he was originally on working holiday that is now expired and he's got a 6 month gap between that and the approval of the teaching visa.

getting him a flight out was another tricky bit because he flew in without a return ticket and once he signed that acknowledgment of becoming 'invisible', no one wanted to allow him onto their flight.

so obviously, as said by someone else, regular tourists don't have this happen, they just get screwed in other ways. since i no longer live there, when i go back there now, i tick the 'tourist' box, but i am usually with my other half, who ticks 'business', and they know that we are together, and look at me as just the girlfriend tagging along.

anyway, there's no question that he should have gotten a teaching visa much earlier or applied for another working holiday one, or whatever. it's clear that immigration are closing the window of opportunity for visa runs. that's understood. and i'm not defending that he should have known better, etc.

it's now more an issue of what happened after they denied him entry and the treatment he was given. honestly, if i didn't know anyone in emirates osaka, this could have gone on for much longer. both JAL and Turkish refused him onto their flights. we had a reservation for Qatar Air, but they would have insisted that approval come from a station manager in Doha. KLM and Lufthansa outright said no. even air macau, which he flew in on, said they would not let him get on a flight back to macau.

with the 'regular tourists' who come to japan though, it's not always cut and dry there either. the japanese ministry of justice in nairobi issues visas regularly to kenyans to go to japan for tourism, business, government relations, and athletic competitions. i am aware of several cases where the person arrived in kix with their visa and were denied entry for issues ranging from 'your passport isn't valid for a year' to 'we don't believe you are the attending TICAD' and they're turned away. and i'm sure that this happens to just about every country that japan requires advance visa applications on. so it really does come down to the officer at the desk when you walk up to immigration.

but i think before japan does any more of this 'yokoso!' advertising, they need to get their shit together in a lot of ways. first of all, either immigration and customs officers need to pass some kind of basic english test, or have a translator available at all times. if someone is denied entry, they should have translated into 5 or 6 major languages any forms that they make people sign, along with information about what their rights are regarding appeal, procedure of how to book a filght out if they don't have a return ticket, and have a transit area for people who are in this kind of situation, as well as one for passengers in transit who have missed flights or have extended layovers. just about every airport in the world i've been in has an area for this where they provide at least a basic meal and somewhere to lie down. kansai has nothing like this. the only food option is buying food from the cafes or shops, but if you've come in with only foreign currency and a foreign credit card, you are pretty screwed.

the treatment of people who are denied entry borders on human rights violations. airport police harrass people about what they're doing in the airport without a passport when they damn well know that it's downstairs in immigration. they deny people sleep because they tell them they can't lie down in a public place. they intimidate people into signing forms without explaining what they are. the person in question, on the second day (after having had no sleep) when he asked to speak to immigration again, they took him into an office and made him stand there for 20 minutes. when he tried to sit down on the bench the officer told him not to sit down.

i'm not sure who the yokoso! campaign is aimed at, but i think it's failing miserably. every time i arrive, there are loads of people who stand completely dumbfounded at the train station at kix, having no idea where to go. there isn't even a sign indicating the nankai rapito is the kix-city express, just one window with a little tablet sign saying 'rapito' with the next available train.

i'm getting into new topic thread territory, so i digress. kix immigration is seriously flawed and regardless of what a person has done 'wrong' (aside from something with criminal intent perhaps), there is no justification for what they've done to this person over the last 56 hours.

[Mike Oxlong]

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[Coligny]

anyway, he flies in 2 hours. by the time he departs, he'll have spent 56 hours in kix. another amazing example of the contradictions, rudeness, and ignorance of japanese immigration (which brings another thought...air traffic controllers and pilots both have to take english tests for their job. why don't immigration officers have to? or be required to have a translator on site?). and yet another big FAIL for the Yokoso! campaign.

And they have quite a reputation... a bad one... (can't find the link anymore but their level is way below 'engrish')