Japan to buy 50 million H1N1 vaccines from overseas

[Western All Stars]

TOKYO, Oct 6 (Reuters) - The Japanese government said on Tuesday it would buy enough H1N1 flu vaccine from British drug maker GlaxoSmithKline (GSK.L) and Switzerland's Novartis (NOVN.VX) to treat nearly 50 million people.

The government said last week it would secure enough to treat a total of 77 million people by the end of March next year, with Japanese makers producing enough vaccine to treat 27 million people. It added that it would start importing vaccine from around the end of December or January.

Experts predict that a third of the global population - 2 billion people - will eventually be infected with H1N1, which was first seen in March in California and Mexico.

The World Health Organization said in late August that the new H1N1 swine flu had reached epidemic levels in Japan, signaling the early start to what may be a long influenza season this year.
...
reuters.com

Last August swine flu reached "epidemic levels"? I remember the government closing the schools for a week and quarantining a plane full of people for a while, but it turned out only a few people had it. But I guess if a third of the world's population will get it eventually now would be a good time.

[Ketou]

So much hype and constant talk of epidemic/pandemic.
I'm actually more worried about the vaccine than about the flu. No shots for my family...

[Coligny]

So much hype and constant talk of epidemic/pandemic.
I'm actually more worried about the vaccine than about the flu. No shots for my family...

The fact that a shitload of people are catching it is totally irrelevant. People get sick all the time... Now if they were all dying in the same proportion that would be a bad thing (think Night of the living dead baaad.). From last dinur conversation theres 100s of cases in Toyohashi. And no death whatsoever that can be linked to this flue with a straight face.

When a 95 year old fall from his roof under heavy rain because he sneezed they don't dare yet to call it a victim of the pandemic...

For now it's seems more to be a "keep people scared" scam.

[leitmotiv]

So much hype and constant talk of epidemic/pandemic.
I'm actually more worried about the vaccine than about the flu. No shots for my family...

Its not hype. If anything its underreported in Japan, perhaps due to criticism from perceived over-reporting (and mis-reporting) earlier this year.

Dont want to argue...but curious why you are worried about the vaccine. Is that worry specific to H1N1? Or do you also skip seasonal flu vaccines for your family?

[leitmotiv]

The fact that a shitload of people are catching it is totally irrelevant. People get sick all the time... Now if they were all dying in the same proportion that would be a bad thing .......

For now it's seems more to be a "keep people scared" scam.

The H1N1 may not kill you, but it may make many people quite sick such that they need time on a respirator to recuperate (think those with asthma, heart conditions, etc). There are only so many respirators in hospitals in japan (or any country for that matter). The H1N1 seems to spead very efficiently, even if its not much more deadly than typical seasonal flu. This is why it has been labelled a pandemic. If the projected numbers of world wide infected come to pass for H1N1, unneccesary deaths may result because there are not enough respirators (that is in wealthy countries....dont even ask about respirator/population ratios in places like indonesia, india, etc)

Its not really true that H1N1 is no worse than seasonal flu. It may not have a higher deadliness -- but it seems to saturate a population with much greater ease than typical seasonal flu. We know this because the southern hemisphere just got completely overwhelmed during their winter. The overwhelming majority of influenza hospitalization cases were H1N1 in Australia by the end of the season. It just wiped normal seasonal flu strains off the charts (usually it is somewhat evenly distributed).

I dont think there is a significant "keep people scared" scam.

[Behan]

Schools all over the place are keeping classes,entire grades, or the whole school home. My son's grade just got told to stay home and one of the schools I go to for work kept all of the students home for a week.

[Coligny]

The H1N1 may not kill you, but it may make many people quite sick such that they need time on a respirator to recuperate (think those with asthma, heart conditions, etc). There are only so many respirators in hospitals in japan (or any country for that matter). The H1N1 seems to spead very efficiently, even if its not much more deadly than typical seasonal flu. This is why it has been labelled a pandemic. If the projected numbers of world wide infected come to pass for H1N1, unneccesary deaths may result because there are not enough respirators (that is in wealthy countries....dont even ask about respirator/population ratios in places like indonesia, india, etc)

Its not really true that H1N1 is no worse than seasonal flu. It may not have a higher deadliness -- but it seems to saturate a population with much greater ease than typical seasonal flu. We know this because the southern hemisphere just got completely overwhelmed during their winter. The overwhelming majority of influenza hospitalization cases were H1N1 in Australia by the end of the season. It just wiped normal seasonal flu strains off the charts (usually it is somewhat evenly distributed).

I dont think there is a significant "keep people scared" scam.

And how many dead did you count ?


At first it was said to be special because of the fact it was more lethal in 20-50 healthy people but now the wiki state that it affect more elder and infant... like every other flu... to quote again:

"The 2009 swine flu has been compared to other similar types of influenza virus in terms of mortality: "in the US it appears that for every 1000 people who get infected, about 40 people need admission to hospital and about one person dies."

