Catcher in the Rye Redux -- "Disgusting"

[Bucky]

Don't let the bright-eyed, youthful heroes dancing through the pages fool you: Japanese graphic novels are often geared toward adults.

"In Japanese culture, it's well understood that they are adult (-oriented) books, when in America, we still have the notion of a comic book as a kid's genre," said Adam Wood, an assistant professor at Salisbury University who has used graphic novels to help teach his American literature course.
Wicomico County schools removed all copies of Akira Toriyama's "Dragon Ball" series from its library shelves Wednesday, said schools spokeswoman Tracy Sahler. A committee of administrators and people from outside the school system will review the texts in question, but it's Superintendent John Fredericksen who has the final say about their future, Sahler said.
At Tuesday's County Council meeting, Councilman Joe Holloway drew attention to the issue. He distributed photocopies of scenes in the first book in which children appear naked or appear in sexual situations -- illustrations that Holloway called "disgusting."

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Jeez-uz, I let Bucky junior read all these when he was a young-un. He no doubt is warped for life.

[hundefar]

*having a wank to Dragon Ball manga*

[Kanchou]

Wow, what a tard. Dragonball is a kid's manga through-and-through. But in Japan in the 80's, showing a kid's wang, a few titties and an ass was totally acceptable for a kid's manga.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I don't agree with the reasoning but county school libraries should not have comic books in them.

[hundefar]

I don't agree with the reasoning but county school libraries should not have comic books in them.

No art in school libraries? why?

[Coligny]

No art in school libraries? why?

Because you said art... not cheaply mass produced crap. It's business school material at most...

If you make a car museum, would you include every subversion and rebranding of the suzuki wagon R ?

If you have to manage the budget of a library. What are your priorities ? The easily accessible 8000 weekly manga published as a side job by toilet paper maker. or... not... The 'artistic' value of actual manga is nearly the same for all title concerned... Choose 1, put it on the shelf and hope people come for actual reading/culture...

[hundefar]

Because you said art... not cheaply mass produced crap. It's business school material at most...

If you make a car museum, would you include every subversion and rebranding of the suzuki wagon R ?

If you have to manage the budget of a library. What are your priorities ? The easily accessible 8000 weekly manga published as a side job by toilet paper maker. or... not... The 'artistic' value of actual manga is nearly the same for all title concerned... Choose 1, put it on the shelf and hope people come for actual reading/culture...

Well, taste is a subjective matter. I wasn't commenting on whether Dragon Ball should be available, but just on the general opinion that SJ expressed, that comics shouldn't be available at school libraries.

Fiction should be available in school libraries, and so should comics IMO. I find it rather old fashioned to not incorporate modern forms of expression. There are many manga and comics that have high artistic standards, interesting stories and what not. It might not be every ones cup of tea, but then the same goes for so much written fiction.

It is hard to set standards for artistic expression. That something is mass produced does not mean it is bad quality or not worth spending time on. That is a bit of a "counter culture" viewpoint, isn't it. Good examples of good massproduced comics are many superhero comics that I for one enjoyed as a child or Donald Duck or what not. There have been written/drawn many good stories in such magazines. They are classics and have come to form and influence many things in out culture. If you are not fluent in these things, there are many cultural references you will not understand. Comics is just another form of expression and I cannot see any reason to disregard it.

American kids reading manga will learn from it. Reading Dragon Ball is exposure to another culture, and also another way of making comics and telling a story. It is a way to broaden the horisont.

Regarding the money spent. Well, that is some thing that library should decide. After all they are running it and know their users. Having interesting stuff at the library is a way to get kids to want to go there and maybe they will also discover other things when they are there. I know I did as a child. I spent many many hours at the local library, and yes, they had comics

[Mock Cockpit]

I don't agree with the reasoning but county school libraries should not have comic books in them.

Did your school library not have Asterix or Tintin in it SJ? I don't see the difference really.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I think reading is such an important tool for the acquisition of knowledge, anything should be OK for school libraries if it can get kids reading and enjoying the written word.
But they should also be taught to discern the value of the reading matter...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

county school libraries should not have comic books in them.

