Car Crash

[Behan]

Interesting point, but let me expand on that a bit more...
As a daily Auto Commuter. I think the real problem overall the way people drive in this country. Take the trucks for instance. They usually go 20~25 km over the speed limit and always either tailgate or narrowly broad-side you. These guys are total bullies and drive these trucks as if they are competing in some F1 event!
The other thing is that on narrow highways for some reason if there is a blind spot or a curve where you can't see beyond, people here just fly into them as if THEY are the ones that own the road, I have had quite a few near misses! ...

I just can't get over the disregard for safety and aggressive driving here, either.

Truck drivers can be scary as hell when they tailgate you and I'm sure they are enjoying it, too. I drive a van now and never want to go back to driving a small or kei car.

There's a fourway stop near my house and for some reason the cars coming from one direction seem to think they have right of way and keep going through. After I get frustrated enough I just pull out and cut one of them cutting me off.

And riding a bicycle here is like letting car drivers take your life into their hands. Some people will run you off the road.

[xenomorph42]

I just can't get over the disregard for safety and aggressive driving here, either.

Truck drivers can be scary as hell when they tailgate you and I'm sure they are enjoying it, too. I drive a van now and never want to go back to driving a small or kei car.

There's a fourway stop near my house and for some reason the cars coming from one direction seem to think they have right of way and keep going through. After I get frustrated enough I just pull out and cut one of them cutting me off.

And riding a bicycle here is like letting car drivers take your life into their hands. Some people will run you off the road.

I guess it could all be much worse!:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31ZFbjVcZKE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQvqNO9Rr-w

[Gilligan]

The two things that absolutely piss me off the most about Japanese drivers is the obsessive tailgaiting, especially on the expressway (and I'm NOT just talking about trucks), and how they're always making 2 lanes for right hand turns when there should really only be one.

As for going through red lights, for me that was most noticeable in Kyoto, so I've always put it down to the result of disregarding natural traffic flow when deciding on the timing and sequence of traffic lights.

On the other hand, I've always felt that people use blinkers a hell of a lot more here in Japan than anyone living in the northeast of the US does. And they're a lot more responsive to them as well--for example, in Massachusetts, if you need to switch lanes on a crowded expressway the absolute last thing you want to do is put on your blinker because that just signals to the guy behind you in the lane you want to move into that he should speed up. Here, however, people are, more often than not in my experience, happy to make space for you.

[Behan]

On the other hand, I've always felt that people use blinkers a hell of a lot more here in Japan than anyone living in the northeast of the US does. And they're a lot more responsive to them as well--for example, in Massachusetts, if you need to switch lanes on a crowded expressway the absolute last thing you want to do is put on your blinker because that just signals to the guy behind you in the lane you want to move into that he should speed up. Here, however, people are, more often than not in my experience, happy to make space for you.

US drivers have a lot of room for improvement, too. In the country they aren't so used to having cyclists on the road and will blow by you just inches away. In my experience, anyway.

[wuchan]

The two things that absolutely piss me off the most about Japanese drivers is the obsessive tailgaiting, especially on the expressway (and I'm NOT just talking about trucks), and how they're always making 2 lanes for right hand turns when there should really only be one.

As for going through red lights, for me that was most noticeable in Kyoto, so I've always put it down to the result of disregarding natural traffic flow when deciding on the timing and sequence of traffic lights.

On the other hand, I've always felt that people use blinkers a hell of a lot more here in Japan than anyone living in the northeast of the US does. And they're a lot more responsive to them as well--for example, in Massachusetts, if you need to switch lanes on a crowded expressway the absolute last thing you want to do is put on your blinker because that just signals to the guy behind you in the lane you want to move into that he should speed up. Here, however, people are, more often than not in my experience, happy to make space for you.

I saw a cop car take a right onto a four lane road, turn into the farthest lane and then signal into the passing lane. My first thought was WTF??? Then I remembered TIJ.

Back home the locals have developed a technique for changing lanes which is commonly seen on the pike inside the 95 toll. Keep your finger on the signal stick, that way when you change lanes you put out one flash just before you switch. Staties cant pull you over for failing to signal (well there isn't too many places for them to pull you over on the end of the pike).

[Mike Oxlong]

It's weird...I've been tailgated on long stretches of empty country road, where all that the car behind me needed to do was pull out and pass. Not a lot of traffic to keep them from getting by. Rode the brakes hard to a standstill once, and got out the car to have a chat with the other driver, and a carload of young goons finally passed and sped away without so much as a goodbye...

[CrankyBastard]

Here, however, people are, more often than not in my experience, happy to make space for you.

I like the 'Arigato' twin blinks that most commercial vehicle drivers give when you've let them into the space in front of you.

[sublight]

Maybe it's because I grew up in Boston, but the drivers in Tokyo don't seem that bad. Granted, as a cyclist I stay off the highways, and on Tokyo streets it's impossible for anyone to go more than 40kph.

