Child Abduction Issue Explodes

[Coligny]

Or they could portray her as a money grabbing, Roppongi slut who was totally out to get a visa because she hated wife beating Japanese oyagi.

That would be a lose lose situation. Smearing the opponent already looks stupid in politics. In a couple coming from the husband that would be the equivalent of a mediatic suicide.

It can work both ways but for sure Daddy should have a better thought out strategy than a futile dash for the consulate.

I blame every fracking spy movie since the last 60 years.

oh... btw... sumtimes the only action possible include a lot of suck and pain. But when you are cornered it's still better than not doing anything.
(that's why the art of war advise to always give the possibility for the enemy to escape or retreat. An enemy facing certain death WILL fight to death, and that's not something you want in a battle)
Remember kids... rule of strategery #1: a dangerous plan is better than no plan at all...

[Takechanpoo]

In the first place, why do this gaijin father stick to his children so much?
He better make new children with a new wife.

[leitmotiv]

but for sure Daddy should have a better thought out strategy than a futile dash for the consulate.

It seems like the first he was notified was when the kids were no-show at school. So he probably felt a lot of time pressure, as their education timeline was clearly being bitten into. Its not like he had several months to concoct a better plan with accomplices etc, which might have worked.

[Netherlander]

Of course, it can only become an issue in Japan if it gets covered in Japan. As Western All Stars has pointed out, there isn't a mention in the press so far. 2ch and blogs often pick up stories touching on Japan which are reported overseas but there isn't anything yet. It might still be a bit early but we'll soon see if it does get noticed.

They played a 6 minute report of the issue on AC 360 (CNN) this morning. Which is quite big in my opinion. The lawyer of the father said the mother will be put on an interpol watchlist, so she won't be able to travel abroad without being picked up.

[Mike Oxlong]

Children's Rights Network blog post (via Japan Probe - CNN vid clip embedded on JP site)

Tennessee judge in Savoie case may have seriously erred

[Ketou]

Children's Rights Network blog post (via Japan Probe - CNN vid clip embedded on JP site)

Tennessee judge in Savoie case may have seriously erred

From the same site.....this article is a translation of a Mainichi Newspaper article painting Japanese as victims.

[Behan]

In the first place, why do this gaijin father stick to his children so much?
He better make new children with a new wife.

Sometimes I forget that you are trolling and start to get angry. But then I soon remember.

[Catoneinutica]

Children's Rights Network blog post (via Japan Probe - CNN vid clip embedded on JP site)

Tennessee judge in Savoie case may have seriously erred

I get the impression that toned-down, cleaned-up iterations of Take-chan post most of the content over at Japan Probe. It's such an odd, chrysanthemum-kissy-poo site that it makes JapanToday look positively snarky by comparison.

[AssKissinger]

What great parents!

[omae mona]

All good points. I agree. I had a friend 7 years ago trying to attempt the same thing, but his situation was a bit more dramatic...

xenomorph, I am really confused about one point in your story. Did your friend's wife first abduct the child from another country? Or was the kid living in Japan (by consent of both parents) when your friend attempted the kidnapping?

This makes a huge difference.

If your friend's wife kidnapped the kid and took him to Japan first, then there should have been many warrants for her arrest, and she should have been arrested upon returning to the U.S.

On the other hand, if your friend was the first person to kidnap and just tried to take the kid out of Japan because he disagrees with Japanese family law, then I think your friend is really lucky not to be in jail. And that would make this very different than the Savoie case that this thread is about.

[Iraira]

In the first place, why do this gaijin father stick to his children so much?
He better make new children with a new wife.

Takechan, understand something very simple. If Japan wants to be taken seriously by and do business with the rest of the world, there are somethings that it must conform to. Sure, each country puts its own interests first, but this issue shows Japan thumbing its nose at the rest of the world. That doesn't help Japan in the long run, unless Japan is seeking to conform to the ideologies that Iran and North Korea flaunt.
This is not a "Japan is a special unique culture" thing, it's about working within the fundemental rules that most nations have adopted in order to better cooperate with each other.

