Japanese Wives Want Violent Foreign Husbands PR Revoked

[Mulboyne]

An article in the Sankei (Japanese) says that a group of Japanese women are campaigning to make it easier to revoke the permanent residency of their foreign husbands. The women have been victims of domestic violence and are unsettled that their former partners are free to live in Japan because they believe this condemns them to live in fear. One Niigata woman says she has evidence that her husband lied on his permanent residency application since it appears he already had a family at home. She says she doesn't know what he is up to when he is in Japan and wants his PR revoked and for him to be refused re-entry into Japan. Since the system of revoking PR was formalized in 2004, there have been three such cases nationwide. The Tokyo Immigration Bureau says that it is time-consuming to investigate whether forged documents have been used in an application. The Sankei suggests that these procedures need to be reviewed.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

While I feel sorry for the battered women and have some sympathy for them (especially knowing what I deadbeat, but non-violent husband I have been), I think the media is blowing this waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion (maybe not even crime statistics out recently). Even though there were a record 35 consultations, of 470 cases of domestic violence in Niigata, only 3 involved foreigners. I'd say, based on these figures, that there is an even more serious side to the issue of domestic violence that needs to be reported on.

[Mulboyne]

This is an odd article in many ways, uncertain whether it is addressing domestic violence or permanent residency. It says that cases of domestic violence in international marriages have increased as the number of marriages has increased. However, it then goes on to talk about Japanese victims when it is well documented that the main victims are foreign wives. The reference to these women living in the shadow of fear is strange, because their situation is no different to a woman who has split with an abusive Japanese husband, and yet the hint is that the risk is somehow heightened because the husband is a foreigner.

Of course, Japanese wives should not be ignored but the discussion then takes a vague path. The article almost seems to equate PR of a foreign husband with a spouse visa. There's no doubt that being married to a Japanese national will help a PR application but it is not always sufficient and certainly not the only evidence taken into account. The case of the man alleged to have falsified his documents is significant and any country should crack down on such applicants.

It's not clear, though, that the other women have similar evidence against their husbands. It's also not mentioned whether the husbands have been convicted of assault or whether there are any children involved. Allegations of domestic violence appear to pop up where the estranged foreign husband is attempting to see his children against the wishes of the mother so these claims need to be carefully examined.

Although the Sankei appears to be taking the side of the women, there is no suggestion that we are about to see a major change in PR policy. If we do see more clarity in the conditions under which PR will be revoked then that is no bad thing but you'd hope that such policy would be driven by greater concerns than wives who want to see the backs of their foreign husbands. I'm not even certain that revoking PR automatically means that an individual is not allowed to enter the country under another visa.

[Behan]

Isn't a permanent visa supposed to be permanent?

I can understand legal repurcussions against spouses guilty of domestic violation, but cancelling permanent residencey just doesn't seem right. Would just a claim of DV get one kicked out of the country?

[waruta]

Isn't a permanent visa supposed to be permanent?

I can understand legal repurcussions against spouses guilty of domestic violation, but cancelling permanent residencey just doesn't seem right. Would just a claim of DV get one kicked out of the country?

According to the MOJ:

(Revocation of Status of Residence)
Article 22-4.

Where any of the following facts are found with respect to an alien residing in Japan under a status of residence specified in the left-hand column of Annexed Table I or Annexed Table II (excluding those recognized as refugees under Article 61-2, Paragraph 1), the Ministry of Justice may revoke the alien's status of residence in accordance with the procedures provided for by a Ministry of Justice ordinance.

(1) The alien has received, by making a false statement or by other dishonest means, an endorsement stamp of permission for landing or special permission under the provisions of Chapter III, Section I or II, on the consideration that he does not fall under any of the items of Article 5, Paragraph 1.

(2) The alien has received, by making a false statement or by other dishonest means, an endorsement stamp of permission for landing (an endorsement stamp of permission for landing or special permission under the provisions of Chapter III, Section I or II (applicable only to those with the authority to decide status of residence) or the permission under the provisions of this section (excluding Article 19, Paragraph 2), and where two or more stamps or permissions have been granted, the most recent]http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/tetuduki/zairyuu/qa.html[/url]

and here:

http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/icrr-08.html

[waruta]

Btw, notice how they make no mention of the 10+ year concurrent stay requirement that you need to fulfill in order to successfully apply for a PR visa...

[Number11]

I got a PR visa after less than seven years. Another good myth bites the dust.

[Ganma]

I got mine after 7 years, but I was/am married with children. It don't change nothing though. I'm still just a gaijin. I guess I was foolish to think otherwise, but I had hoped it might help me feel more integrated. As it turns out no such luck. If I split with the wife I don't think I'd want to stay here anyway.

...phase in semi-unrelated music....

