Single, no-kids: Party-on Japan!

[Taro Toporific]

Single, childless Japan emerging
Wednesday, July 16, 2003 Posted: 1113 GMT
TOKYO, Japan (CNN) -- If you go to a single party in a fashionable part of Tokyo on any given day, you will see successful young professionals who love good food, wine and company. . .
... stay single because Japanese women have changed while the men and the surrounding social structure have not. One might argue over reasons, but the fact is demographers expect the number of single, childless Japan will only keep on growing.

[Jack]

One observation I have is that many Japanese girls go to university and when they graduate they end up doing menial jobs. I wonder why they go through the motions just to get a degree that they will not use. Almost every Japanese girl that I met were doing somekind of a test or were studying for something. TOEC, TOFEL, ESL, Spanish, French, you name it. They just can't stay still and relax. I think this mentality has a lot to do with the reason why many choose to stay single. They feel they have to move because they can't stay still, they want to achieve something in life even if it is only in their imagination. The problem is just because they are moving they think they are getting somewhere.

This is why Japanese men in their 30s are still single. They can't find a girl who will fill a traditional wife's role. All the chicks are out there banging foreign guys.

[Taro Toporific]

One observation ... Almost every Japanese girl that I met were doing somekind of a test or were studying for something. TOEC, TOFEL, ESL, Spanish, French, you name it. They just can't stay still and relax. I think this mentality has a lot to do with the reason why many choose to stay single. They feel they have to move because they can't stay still, they want to achieve something in life even if it is only in their imagination...

The japanese love of useless licences, certificates, menkyo-bakaness is fairly wacked, ain't it?

Traditionally the more menkyo a girl has collected, the better her omiyai marriage prospects are.. . . hence, useless ikebana, ongaku silliness, and "paper-drivers".

[Alcazar]

One observation I have is that many Japanese girls go to university and when they graduate they end up doing menial jobs. I wonder why they go through the motions just to get a degree that they will not use. Almost every Japanese girl that I met were doing somekind of a test or were studying for something. TOEC, TOFEL, ESL, Spanish, French, you name it.

That's interesting, when I stayed in Japan with a host family, my host sister was about to go to university and I asked her what she was going to study. She said 'German'. I asked her why was she going to simply going to study the German language, and how would that help her in a career. She didn't have an answer and it puzzled me.

But you say that lots of Japanese girls do this? Your're right, they are just going through the motions if they never use their education. I wonder if they feel unfulfilled? I wonder if any thought at all registers..........



Alcazar

[Jack]

A friend of mine in the western part of Japan just got a nice retirement package from her employer, something like the equivalent of $100,000 and she is only 30 years old. She has been off work for a while and not yet married. She just sent me an e-mail saying that she is thinking of going to the States to study. I picked up the phone and called her and I asked her study what? She replied... ready for this? She said "wakaranai".

Yes, she is still doing her TOEC every other month to get her score higher and higher. That's after having done TOEFL.

[Crispy]

Yeah, I saw that in my classmates both in Japan and the exchange students at my home school. Women studying relatively hard (or not) in political science, international relations, English, and such, and who either have no idea what they plan to do afterwards, or plan to either marry and not work or take over the family business. In America, people get college educations so they can use them to make money, but for women in Japan anyway, that doesn't seem to be the case always. All those college educated housewives...

[Taro Toporific]

... Almost every Japanese girl that I met were doing somekind of a test or were studying for something. TOEC, TOFEL, ESL, Spanish, French, you name it.

Honey, this guy on the FG wonders why are you are studying for an IT certificate as well as o-koto, Italian, and jazz dance?

"It's fun." she chirps back as she finishes making my ai bento.

[Captain Japan]

Yeah, I saw that in my classmates both in Japan and the exchange students at my home school. Women studying relatively hard (or not) in political science, international relations, English, and such, and who either have no idea what they plan to do afterwards, or plan to either marry and not work or take over the family business. In America, people get college educations so they can use them to make money, but for women in Japan anyway, that doesn't seem to be the case always. All those college educated housewives...

I've always thought this sort thing was just something that people can talk about. Given that emphasizing being tired and busy is extremely important, these programs/classes/activities are perfect for that. The functionality of it all doesn't even hit the radar. Who needs a reason to do anything? People just do. Just collect the graduation certificate at the end as evidence of a job well done. That's all that matters. It sort of reminds me of how I collected baseball cards as kid. It gave me something to talk about with my friends.