I agree the trucks are the worst. There have been plenty of times when one of them has just barely been going faster than me, and the moment their cab is past me they immediately pull into my lane and try to smear me against the parked cars.

xenomorph's also right about the blind turns. I was riding down a winding mountain (ok, really steep hill) road in Chiba last week and almost got nailed by a Nissan Cube coming up straddling the center line. Had I been in the center of my lane and not hugging the left side, I would have been creamed. Had I been a truck, he would have been creamed.

[Mulboyne]

I don't drive much in Japan so I can't comment authoritatively on the experience. However, counting up the serious traffic accidents I've heard my foreign friends have been involved, two were definitely the fault of Japanese drivers - both taxis - while the other fifteen were down to the gaijin. Some were very bad but no fatalities. The only traffic death I know personally is a Japanese barman who was taken out while riding his motorbike.

That's such a small subset that it doesn't mean much. However, you could argue that Japanese drivers might be bad but if they are all bad in the same way then it's the "good driver" who is more at risk if he isn't attuned to the rhythm of everybody else.

I'd be interested to know how to analyze traffic accident data. Mike O gave us a raw comparison between Japan and the US which shows Japan in a better light. FG Lurker points out that average journey lengths are greater in the US which might favour US safety. It might be better to try to look just at city journeys in places like London, New York, Tokyo and Paris where the length is possibly more comparable to see how that compares.

[FG Lurker]

I'd be interested to know how to analyze traffic accident data. Mike O gave us a raw comparison between Japan and the US which shows Japan in a better light. FG Lurker points out that average journey lengths are greater in the US which might favour US safety. It might be better to try to look just at city journeys in places like London, New York, Tokyo and Paris where the length is possibly more comparable to see how that compares.

I don't think I wrote my last post all that clearly. It's not the average trip distance, it's the total km driven per year. In other words, it's not "population/accidents" that matters, it's "total km driven/accidents" that matters. If memory serves (and these days it often doesn't!) the average US driver drives roughly double the distance in a year of the average Japanese driver. This puts the accident per km driven rate in Japan at somewhere approaching double that of the US.

I doubt there are any figures that break down what sort of driver causes accidents but I would bet that if you removed taxis and the "I drive once a month" people from the accident totals that the Japanese "accidents per km driven" figures would be quite close to those of the US.

That's such a small subset that it doesn't mean much. However, you could argue that Japanese drivers might be bad but if they are all bad in the same way then it's the "good driver" who is more at risk if he isn't attuned to the rhythm of everybody else.

Quoting out of order from your post, but I agree with this and I think it is similar to what I wrote in the paragraph above -- the people who cause the most accidents are the ones that don't follow the same rules as everyone else.

[Mike Oxlong]

Even traveling across Canada one has to adapt to different driving styles - your BC drivers and your Quebec drivers are not the same animal.

[Grumblebum]

That's such a small subset that it doesn't mean much. However, you could argue that Japanese drivers might be bad but if they are all bad in the same way then it's the "good driver" who is more at risk if he isn't attuned to the rhythm of everybody else.

This is what I'm very tempted to believe, based on my own observations driving here - Japanese drivers all expect the same bad habits from each other.
I see it all the time:
- drivers who turn in front of oncoming traffic assuming that they will slow down/stop for them.
- (my personal favourite) drivers who do right hand turns without waiting for cars from the opposite direction doing left hand turns into the same road - basically forcing themselves in and assuming the other car will give way to them. And of course blocking through traffic if the left-turn driver doesn't let them in.
- drivers wanting to turn right coming out of a car park or similar who, rather than wait for traffic to clear both ways, drive out and sit at the divider blocking one direction of traffic while waiting for the other to clear.

The fundamental philosophy seems to be:

Do whatever you like, other drivers will make allowances. If you flash your hazard lights after the fact all is forgiven.

[xenomorph42]

[quote="Mulboyne"]

That's such a small subset that it doesn't mean much. However, you could argue that Japanese drivers might be bad but if they are all bad in the same way then it's the "good driver" who is more at risk if he isn't attuned to the rhythm of everybody else.

That is a perfect analogy! That is the reason why I feel that I need to be more careful, because I am a cautious driver. But in Japan, as a driver, you really get stressed out. Cars, crazy taxi drivers, speeding trucks. People on bikes, (most irresponsible people), kids popping in and out of street corners. Cars parked everywhere. I think the only good thing is, if you are parking your car, some places where the lots are full, Japanese tend to make their own temp. parking spots, anywhere there is flat land or space, which can be quite beneficial sometimes.