[Mulboyne]

[canman]

What I find always sad is that it is either the father or in most cases the mother who makes the decision, either to flee or not. You never hear how the kids feel, or what they want to do. According to this story the mother feared them growing up in America and losing their Japanese culture. But maybe the kids were fine with that, and it was the mother who felt she was losing out. I guess asking an 8 and 6 year old what they want to do, or where they want to live is a bit much, but this woman sounds like she was at the end of her tether and had to get out. Why didn't she just leave the kids and come back to Japan herself.
I don't know a lot about the rules and regulations of embassies and consulates, but are they not technically not, in this case, Japanese soil. So had Mr. Savoie made into the compound, they would be forced to give him refuge. But why wouldn't they open the doors for him. As Mulboyne said they dodged a bullet, but I wonder does he have any kind of legal recompense for their. Hell, even if he had gotten in, he wouldn't be in jail right now, would he.

[Mike Oxlong]

Had he been a member of the remnants of the occupying forces (USFJ), he most certainly would have been allowed in, for anything from escape from a groping charge, to escape from a murder charge...

[Mulboyne]

It's not entirely clear what happened at the consulate. The police were apparently near by, having been alerted by his ex-wife, so one account makes it sound like he made a dash, with one of his children, for the gate. If the consulate has any kind of procedure requiring you to show ID and sign in before you are admitted, then the police could easily have got to him while he was on Japanese territory. Consulate officials could probably claim that they didn't actually deny him entry, rather that they didn't have an adequate opportunity to verify he was entitled to entry. There might even be a basic security protocol which says don't open the gate just because a guy hurtles towards you saying he is an American citizen.

Mind you, the problems of child abduction are well known among State Department officials so it would be surprising if they hadn't played through a few "what if" scenarios where someone like Savoie does attempt to make it inside an embassy or consulate. It would be fascinating to know what conclusions they came to about how they should deal with it. It certainly isn't impossible that it could happen again so they'll probably be reviewing their approach even now.

[Mike Oxlong]

Featured on Crimesider

[Mulboyne]

They are saying he's Japanese?

CNN: Father, kids in custody case Japanese citizens, officials say

The case of a Tennessee man jailed in Japan for trying to snatch back his children from his estranged wife is not as clear-cut as it's been made out to be, authorities here said Wednesday. The father, Christopher Savoie, apparently became a naturalized Japanese citizen four years ago, listing a permanent address in Tokyo, they said. And while he and Noriko Savoie, a Japanese native, divorced in Tennessee, the two never annulled their marriage in Japan, Japanese officials said. Also, the two children at the center of the case hold Japanese passports, they said. "His chances of getting his children back home to the States, I think, are pretty slim right now," Jeremy Morley, Savoie's lawyer in the United States, told CNN's "AC 360" on Tuesday night. "We're getting this in the hands of Interpol. We're putting the pressure," he added. "We want diplomatic pressure. We want the United States government to act strongly."

Savoie was arrested Monday when he snatched his two children -- 8-year-old Isaac and 6-year-old Rebecca -- as Noriko Savoie was walking them to school in Fukuoka, about 680 miles (1,100 kilometers) southwest of the capital, Tokyo. He headed for the U.S. consulate in that city to try to obtain passports for them, authorities said. But Japanese police, alerted by Noriko Savoie, arrested him. Japanese authorities said Wednesday that Savoie was eating well and was staying in a jail cell by himself. He will be held for 10 days while prosecutors sort out the details of the case. "I know he had to go to the hospital for blood pressure issues," said Amy Savoie, whom Savoie married after divorcing Noriko Savoie in Tennessee in January. "The gentleman from the consulate was able to contact me this morning, and he confirmed that Christopher had gone to the hospital. The first night he needed medication for his high blood pressure."

