Asian Flush or Asian foolishness!!?

[McTojo]

[Taro Toporific]

Asian Flush or Asian foolishness!!/ -- Continues...
[quote="McTojo"] Continues...

...And that it was natural for a Japanese to love the national beverage without question. Nothing could've been further from the truth after arriving here. A far cry from my heydays when I used to attend the sake tasting events held at the New Otani Hotel in downtown Los Angeles. I was almost convinced then that all Japanese had a special place in their hearts for this rice brew we epicures call saké]

[Yokohammer]

I honestly can't figure out where you find your Japanese friends. Most of the Japanese guys I drink with prefer nihonshu over anything else. They might have a beer to start, but then it's nihonshu all the way. Some prefer shochu, but in case you hadn't heard, shochu is known as "nihonshu" in the southern regions.

Of course if you're drinking in Gaspanic or somewhere like that you're not going to find too many nihonshu lovers.

And just FYI, nihonshu can be traced back about 2,000 years. Beer can be traced back to Mesopotamia, approximately 5,000 years ago.

[McTojo]

Well....I don't go out of my way to look for Japanese guy friends. Nothing wrong with YOU imbibing with them though. I just don't see how you and an ordinary salaryman can have something in common. What can the both of your talk about?

My first year in Japan I used to go out drinking with this very successful Japanese salaryman named Fumiyo Kayama. The guy has worked his whole life at the same company; he earns a good salary; he has a loving family - according to him. He owns a home in Kyushu. He's in top shape for his age and good looking, I guess. He and I used to hang out with a bunch of twenty something year old fairly attractive Japanese girls on the weekends. He'd pay for everything; dinners, taxi, sake.

He and I had very little in common. He was obviously tired of Japan and wanted to do something fresh and new. I was in love with the country and was traveling all over the country. Two different people.

He loved Shochu, I loved nihonshu. All of the things I had hailed as beautiful he thought were superficial. I thought he was superficial just as a man and thought nothing of him. We didn't really respect each other at all. He hated my lifestyle and I abhored is vanity. Since his wife and family were living in Kyushu, and he, in Yokohama, he thought he could fool around buy trying to show off is economic prowess come dinner time by paying for extravagant meals in order to score cool point with the young ladies! He failed on every attempt! Although I think he did score with one reject, but highly doubt it!

I still regret wasting my time with that ingrate. That fool told me that he didn't see anything good about Japan! It was time for me to go home at that point. Of course he covered the tab!

[McTojo]

I honestly can't figure out where you find your Japanese friends. Most of the Japanese guys I drink with prefer nihonshu over anything else. They might have a beer to start, but then it's nihonshu all the way. Some prefer shochu, but in case you hadn't heard, shochu is known as "nihonshu" in the southern regions.

Of course if you're drinking in Gaspanic or somewhere like that you're not going to find too many nihonshu lovers.

And just FYI, nihonshu can be traced back about 2,000 years. Beer can be traced back to Mesopotamia, approximately 5,000 years ago.

Well....I don't go out of my way to look for Japanese guy friends. Nothing wrong with YOU imbibing with them though. I just don't see how you and an ordinary salaryman can have something in common. What can the both of your talk about?

My first year in Japan I used to go out drinking with this very successful Japanese salaryman named Fumiyo Kayama. The guy has worked his whole life at the same company; he earns a good salary; he has a loving family - according to him. He owns a home in Kyushu. He's in top shape for his age and good looking, I guess. He and I used to hang out with a bunch of twenty something year old fairly attractive Japanese girls on the weekends. He'd pay for everything; dinners, taxi, sake.

He and I had very little in common. He was obviously tired of Japan and wanted to do something fresh and new. I was in love with the country and was traveling all over the country. Two different people.

He loved Shochu, I loved nihonshu. All of the things I had hailed as beautiful he thought were superficial. I thought he was superficial just as a man and thought nothing of him. We didn't really respect each other at all. He hated my lifestyle and I abhored is vanity. Since his wife and family were living in Kyushu, and he, in Yokohama, he thought he could fool around buy trying to show off is economic prowess come dinner time by paying for extravagant meals in order to score cool point with the young ladies! He failed on every attempt! Although I think he did score with one reject, but highly doubt it!

I still regret wasting my time with that ingrate. That fool told me that he didn't see anything good about Japan! It was time for me to go home at that point. Of course he covered the tab!

[Greji]

Well....I don't go out of my way to look for Japanese guy friends. Nothing wrong with YOU imbibing with them though. I just don't see how you and an ordinary salaryman can have something in common. What can the both of your talk about?

I think that explanation pretty well covers the extent of it......

[Mike Oxlong]

And just FYI, nihonshu can be traced back about 2,000 years. Beer can be traced back to Mesopotamia, approximately 5,000 years ago.

Oh, I didn't know that. I was told (by someone vying for the title of father-in-law) that shochu was first brewed about 400 years ago in the Nagasaki area. He claimed that was second to the awamori brewed from about 500 years ago in the Lew Chew Kingdom. Nihonshu predates both of them by 1500 years?