[Neo-Rio]

It's totally this sort of thing which gives many gaijin their English teaching jobs.

My take on it is, that people are just bored or lonely... ESPECIALLY the women. So it makes sense to study all these things, even if they never use the skills, just to meet people and get attention.

Shit, I'd go back to university just to study some nonsense just so I could like the university life again.

[Taro Toporific]

The functionality of it all doesn't even hit the radar. Who needs a reason to do anything? People just do.

Do ya mean like writing for free on the FG Forum and Internet when ya should be paid for it? YES! Ok, I demand compensation for 2,500+ posts. <boot to the head>

[Shibuya Me]

I am not really sure that all these Japanese women are " Banging Foreign Guys " ...not me anyway! And I'm damn good looking! ( American Joke!)

As mentioned before, I work at an employment agency...and about 98.5% of all the Japanese girls I ask..." So...what kind of a position would you like have in your new career? " is answered in this way:

" I don't know."



Regarding Japanese girls remaining single...I am told by many Japanese girls...that they "do not" like Japanese guys. I am talking about the girls who lived abroad for a spell... the girls who lived over-seas.

I guess they find out how "kind" we foreigners are to our women. I cherish my girl for life! Some Japanese guys seem to take Japanese girls for granted.

Just my limited opinion. Don't blast me for it....

[Neo-Rio]

As mentioned before, I work at an employment agency...and about 98.5% of all the Japanese girls I ask..." So...what kind of a position would you like have in your new career? " is answered in this way:
" I don't know."

Regarding Japanese girls remaining single...I am told by many Japanese girls...that they "do not" like Japanese guys. I am talking about the girls who lived abroad for a spell... the girls who lived over-seas.

Yeah, a woman capable of independant thinking is something to be cherished alright, here in Japan. They are few and far between. Most Japanese guys seem to scoff at the idea though. My lady is one of those Japanese women, and she is a freak by Japanese standards. She met some Japanese guys I work with, and they think she is "sugoi", but keep asking me if we fight very much because she seems very headstrong. They are surprised when I say "no".

[Shibuya Me]

Yep!

My wife is a freak by Japanese standards also. She has a thought and...now get this...an opinion when-ever she wants!

Glad to be married to a freaky J-girl than the alternative.

At least we can watch Alley McBeal together!

Move over seas girls! You'll love what it does for you!

[gkanai]

The whole gender divide in Japan is actually very interesting for many reasons.

I explored this issue of the status of women in Japana bit on my weblog.

- Japanese women are increasingly more highly educated (more 4 year college grads than 2 year college grads) and therefore increasingly more capable
- Japanese women are waiting longer to get married
- Japanese women are waiting longer to have children
- Japanese women are having fewer children when they do
- There are fewer options for child care in Japan and fewer fulfilling job opportunities for women after they leave the workforce to have children; so many women put off marriage and having children
- Japanese men are spending more time at work - increasing the need for the wife in a Japanese marriage to stay home with the children
- Japanese women still face very significant gender prejudice in Japanese business and there are few women in prominent executive positions in Japanese companies (I can definitely say this from personal experience in 2 of Japan's most prominent companies.)

[Crispy]

Sucks that it comes down to a decision between marriage and working. But, do women in executive positions in companies exist? How many of them are there?

[Taro Toporific]

Sucks that it comes down to a decision between marriage and working. But, do women in executive positions in companies exist? How many of them are there?

Sure.
Women bucho are possible...maybe 5% of all the managers here at Maybe-the-Largest-in-Japan Inc are women. Marvin and I both work with women bucho in our traditional Japanese companies.

[GomiGirl]

Just had a conversation on this subject with my late-30-something female accountant.

She is just not interested in dating anymore as the guys she meets are all immature and weak. She has little respect for the average Japanese guy and would rather hang out with her friends (mixed group) on the weekends at BBQ's. dinner parties or doing things like scuba diving or skiing.. She is a prime example of the single independant childless J-woman who is certainly not desperate to have a man. But if a good one came along that might be another story..

The conversation started over a discussion about the girls being handcuffed and the sad creeps who have this unhealthy lolita complex. She thought that the education system and Japanese culture was poor and left men illequiped to deal with women their own age and with real-life issues. She commented that manga had fried their brains.

Just another vox-pop from the desk of GG...