After their Tennessee divorce, Noriko Savoie agreed to live in Franklin, Tennessee, to be close to the children, taking them to Japan for summer vacations. In March, Savoie requested a restraining order to prevent his wife from taking the children to Japan, fearing she would not return. "I was on a speaker phone telephone call once when she proclaimed to him, 'You have no idea what I'm capable of," said Amy Savoie. "So, yes, he had the idea." Noriko Savoie could not be reached by CNN for comment. On the day that the two children were to begin school in August, Savoie learned Noriko Savoie had fled with them to Japan. After that, Savoie filed for and was granted full custody of the children by a Tennessee court. And Franklin police issued an arrest warrant for Noriko Savoie.

But Japan is not a party to a 1980 Hague Convention on international child abduction. Foreign parents have had little luck in regaining custody, the U.S. State Department said. "She has committed a felony, the mother," Morley said. "It's a very serious felony. She would go to jail for serious time if she were here. "But Japan has a different legal system and a different set of customs and ideas about custody. And their idea is that somebody who is Japanese and the mother should be entitled to have the kids and have the kids alone. The fact that they were living here is kind of irrelevant, and the fact that there's a court order here is irrelevant." So, Savoie flew to Fukuoka to try to get back his children -- and landed himself in jail. "These kids are the ones that are suffering," Morley said. "These kids are without their father, and their father needs to be a part of their life. It's not fair that he's been taken away from them.

More coverage with some additional details:

Providence Journal

MSNBC

[Bucky]

It is interesting to view the father's Linkedin.com profile.

He apparently has an MD and PhD from Kyushu University, I would venture his Japanese is very good. So he is no noob in Japan.

Also according to the AP story "The Savoies were divorced in January. . ." and he already remarried. That did not take long.

Plus he has Japanese citizenship?

Sounds like a pretty complicated mess to me.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Or they could portray her as a money grabbing, Roppongi slut who was totally out to get a visa because she hated wife beating Japanese oyagi. It can work both ways but for sure Daddy should have a better thought out strategy than a futile dash for the consulate.

the japanese media, even if she was a rops slut would never protray her that way. she is an innocent j-girl who was seduced by promises of visas and money and happiness. neither will you see any mention of domestic violence.

japanese women are never the perpetrator. ALWAYS the victim.

you must be new here.

[wuchan]

He fucked up by not getting or securing his kids US passports. The news stories don't seem to state what country the passports were issued from but if they were US issued he fucked up by not locking them away in a safe deposit box under his parents name. The fact that the courts gave Noriko the passports leads me to believe that the were japanese passports. If that is the case he totally fucked up by not getting US ones issued at birth. From the stories and the fact that he tried to have the court take the passports makes it seem that he already knew what he was up against. Running to the consulate to get passports issued (without the spouse present) seems like a retarded move.

[Mulboyne]

He fucked up by not getting or securing his kids US passports. The news stories don't seem to state what country the passports were issued from but if they were US issued he fucked up by not locking them away in a safe deposit box under his parents name.

How would he have done that? His wife was allowed by the court to travel with the children to Japan so she would have had their passports.

[xenomorph42]

xenomorph, I am really confused about one point in your story. Did your friend's wife first abduct the child from another country? Or was the kid living in Japan (by consent of both parents) when your friend attempted the kidnapping?

This makes a huge difference.

If your friend's wife kidnapped the kid and took him to Japan first, then there should have been many warrants for her arrest, and she should have been arrested upon returning to the U.S.

On the other hand, if your friend was the first person to kidnap and just tried to take the kid out of Japan because he disagrees with Japanese family law, then I think your friend is really lucky not to be in jail. And that would make this very different than the Savoie case that this thread is about.

Actually, they were never married. They were a couple, she was born here, but carried both citizenships. As to why he went to great lengths to take his child was that, she never allowed him to be alone with the child and HIS parents wanted to see their grandchild, but she didn't feel it was necessary to do so. She felt(and stated to me, the court, everyone)that "having a father is totally irrelevant in raising a child, but every children needs to have a mother, because without a mother a child is nothing. If the man is a good man and is a good provider, then he has the right to say he is the father, if not, then he has no right to say, he is the father or guardian of the child."
Those were her words. Because of this situation, he knew looking back, he was wrong, but he felt betrayed by her, her family and the Japanese judicial system. He didn't marry her in the end because he fell out of love with her, but he wanted to stand on his feet and do the right thing and take care of his child. She told me once that since he wouldn't marry her, she promised to make his life a living hell. So basically, she used the child to get back at him in the worst way.
Nowadays, he tries not to dwell on it so much and hopes that maybe she will hopefully try to seek him out when she is an adult or teenager. But I feel that, the mother will make sure that the child will be conditioned to think that her father didn't give a crap about her and that he is an evil person. Most women like that look at their kids as a possession anyway.