Don't call me nigger, whitey
Don't call me whitey, nigger

Well I was down, across the country
And I heard two voices ring
They were talkin' angry to each other
And neither other could change a thing

[Taka-Okami]

Fuck PR, just get citizenship.

You may apply for citizenship after living for 1 year in Japan, provided you have been married to a J-naional for a minimum of 3 years (even if you were living overseas, or got married overseas). The application takes about 1 year to be accepted. So it would take 2 years minimum to get citizenship. The j-gov also turns a blind eye to dual citizens as well, and they are likely to change the rules on this soon anyway.

[Yokohammer]

This news raises my cynical red flag big time.

I'm sure there are cases of DV by foreign husbands, but even in such cases there's the issue of degree. Legislation that makes it possible for a J-wife to claim DV with the result that there's a possibility of the husband's PR being revoked seems rather stupid ... and hopefully unlikely.

I have personally known a couple of foreign husbands who have been on the other end of the stick. Even when there is no physical violence involved, wives telling husbands to get out of Japan, or that they'll make sure the husband has to leave Japan, that the husband is "just a foreigner" and doesn't have a chance if a problem occurs, and variations on the theme are not uncommon, it seems. It's just a convenient way to get rid of a husband when things go wrong, but it's clearly not the right way. Of course things get even messier where there are children involved.

To me this "campaign" is basically some women asking for an expedient means to dispose of foreign husbands that have fallen out of favor, for whatever reason. Chances are it'll get squashed pretty quick.

[bolt_krank]

Punishment for DV is a good thing, but revoking PRs for it - seems a system too easy to abuse.

In Australia there's been many cases of women coming over, marrying - then announcing they've been victims of DV. The end result - they get a visa and most of the guys stuff. Even when it's still being investigated.

[james]

they are likely to change the rules on this soon anyway.

citation needed seriously though, i'd be interested in hearing info about this. i wouldn't want to "renounce" my canadian citizenship but would consider becoming a dual. on that note, a long time ago when i asked someone at a consulate, i was told citizenship is the domain of the issuing country so despite what japan says / does, until the powers that be in canada say otherwise, i don't lose it. i have no idea how accurate this is.

[james]

Btw, notice how they make no mention of the 10+ year concurrent stay requirement that you need to fulfill in order to successfully apply for a PR visa...

five years here..

[Taro Toporific]

...the 10+ year concurrent stay requirement that you need to fulfill in order to successfully apply for a PR visa...

five years here..

26 years here on pet license [color="Silver"](spouse visa)[/color]. YMMV

[Yokohammer]

26 years here on pet license [color="Silver"](spouse visa)[/color].

You've been on a spouse visa for 26 years!?!
And the nice people at immigration haven't suggested you apply for PR?
Or do you mean you were "spouse" for 26 years before you got PR?

I had been on a spouse visa for 20-something years, and when I went in to extend one day the woman handling the forms at the door (this was Yokohama) looked at my stuff and said what roughly translates as: "jeepers, will you just apply for PR and get it over and done with, fer cryin' out loud!".

Admittedly a little artistic license was applied in the translation above, but that was the thrust of her comment. So I did, and got it.

There are a few small benefits, but it hasn't improved my barely-tolerated FG status dramatically.

[FG Lurker]

Fuck PR, just get citizenship.

If a country is going to start pulling PR for non-capital crimes then it isn't that big a step to start revoking citizenship for people who have become "undesirable" -- especially if the person has dual nationality (legally or otherwise).

Either a country stands by what it says or it doesn't. It's a slippery slope.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

If a country is going to start pulling PR for non-capital crimes then it isn't that big a step to start revoking citizenship for people who have become "undesirable" -- especially if the person has dual nationality (legally or otherwise).

Either a country stands by what it says or it doesn't. It's a slippery slope.

I think Japan's stance on pulling PR is correct....you must prove that a false application has been made before it can be invalidated. I'd say there'd be countries who would prosecute and deport people who went through such a process. (And wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what Japan did to the three who were caught).
Still, as an undesirable, I can see where you're coming from. Still, I couldn't care less what country I'm a citizen of as long as I can have my booze, smokes, the odd meal here or there and the occasional shag. (Hint, hint to any country with tropical islands and free food and accommodation for useless, middle-aged, sex-crazed white men).

[FG Lurker]

I think Japan's stance on pulling PR is correct....you must prove that a false application has been made before it can be invalidated. I'd say there'd be countries who would prosecute and deport people who went through such a process. (And wouldn't be surprised if that's exactly what Japan did to the three who were caught).

I totally agree with this -- if you get PR (or anything really) through false declarations then it should be taken away once you are found out. Prosecute and deport sounds fine to me.

[Taro Toporific]

You've been on a spouse visa for 26 years!?!