[Kuang_Grade]

I think that Lurk is right that 'X events per X distance driven' is the way to look at that this, esp if one is trying to figure out on a national or international level since that should smooth out a fair number of issues, although not all, such as age cohorts, where one country with many more new/young drivers might have significantly more accidents vs another country with more older drivers as well. Similarly a Johns Hopkins study on the US a few years back that pointed out that women had more accidents per mile than men, but then had to point out that while this was factually true, it didn't really tell the full story since the accidents than men got into tended to be more serious/fatal than those that women got into
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980618032130.htm

Also internationally, it gets a bit harder to mix and match countries data given the different ways/definitions and different agencies (with different agendas) collect the data, and it seems that alot of the international data focuses on death rates, since that's an event that pretty much everyone can agree upon a standard definition. But even this can be influenced by factors like traffic laws/ enforcement of drunk driving laws, and car safety regs (for example, many J mini cars wouldn't likely pass US crash standards).

While I don't have much advice on how to look at it, I can suggest these sites to look at some of the data they've collected and how they slice it

IRTAD
http://internationaltransportforum.org/jtrc/index.html

US National highway traffic safety admin (US gov)
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.a0bd5d5a23d09ec24ec86e10dba046a0/

Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (funded by US insurance companies)
http://www.iihs.org/research/default.html

[BigInJapan]

Even traveling across Canada one has to adapt to different driving styles - your BC drivers and your Quebec drivers are not the same animal.

I concur. Growing up in BC, I can't count the number of times I heard "Jesus H Christ, it's another one of those #@%&! Alberta drivers!".
But they all pales in comparison to any old fart in a kei-tora cruising around in the inaka here...

[Mock Cockpit]

Driving isn't dangerous in Japan simply because most of the time you're not going fast enough to get yourself into serious trouble and the cars are all in good condition. Mostly, driving here is an exercise in frustration.

[omae mona]

I have found drivers in Tokyo to be safer and more courteous than drivers in some faster-paced US cities (New York in particular). Not sure where the rest of y'all are coming from, but Tokyo driving is pretty calm from my point of view. The problem in Tokyo is obstacles: narrow roads, parked cars, etcetera.

Incidentally, I think the fatality statistics for Japan are artificially deflated. If I recall (I will try to find a source), the NPA does not consider it a traffic fatality if the victim does not die very soon after the accident. For example, if they linger for a few days on life support and then die, it does not count as a traffic fatality. But don't quote me on this until I come back with a reference.

[Behan]

I have found drivers in Tokyo to be safer and more courteous than drivers in some faster-paced US cities (New York in particular). Not sure where the rest of y'all are coming from, but Tokyo driving is pretty calm from my point of view. The problem in Tokyo is obstacles: narrow roads, parked cars, etcetera.

I think driving on the Metropolitan Highway is pure terror. The roads are too narrow, people go to fast, and don't leave enough space between cars.

The first time I rode a motorcycle on it some guy in a car passed me inside my own lane while we were in a tunnel.

But perhaps it's road conditions coupled with aggressive, selfish, and careless drivers that makes driving here so dangerous.

But I won't argue about New York with you since I have only driven there once. I could easily believe metropolitan drivers back home are as bad if not worse.

[Ketou]

I have found drivers in Tokyo to be safer and more courteous than drivers in some faster-paced US cities (New York in particular). Not sure where the rest of y'all are coming from, but Tokyo driving is pretty calm from my point of view. The problem in Tokyo is obstacles: narrow roads, parked cars, etcetera.

Incidentally, I think the fatality statistics for Japan are artificially deflated. If I recall (I will try to find a source), the NPA does not consider it a traffic fatality if the victim does not die very soon after the accident. For example, if they linger for a few days on life support and then die, it does not count as a traffic fatality. But don't quote me on this until I come back with a reference.

I have heard that about the deaths before too.

It is definitely the case that there is a lot more potential for accidents in Japan. Horrific town planning where roads are shared by everone and everything. Trucks, cars, Buses, Scooters, bicycles, pedestrians, dogs, cats and light poles.
It does make for interesting driving though because you never know what's going to pop out at you.

[Coligny]

I like the 'Arigato' twin blinks that most commercial vehicle drivers give when you've let them into the space in front of you.

Yeah... done by everybody in toyohashi/nagoya... I hotwired me a pedal switch to do this, less dangerous than aiming for the hasard buton, lost somewhere low in the dash.

My favorite 'oh shit' moment was under heavy rain in the highway. Cornered by trucks (me bitch was driving), obliged to be between 120kph and 140... Lucky it was still the Audi A4, (strangely in working condition that day)... because the Nissan Note don't agree really to go faster than 80... (100 with wind in the back).

Assholes speeding on supermarkets parkings piss me off the most. So many kids running around. At least when they monkey on the road it's mostly cars against cars... Tailgaters comes next... but they quickly understand that the closer they get the slower I will have to reduce my speed to remain safe. (don't remember the article number but clearly state that driver must accomodate their speed to the road and traffic conditions).