[xenomorph42]

How would he have done that? His wife was allowed by the court to travel with the children to Japan so she would have had their passports.

It doesn't matter if they are US issued or not. If the kids are taken by force in the US, Canada, Australia, UK, Germany etc. if the woman flees to Japan, no court will honor the international law, almost never.

I have another friend who was married(still is, never got divorced yet)technically. At the time, his 4 year old daughter and his wife wanted to go to Japan to visit her parents for 2 weeks. From his perspective, they had a great marriage. She never complained. They had of course now and then some small arguments, but nothing that would raise a flag. Once they go here, she never talked to him again. I say still married because, he filed for divorce, sent the papers, tried to contact her, but in 4 years, she spoke to him only once. Every time he calls, she puts the kid on the phone and says, talk to daddy, he can't understand her, but wants to listen to her voice. Then after 15 min. she tells her to get off the phone and say bye. That's it. And yet, he still pays child support. He sends about 150.000yen each month for the past 3 years, but can't see his child, can't really get divorced, she doesn't notify him or anything. I told him that he was a complete fool in doing so. Finally, he stopped sending her money.

[xenomorph42]

oops

[xenomorph42]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/33068613#33086474

This just about sums it all up!

[GuyJean]

Maybe not a lot of new information, but it was on the front page of CNN..

Father, kids in custody case Japanese citizens, officials say
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/09/30/japan.savoie.children/index.html

The father, Christopher Savoie, apparently became a naturalized Japanese citizen four years ago, listing a permanent address in Tokyo, they said.

And while he and Noriko Savoie, a Japanese native, divorced in Tennessee, the two never annulled their marriage in Japan, Japanese officials said.

Also, the two children at the center of the case hold Japanese passports, they said.

"His chances of getting his children back home to the States, I think, are pretty slim right now," Jeremy Morley, Savoie's lawyer in the United States, told CNN's "AC 360" on Tuesday night.

"We're getting this in the hands of Interpol. We're putting the pressure," he added. "We want diplomatic pressure. We want the United States government to act strongly." Read about why the case is not news in Japan

Savoie was arrested Monday when he snatched his two children -- 8-year-old Isaac and 6-year-old Rebecca -- as Noriko Savoie was walking them to school in Fukuoka, about 680 miles (1,100 kilometers) southwest of the capital, Tokyo...

Norikooooo!!.. God damn you to heeeell!!!

GJ

[Bucky]

Also, the two children at the center of the case hold Japanese passports, they said.
GJ

I gotta think they also hold US passports too.

[Mulboyne]

It doesn't matter if they are US issued or not. If the kids are taken by force in the US, Canada, Australia, UK, Germany etc. if the woman flees to Japan, no court will honor the international law, almost never.

I don't know what point your comment addresses. I was only asking wuchan how Savoie could have maintained control of his children's passports if his wife required them for her trip to Japan.

[dimwit]

An interesting question in all this is just how complicit the Japanese Embassy is in these abductions. I am sure that at least some of the abducters contacted the Japanese embassy when they were living overseas regarding their custody and the legality of leaving the US. What did the embaasy advise them to do?

[xenomorph42]

An interesting question in all this is just how complicit the Japanese Embassy is in these abductions. I am sure that at least some of the abducters contacted the Japanese embassy when they were living overseas regarding their custody and the legality of leaving the US. What did the embaasy advise them to do?

From what I have heard is that they know and understand all the legalities and what could happen if they stay anywhere overseas. So they are told to go back to Japan where international law doesn't apply.