Not even enough to make a crappy Hong Kong horror movie... unless you want it to be worse than ebola syndrome...

[leitmotiv]

And how many dead did you count ?


At first it was said to be special because of the fact it was more lethal in 20-50 healthy people but now the wiki state that it affect more elder and infant... like every other flu... to quote again:

"The 2009 swine flu has been compared to other similar types of influenza virus in terms of mortality: "in the US it appears that for every 1000 people who get infected, about 40 people need admission to hospital and about one person dies."

Not even enough to make a crappy Hong Kong horror movie... unless you want it to be worse than ebola syndrome...

Again....its not the relative deadliness of this particular flu bug....its how efficiently it transfers itself from person to person (which is somewhat a function of how "naiive" the collective immunity of a population to a particular new strain). That efficiency and attendant higher numbers of infected can translate into respirators and other resources -- which can generally handle normal seasonal flu loads -- to be overwhelemed resulting in unneeded deaths. Its a bit lucky this current pandemic is not deadlier, but it should not be therefore understood that preparations for pandemic influenzas can be ignored in the future. The threat is real and deadly influenza outbreaks have occured in recent history (as I am sure you know).

The focus of most pandemic preparations prior to 2009 has been geared towards the avian strains (H5N1). Avian strains have a human killing potential that would maybe impress you more -- about 60% death in all verified H5N1 human infections thus far. And those deaths primarily teens to middle age people - i.e., people who generally have optimal immune systems and would not be expected to die from flu infections. So far H5N1 strain has NOT developed the person-to-person efficiency of this current H1N1. But the genetic shifts that would allow it to do that are very possible. In fact, they occur in flu strains all the time, which is a partial explanation of why you need a different seasonal flu shot every year.

[IkemenTommy]

LETS(tm) all panic...

because 1 person died this summer in Okinawa for some unknown reason (other than H1N1 for sure..)

Time to buy all the Roche stocks. Oh yeah Cyka, they are another example of a successful gaishi company.

[Ketou]

Its not hype. If anything its underreported in Japan, perhaps due to criticism from perceived over-reporting (and mis-reporting) earlier this year.

Dont want to argue...but curious why you are worried about the vaccine. Is that worry specific to H1N1? Or do you also skip seasonal flu vaccines for your family?

Never had a flu shot that I know of....which at least means nothing in the last 20 odd years.
Not too worried about H1N1 at all...especially considering the 1976 outbreak of it where more people died of the vaccine than the flu. (in the States)
My main concern is the speed at which this vaccine was produced. I also do not consider injection of mercury into my body overly beneficial.

[Behan]

I think they are still using mercury (or a mercury compound) as a preservative in flu shots here.

That guy with the great avatar would know more about this I bet....

[Coligny]

Again....its not the relative deadliness of this particular flu bug....its how efficiently it transfers itself from person to person (which is somewhat a function of how "naiive" the collective immunity of a population to a particular new strain). That efficiency and attendant higher numbers of infected can translate into respirators and other resources -- which can generally handle normal seasonal flu loads -- to be overwhelemed resulting in unneeded deaths. Its a bit lucky this current pandemic is not deadlier, but it should not be therefore understood that preparations for pandemic influenzas can be ignored in the future. The threat is real and deadly influenza outbreaks have occured in recent history (as I am sure you know).

You do realise that the spread of a non deadly disease is a non issue ?

Yeah if it wuz something worse it would be a problem... But if it was really deadly. Curfew, grounded planes and all the Holliwood grade folklore would get involved.

Here you are just saying... That since it's not that lethal we are not doing enough to play make believe like if it was lethal and therefore we would not do better if it was really a planet killer...

I would call this a typical case of cure worse than the disease...
I understand what you are worried about. But i'm not sure why... You are playing a "what if..." mindgame... as historian (even a real sucky one) it's absolutly forbidden. You can't deduce a potential future based on a current reaction triggered by a completely different paradigm.

[BO-SENSEI]

I think they are still using mercury (or a mercury compound) as a preservative in flu shots here.

That guy with the great avatar would know more about this I bet....

I was just talking to a doctor friend of mine and told me a whole bunch of stuff about how flu shots work and how bad they are for your body, you will never catch me getting one of those things, plus, did they really need enough for almost have the population?

[Behan]

I was just talking to a doctor friend of mine and told me a whole bunch of stuff about how flu shots work and how bad they are for your body, you will never catch me getting one of those things, plus, did they really need enough for almost have the population?

I don't think all the evidence is in, but there are a lot of parents with autistic children who believe that autism is caused, at least in part, by mercury. They believe autistic children's bodies are unable to get the mercury out and one of the sources for that mercury is vaccinations.