And "un-German" books must be burned!
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it's fair to impose one set of values on everyone, which is what you're implying. Give them a choice of whatever possible, but also provide a way for them to understand the meaning behind the content, then let the kids make the choices for themselves. It teaches responsibility and judgment, as well as ensures they're more likely to enjoy reading.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I don't remember ever seeing comics in my school libraries except a copy of Maus that the my high schools librarian went out of her way to point out to us and to say how excpetional it was that they'd have a comic in the library. When I came to Japan on JET I was very surprised by how many comics they has in the library at the high school I worked at and thought it was pretty poor use of resources.

I grew up reading comics and have nothing against them. I even read a couple of English versions of manga when I was in high school. I don't mind public libraries carrying comics either. However, school libraries are supposed to be primarily for educational purposed and have limited resources. With some rare exceptions they should not be using their budget buying comic books.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

However, school libraries are supposed to be primarily for educational purposed and have limited resources. With some rare exceptions they should not be using their budget buying comic books.

I really understand where you're coming from and have some sympathy for your argument.
But the reality is that kids in most schools just don't want to read so much anymore. What purpose does having only educational materials serve then, if the kids won't read them?
May as well get them to read something they like, encourage the habit to read and then stimulate them to move themselves onto something more educational.
I'm not a teacher and I've been a disastrous parent, but one thing I am proud of is that I have been able to instill in my kids a love of books and reading, which their schools encouraged, too.
And I had no problem with them reading manga, both here and at school. Now they're a bit older, they've developed an urge to get into more challenging reading.
I think if a kid shows an inclination to read, that should be encouraged...if the stuff they want to read is taken away from them, their interests will end up being taken away by other, potentially less beneficial pursuits, IMHO.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I really understand where you're coming from and have some sympathy for your argument.
But the reality is that kids in most schools just don't want to read so much anymore. What purpose does having only educational materials serve then, if the kids won't read them?

Most kids don't want to study math, history, or science either.

I've been a disastrous parent

That tells me all I need to know.

[hundefar]

Actually kids who are into manga and anime in the west usually read a lot more too. So the two are not mutually exclusive. SJ, I understand what you mean, but as I said: comics can be educational too, just like other forms of fiction. So I guess you operate with a more narrow definition of what is educational than I do. So if you are against fiction in any form at school libraries I guess it makes sense (though I still don't agree), but if it is only in the form of comics, then I fail to see the point.

As I said, you can get kids to spend more time at the library and discover other things if you have a varied selection. Not many kids want to poke around and see what is there if there is no fiction, no comics or the likes. So I do think it makes sense to carry comics, and this is also what I hear from the couple of friends that I have who are librarians. Carrying stuff such as comics can have an effect on how people use libraries.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Most kids don't want to study math, history, or science either.

Sure. So we should be trying to think of things that will get them interested in these subjects, too. Encouragement is the way to go, not discouragement.

That tells me all I need to know.

Well, at least I admit it. And I can also confess to having tried as hard as I could at it, but just totally lack the appropriate skills. It's not an easy job and I bet I'm not the first person to fail at parenting. I was lucky to get great kids, but they would have been even better if I were a greater dad.

As I mentioned earlier, I can see where your coming from and understand your argument. My argument is that if school libraries only have limited budgets, what's wrong with only buying materials that kids are going to use instead of bland old stuff that will simply gather dust? (I should add the proviso, of course, that there should be some justification capable in terms of being able to define what "educational" is when buying materials.)

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

As mentioned Maus, how about Tin-Tin or Asterix? I think graphic novels provide a great lead-in to a subject that provokes interest in a subject to then follow up.
Having said that, why would a school library have Dragon Ball?

[hundefar]

As mentioned Maus, how about Tin-Tin or Asterix? I think graphic novels provide a great lead-in to a subject that provokes interest in a subject to then follow up.
Having said that, why would a school library have Dragon Ball?

Well, a lot of people got their interest in Japan or Asia through manga and anime. So I can't see the difference.

[Bucky]

Well, they don't mind manga at this school

In a move to promote serious study of Japanese manga, a university in Tokyo plans to open a library with two million comic books, animation drawings, video games and other cartoon industry artifacts.Tentatively named the Tokyo International Manga Library, it would open by early 2015 on the campus of the private Meiji University, and be available to researchers and fans from Japan and abroad.
"Manga has been taken lightly in the past and there has been no solid archive for serious study," said Susumi Shibao, a library official at the university told AFP by telephone.