I noticed a funny trend. when i go on somewhat longer trip I always end up in a pack with a bunch of other drivers anal-retentively doing the speed limit. Usually behind a Kuroneko-Yamato truck setting the pace. I'm always a little sad when I have to leave the formation at the end of the journey...

[xenomorph42]

Yeah... done by everybody in toyohashi/nagoya... I hotwired me a pedal switch to do this, less dangerous than aiming for the hasard buton, lost somewhere low in the dash.

My favorite 'oh shit' moment was under heavy rain in the highway. Cornered by trucks (me bitch was driving), obliged to be between 120kph and 140... Lucky it was still the Audi A4, (strangely in working condition that day)... because the Nissan Note don't agree really to go faster than 80... (100 with wind in the back).

Assholes speeding on supermarkets parkings piss me off the most. So many kids running around. At least when they monkey on the road it's mostly cars against cars... Tailgaters comes next... but they quickly understand that the closer they get the slower I will have to reduce my speed to remain safe. (don't remember the article number but clearly state that driver must accomodate their speed to the road and traffic conditions).

I think the best solution to that would be to put speed bumps throughout the shopping centers, curves and neighborhoods and not the whimpy speed bumps that a snail can glide over, I mean, the giant(might fuck up my suspension, gotta go slow) bumps, that might help a lot.

I noticed a funny trend. when i go on somewhat longer trip I always end up in a pack with a bunch of other drivers anal-retentively doing the speed limit. Usually behind a Kuroneko-Yamato truck setting the pace. I'm always a little sad when I have to leave the formation at the end of the journey...

I tend to tear up a little myself.

[Bucky]

I concur. Growing up in BC, I can't count the number of times I heard "Jesus H Christ, it's another one of those #@%&! Alberta drivers!".
But they all pales in comparison to any old fart in a kei-tora cruising around in the inaka here...

One of my all-time favorite bumper stickers:

No I Am Not Canadian, I Just Drive Like One

Seen in Bellingham, WA

[Yokohammer]

Incidentally, I think the fatality statistics for Japan are artificially deflated. If I recall (I will try to find a source), the NPA does not consider it a traffic fatality if the victim does not die very soon after the accident. For example, if they linger for a few days on life support and then die, it does not count as a traffic fatality. But don't quote me on this until I come back with a reference.

Yeah, it's 24 hours I think. If you don't die within 24 hours you're not a road fatality. I wonder how they expect that to give them realistic or useful statistics?

[FG Lurker]

Yeah, it's 24 hours I think. If you don't die within 24 hours you're not a road fatality. I wonder how they expect that to give them realistic or useful statistics?

Not realistic, that's for sure. Very useful though, depending on what one wants to use the statistics to "prove"...

[Kagetsu]

Driving habbit wise, my personal opinion is Japanese are some of the worst drivers in the world (coming from someone who's driven Rome, France, Beijing and Taiwan.

I did a road trip around Hokkaido (starting in Hokkaido and ending there via most of the east coast and south coast then through the middle) for 10 days over christmas last year, it was also my first time driving in snow.
As has already been mentioned the truck drivers are just hopelessly aweful. Tail gaiting in the snow and overtaking on hairpin bends with black ice, and often cutting me off.
Additionally speed limits seemed to make sfa difference up there.

[osopolar]

Just saw a 10 minute segment on some channel here in Hyogo.
Funny to see this video, along with a few others from taxi's and random cars, about what happens when drivers go too fast on narrow roads, hitting ppl on bikes, failing to slow down or stop at red lights, and some other stuff other posters have mentioned on this thread.

[canman]

Did some driving during Silver week and the express roads were terrible. Tailgating, driving in the middle of the lane so they could easily pass, people talking on phones, eating, I saw one guy with a map book placed on the steering wheel so he could read as he was driving. But what really got me was the number of bikers who would just zoom through the traffic when it began to slow down a little. Now when I mean slow down I mean from 120 to 90km. I jsut about hit one guy, as I had checked my rearview mirror, and then when I started to move over into the left lane, there he was passing me. I never saw him coming.

[Mike Oxlong]

A more effective way to notice those motorcyclists would be put on the turn indicator, rear-view mirror check, side-view mirror check, shoulder check, lane change...

[FG Lurker]

Went down to the island (eastern Okayama) for the silver week holiday. Left on Friday around lunch time and had a very smooth trip down. Came back yesterday afternoon using non-1000yen expressways to avoid traffic.

Friends who returned the day before on the max 1000yen roads took 4.5 hours to travel what would normally take them 1.5 hours. 3 hours extra time in traffic for two people to realize a savings of about 2000yen. They "earned" 333yen/hour (each) for their time while I drank beer and fished a bit...

I wish they would bring back the fucking tolls to return the expressways to actually being "express" most of the time.