My sister is one of those people and sometimes forwards me articles on this issue. Apparently mercury is used because it's a cheaper way of preserving the vaccinations. I'd rather pay a little more and get a shot without any heavy metals in it.

[Ketou]

The mercury is in the form of Thiomersal (thimerosal). (49% by weight)
It has mostly been phased out of vaccines for kids in Western countries. But it is in all the flu doses in all countries, unless you get the single dose shots.

[Kuang_Grade]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/thimerosal_faqs_thimerosal.htm

http://www.pbs.org/now/science/mercuryinfish.html

There is upwards to 50x more mercury exposure in A SINGLE GRAM of tuna fish than a flu shot and Thimerosal metabolizes into ethelmercury, which unlike the more familiar methylmercury, does not build up in the body.

[leitmotiv]

[leitmotiv]

The mercury is in the form of Thiomersal (thimerosal). (49% by weight)
It has mostly been phased out of vaccines for kids in Western countries. But it is in all the flu doses in all countries, unless you get the single dose shots.

That is correct. It is a straight forward preservative. Not an evil mind control substance mandated by the bilderberg group, as some sceptics seem to think. It is only used in flu doses that come in multi-dose vials. The doctor/nurse needs to uncap it and go in with a needle multiple times, which can contaminate. Hence the need. Single dose vials do not have thimerisol, but think about the added cost of making, distributing 50-100M doses of a refrigerated vaccine and putting each one in an individial single dose syringe (rather than in 5 or 10 dose vials). You can specify thimerisol free single serving vaccines, but in most cases they will cost more.

[leitmotiv]

I was just talking to a doctor friend of mine and told me a whole bunch of stuff about how flu shots work and how bad they are for your body, you will never catch me getting one of those things, plus, did they really need enough for almost have the population?

I am curious...Was the doctor Japanese? What did he say were the the basic points of how bad vaccines are for your health?

[Coligny]

[Coligny]

That is correct. It is a straight forward preservative. Not an evil mind control substance mandated by the bilderberg group, as some sceptics seem to think.

nope, invoking Bilderberg put you in the delusionnal group. Sceptics are usually a little more...

subtle...

It is only used in flu doses that come in multi-dose vials. The doctor/nurse needs to uncap it and go in with a needle multiple times, which can contaminate. Hence the need. Single dose vials do not have thimerisol, but think about the added cost of making, distributing 50-100M doses of a refrigerated vaccine and putting each one in an individial single dose syringe (rather than in 5 or 10 dose vials). You can specify thimerisol free single serving vaccines, but in most cases they will cost more.

I remember a saying... Everything that deserve to be done, deserve to be done properly. If you can't be arsed to properly package vaccination because it might cost a little more... Then let me guess... your previous job was linked with the devlopement of the Ford Pinto ? Remember the scandal of the tainted blood ? Politician got it easy, doctors involved got closer to a beheading... And funnily enough, off the record those people where rabidly anti vaccine. Their motto was revolving around 'let the other take the vaccine so we will be safe even without it'

[Ketou]

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/thimerosal_faqs_thimerosal.htm

http://www.pbs.org/now/science/mercuryinfish.html

There is upwards to 50x more mercury exposure in A SINGLE GRAM of tuna fish than a flu shot and Thimerosal metabolizes into ethelmercury, which unlike the more familiar methylmercury, does not build up in the body.

There are two issues not addressed with that though. One ]http://www.autismboulder.org/pdf/ScienceSummary.pdf[/url]