(a foreign female bucho/fukushacho)

[ramchop]

She has little respect for the average Japanese guy and would rather hang out with her friends (mixed group)

Superiority complex?

And why aren't the above average Japanese guys interested in her?

[mercutio]

Just another vox-pop from the desk of GG...

(a foreign female bucho/fukushacho)

Oh yeah Baby! I love it when you talk dirty... now get in the frickin' Sailor Moon outfit!

[GomiGirl]

And why aren't the above average Japanese guys interested in her?

I guess they are.. she just doesn't date very often. She is not lonely or desperate was the point I was trying to make.

She doesn't think she is better than everybody.. she is just disappointed in the immaturity level out there..

[GomiGirl]

Just another vox-pop from the desk of GG...

(a foreign female bucho/fukushacho)

Oh yeah Baby! I love it when you talk dirty... now get in the frickin' Sailor Moon outfit!

Incorrigible.. next time I find you wandering the streets of Tokyo I will give you the wrong directions.. BTW did you find the shop yesterday?

To explain - I accidently ran into Mercutio in the back streets of Tokyo yesterday afternoon. His new digs are near my office. Small world!!

[ramchop]

I guess they are.. she just doesn't date very often. She is not lonely or desperate was the point I was trying to make.

She doesn't think she is better than everybody.. she is just disappointed in the immaturity level out there..

Men are immature, tell her to get used to the idea. :P

[Captain Japan]

Just had a conversation on this subject with my late-30-something female accountant...

The conversation started over a discussion about the girls being handcuffed and the sad creeps who have this unhealthy lolita complex. She thought that the education system and Japanese culture was poor and left men illequiped to deal with women their own age and with real-life issues. She commented that manga had fried their brains.

I suppose this is genearlly the case with regards to men]
(a foreign female bucho/fukushacho)[/quote]

Lucky company president? ...Man, I got to study more Japanese.

[GomiGirl]

Your friend, to me, seems unique in that she cares about what is going on. I don't know that this is the case with all women in Japan.

I guess she is a bit older and a bit wiser than most. But I think that was the gist of the original thread in that there are many more women like her and as they reach 40 they will be more obvious as being unmarried and thus seen as "failures as women" to many traditionalists.

But at nearly 40 and childless I think she is starting to look at things more closely.

She likes working for me I think.. I hope... She is great at what she does and can handle the dopey engineers better than I can. But she knows that job oportunites for someone like her are limited in Japan. I pay her what she is worth - actually she is worth her weight in gold, but I can't pay that - and at a different company she would get paid less than a guy with the same age and experience especially if the guy was married and has to support a family.

Equal pay for equal work!!

[mercutio]

Incorrigible.. next time I find you wandering the streets of Tokyo I will give you the wrong directions.. BTW did you find the shop yesterday?

Yeah I found the shop you suggested but they said they were out of toy handcuffs and had no idea where to find a charcoal burner

[GomiGirl]

Incorrigible.. next time I find you wandering the streets of Tokyo I will give you the wrong directions.. BTW did you find the shop yesterday?

Yeah I found the shop you suggested but they said they were out of toy handcuffs and had no idea where to find a charcoal burner

But you managed to find the spandex hip huggers you were after?

I have a few cases of the handcuffs that I have squirreled away for a rainy day. I can let you have a few pairs if you like? How many are you needing?

[mercutio]

But you managed to find the spandex hip huggers you were after?

I have a few cases of the handcuffs that I have squirreled away for a rainy day. I can let you have a few pairs if you like? How many are you needing?

4 pairs should do the trick...oh and i need some manga too

spandex hiphiggers? nah, actually I decided to go with the buttless chaps and feather boa to wear to the next gathering....i wanna wear something special for Gai

[Crispy]

[gkanai]

Thread derailers!!

While I am not an unmarried female in my late 30s or early 40s, I would think that women in such a situation would either leave the country to travel or explore or find a husband somewhere else (unless they are tied to taking care of mom/dad, which is often the case.)

The fact that these women didnt settle for the same old unsatisfying marriage says quite a lot, to me. However, the stigma attached to being unmarried is still quite strong.

Gen

[GomiGirl]

The stigma of an unmarried female is not just in Japan but around the world.

However, being unmarried is not the end of the world and I think some people are recognising this. I just wish I could get my mother to stop trying to set me up with "nice guys" bleech..