Since I am handicapped and undesirable---Five years on 1-year work visas and 21 years on 3-year spouse "pet licenses."

[Yokohammer]

Since I am handicapped and undesirable---Five years on 1-year work visas and 21 years on 3-year spouse "pet licenses."

Wow, that's tenacity for you.
Handicapped or not, I'm surprised the immigration people haven't nudged you to apply for PR ... unless you have some sort of serious smudge on your record. Have you tried? Do you give a damn?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Wow, that's tenacity for you.
Handicapped or not, I'm surprised the immigration people haven't nudged you to apply for PR ...

I'm surprised they haven't nudged him off the edge of a cliff.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Wow, that's tenacity for you.
Handicapped or not, I'm surprised the immigration people haven't nudged you to apply for PR ... unless you have some sort of serious smudge on your record. Have you tried? Do you give a damn?

I think you're missing the point. They won't give him PR because he's handicapped.

BTW, folks, you can also get rejected for PR if you've changed jobs too often so don't be job hopper if you plan to apply someday.

[Taka-Okami]

The Minister of Justice may permit the naturalization of an alien who is the spouse of a Japanese national notwithstanding that the said alien does not fulfill the conditions set forth in items (1) and (2) of paragraph 1 of Article 5, if the said alien has had a domicile or residence in Japan for three consecutive years or more and is presently domiciled in Japan. The same rule shall apply in the case where an alien who is the spouse of a Japanese national has been married with the Japanese national for three years or more and has had a domicile in Japan for one consecutive year or more.

http://www.moj.go.jp/ENGLISH/information/tnl-01.html

I'm getting J-citizenship asap. I dont care if I lose citizenship for Oz, fuck them and the communist government. Plus those fuckers will have to give me my superannuation as well.

[FG Lurker]

I'm getting J-citizenship asap. I dont care if I lose citizenship for Oz, fuck them and the communist government. Plus those fuckers will have to give me my superannuation as well.

You should carefully consider the tax implications of this decision. (Unless you don't make enough money that this will ever be an issue of course...)

[Ganma]

I'm getting J-citizenship asap. I dont care if I lose citizenship for Oz, fuck them and the communist government. Plus those fuckers will have to give me my superannuation as well.

Why would you want to throw away Oz citizenship? There will probably be no chance of getting a decent pension here. If all goes to hell here at least you have somewhere to go. I don't see the benefit of getting J-citizenship.

[Yokohammer]

I think you're missing the point. They won't give him PR because he's handicapped.

If that's true it's incredibly fucked up. In fact, I'm having a hard time believing that even J-immigration could be so fucked up.

[Yokohammer]

Why would you want to throw away Oz citizenship? There will probably be no chance of getting a decent pension here. If all goes to hell here at least you have somewhere to go. I don't see the benefit of getting J-citizenship.

As far as I can tell the biggest benefit is that you get to act like Debito, and flail around in righteous indignation at every perceived affront.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

If that's true it's incredibly fucked up. In fact, I'm having a hard time believing that even J-immigration could be so fucked up.

How long did you say you had been living in Japan?
I have this great bridge, and guess what, it's up for sale if you're interested.

[Yokohammer]

:rofl:
How long did you say you had been living in Japan?
I have this great bridge, and guess what, it's up for sale if you're interested.

Yeah, yeah, very funny.
Strangely enough, even after all these years, and notwithstanding my cynical leanings, I still actually have some faith in human nature. Including Japanese human nature. Without that I really would have fuck-all.

So ... tell me more about this bridge ...

[TennoChinko]

I think you're missing the point. They won't give him PR because he's handicapped.

BTW, folks, you can also get rejected for PR if you've changed jobs too often so don't be job hopper if you plan to apply someday.

Sorry for asking but is this clearly the case?

If there is not anything indicated on the application materials that specifically require one to list any physical handicap, I guess I can safely assume the discrimination would occur at point of interview that required a physical presence on the part of the applicant (eg for lesser visas, often a proxy can be sent in one's place .. I am not so certain about PR however). Hell, I have friends with PR that have disabilities albeit invisible for the most part - and they are as 'official' as you can get -- the US military veteran disability checks every month say so...

If it's the case of an individual Immigration official (or group of them) making arbitrary subjective (discriminatory) decisions against such a PR applicant, I'd be willing bet there'd be a way around it. Certain Immigration bureaus tend to be more lenient, for example. And, although it'll cost you, having your application filed by (and even accompanied by) a good Immigration lawyer or paralegal (ideally a former Immigration official himself or with excellent relations) seems like a good way to improve the odds for anyone uncertain of their chances.

PR gives one a lot less administrative and bureaucratic hassle to worry about every 3 or 5 years. Plus other bennies like a slight advantage in some cases when seeking out housing or a housing mortgage. ... just don't beat on your Japanese wife!