1. Baskin (2003) – thimerosal disrupts cell membranes, damages DNA, and alters cell
shape at concentrations only 4 times those expected from vaccines. Greater effects
were seen as the length of time of exposure grew, suggesting that under real
conditions the concentration needed for the observed alterations would be much
lower. This has been shown in subsequent research, that exposure of cells to
nanomolar levels of thimerosal after 24 hours results in cell alterations.
2. Burbacher (2005): infant monkeys dosed with vaccine-level thimerosal were
compared with infant monkeys dosed with equal levels of methylmercury. The
thimerosal dose resulted in lower blood levels but more than twice the inorganic, or
long term, mercury levels in the brain, relative to the methylmercury. The study
showed the potential for significant brain accumulation from thimerosal and
demonstrated that exposure/safety assessments for methylmercury may not apply to
thimerosal.
3. Havarinasab & Hultman (2005): thimerosal given to mice alters immune function
more than equal doses of methylmercury.
4. Hornig (2005): dosing of autoimmune-prone infant mice with thimerosal-containing
vaccines, at the dose given to humans adjusted for mouse weight, resulted in a
number of observable effects including growth delay, reduced movement,
exaggerated responses, and brain alterations such as increased neuron density and
changes in receptors and transporters.
5. Humphrey & Kiningham (2005): after only short (2 hour) exposures, thimerosal at
micromolar concentrations caused neuronal membrane damage and alterations
leading to cell death.
6. James (2005): the viability of neuronal cell lines was decreased after just 3 hour
exposure to 2.5 micromolar concentrations of thimerosal.
7. Makani & Yel (2002) – thimerosal at micromolar amounts causes cell death
(apoptosis) in immune cells (T cells).
8. Mutkus & Aschner (2005) – thimerosal alters glutamate transporter function at low
micromolar concentrations. Glutamate is a neurotransmitter and is necessary for
proper brain functioning.
9. Parran (2005)- thimerosal causes DNA fragmentation of neuronal cells and disrupts
neuronal growth factor signaling at micromolar and even nanomolar concentrations.
10. Ueha-Ishibashi (2004: thimerosal at low concentrations is as toxic to rat neurons as
methylmercury. The FDA and EPA use methymercury as their toxicity standard, so
demonstration of equivalence shows the potential of thimerosal to cause the same
harm as methylmercury, for which more research exists.
11. Waly & Deth (2004): thimerosal inhibits critical DNA methylation and attentional
pathways at nanomolar concentrations, leading to alterations in brain function.
12. Westphal (2003) – thimerosal at nanomolar concentrations causes DNA damage in
immune cells (lymphocytes) leading to cell death.

There are too many things we do not understand about this well enough to be pumping into our children's brains.

[BO-SENSEI]

I am curious...Was the doctor Japanese? What did he say were the the basic points of how bad vaccines are for your health?

The doctor was American, but he deals with doctors in Japan and that was where he got most of his information. I am not really sure what the key points of the conversation were since i was drinking at the time. But the basic idea was that getting the vaccine would make a healthy person sick, while you wouldn't get the flu, you would be at risk to other things since your white blood cells would be busy fighting what was injected into your body or something like that. But he was also rambling on about how the pharmaceutical company that makes the swine flu vaccine has a plant in Mexico close to the were the outbreak occurred and requested a patent for the vaccine one year before the outbreak. Since the shelf life for the vaccine is 3 years, their stockpiles would have gone down the drain if it were not for the outbreak. And as an interesting side note to the company in question, Donald Rumsfeld was on the board of directors and has a good number of stocks in the company. [I]But this is all hearsay so you can take it or leave it]

[Ketou]

And as an interesting side note to the company in question, Donald Rumsfeld was on the board of directors and has a good number of stocks in the company. [I]But this is all hearsay so you can take it or leave it]

......the same Donald Rumsfled who the the head of Searle when their product Aspartame was approved by the FDA in extremely 'odd' circumstances.
If I wasn't a conspiracy theorist before I almost am now. Link him to Fluoride and I'm getting my tin hat and joining the fully fledged paranoid.

[Behan]

I remember a saying... Everything that deserve to be done, deserve to be done properly. If you can't be arsed to properly package vaccination because it might cost a little more... Then let me guess... your previous job was linked with the devlopement of the Ford Pinto ?

LOL. Nice one.

Remember the scandal of the tainted blood ? Politician got it easy, doctors involved got closer to a beheading... And funnily enough, off the record those people where rabidly anti vaccine. Their motto was revolving around 'let the other take the vaccine so we will be safe even without it'

The officials who let tainted blood circulate in Japan do deserve a beheading.

[omae mona]

The doctor was American, but he deals with doctors in Japan and that was where he got most of his information. I am not really sure what the key points of the conversation were since i was drinking at the time.

Oh, this is great. We FGs are now getting our medical advice from a guy who was drunk himself and heard it from a drunk American doctor who was trying to learn from the Japanese medical community.

[Greji]

......the same Donald Rumsfled who the the head of Searle when their product Aspartame was approved by the FDA in extremely 'odd' circumstances.

Ah ha! Rummy comes out! I knew it. The Swine flu is Bush's fault!

[Coligny]

Ah ha! Rummy comes out! I knew it. The Swine flu is Bush's fault!

No, I actually can take part of the blame... I though it was not an STD like the madcow disease and did some bareback riding with the livestock...

ma baad...

[Coligny]

The officials who let tainted blood circulate in Japan do deserve a beheading.

I once took a shit on the lap of the director of the french bloodbank who got jail term for this scandal (suspended I think).
I was a toddler... had a kinda sorta diapper failure...
(mum was assistant of the previous chief and it was some kind of ceremony to give a medal to the old guy, who was rabidly against the new guy... for reasons... including those that got him jailed... but mainly because he was an old school scientist and not a politician with a lab coat)

[Behan]

I once took a shit on the lap of the director of the french bloodbank who got jail term for this scandal (suspended I think).
I was a toddler... had a kinda sorta diapper failure...

You probably had an idea that he was up to no good and let him have a good one.