[Yokohammer]

Well....I don't go out of my way to look for Japanese guy friends. Nothing wrong with YOU imbibing with them though. I just don't see how you and an ordinary salaryman can have something in common. What can the both of your talk about?

Ah ... so you know (or have an opinion on) everything there is to know about Japanese culture, yet you don't talk to Japanese men. Somehow I see that as a contradiction.

And salarymen? Try drinking with carpenters some time. Or farmers. Or fishermen. Or shopkeepers. Or Buddhist or Shinto priests. You might actually learn something that way.

Methinks your long-winded impressions of Japan are being acquired through a very small, closed window.

[Yokohammer]

Oh, I didn't know that. I was told (by someone vying for the title of father-in-law) that shochu was first brewed about 400 years ago in the Nagasaki area. He claimed that was second to the awamori brewed from about 500 years ago in the Lew Chew Kingdom. Nihonshu predates both of them by 1500 years?

I believe so. This from the ever-handy Wikipedia:
[quote]The origins of sake are unclear]
The 2,000 year figure comes from ritual sake brewing artifacts discovered from that era, I believe.

The 5,000 year old Mesopotamian beer discovery is relatively recent. They found some remnants in ancient containers. I was most surprised that beer was that much older than sake, but if you think about it it kind of makes sense. You can almost make beer by mistake (from bread), but sake requires a bit more sophistication.

[Mike Oxlong]

Thanks, checked out your link. Seems nihonshu in it's current form is roughly 1500 years old; still plenty old. Always enjoyed it myself, though I am also rather fond of it's cousins shochu and awamori, and also wine, whiskey, beer...aw hell, I like drinking[color="Red"].[/color]

[GomiGirl]

Ah ... so you know (or have an opinion on) everything there is to know about Japanese culture, yet you don't talk to Japanese men. Somehow I see that as a contradiction.

And salarymen? Try drinking with carpenters some time. Or farmers. Or fishermen. Or shopkeepers. Or Buddhist or Shinto priests. You might actually learn something that way.

Methinks your long-winded impressions of Japan are being acquired through a very small, closed window.

+1

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

McTojo confuses me

Is he a persistent troll? Was he bullied in his younger days? Is he a case of "baka gaijin"?

All of the above?

[McTojo]

Ah ... so you know (or have an opinion on) everything there is to know about Japanese culture, yet you don't talk to Japanese men. Somehow I see that as a contradiction.

Good point Yokohammer, but you said Japanese " Men!" This is the point of contention I want to elaborate on more. Japanese men are only men because of their X Y chromosomes, not because of what men have traditionally stood for in societies. The way it has worked is that the women nurture the babies by teaching the baby the native tongue through story telling, daily communication and songs, and also introducing them to their first taste of food. Men work, provide for the family and create a secure environment not only for their own families but for the entire community. All societies and civilizations have done this since Ape Days. Here in Japan, the modern day Japanese man just works and stinks. He never educates his own offspring; no patriotism, no ethics, no sense of moral value to the community is never instilled in today's modern day Japanese boys. The housewives are left feeling insecure and unprotected. Walls are formed and there is no longer any trust in the society and for the people who live in it. The degeneration of today's Japan rest squarely on the shoulders of weak apathetic Japanese men. They should've never laughed at Mishima Yukio.

In every society, men traditionally teach their sons about how to survive, protect and provide in many different forms. The father introduces alcohol, shows him how to handle his first gun, and in some cases teach him how to hunt. The father shows the kids their first Playboy magazine. All of these thing serve as a bond between father and son - the secret they hide from mother. In Japan no. They only teach their boys to be passive observers and whimps and unpatriotic, they never talk about sex and real issues, just vegetate over the dinner table. Half of the rape cases in this country that get reported could've been prevented by a Japanese man who was passing by and chose to ignore it because he feared for his own safety.


Japanese guys and girls hardly know anything about anything and have no interest in learning anything about anything. Sake is still a foreign beverage for the majority of Japanese youth. Many know more about wine and beer than sake. These fools will claim Asian Flush then go an drink down a bottle of wine with their favorite Caucasoid so that they can appear high brow and smug. How dare these guys ask me out for a drink. Are you kidding me!? Sitting there and talking about nonsense and smiling and acting overly obsequious and kissing my ass all night over a beer. No thank you. Let's talk about real issues, things that matter, not some nonsense.

I have taken high school kids to Yasukuni before and when I tell them this they turn their tails up and run. That's a fact! Fucking Whimps!

[6810]

The 5,000 year old Mesopotamian beer discovery is relatively recent. They found some remnants in ancient containers. I was most surprised that beer was that much older than sake, but if you think about it it kind of makes sense. You can almost make beer by mistake (from bread), but sake requires a bit more sophistication.

Actually, "beer" from rice is easy. I have posted about this elsewhere. And since sake is by definition a beer (ie and alcoholic bev made from grain)...

[wuchan]

Actually, "beer" from rice is easy. I have posted about this elsewhere. And since sake is by definition a beer (ie and alcoholic bev made from grain)...

don't need to make rice beer, just pick up a can of Bud.

[wuchan]

In every society, men traditionally teach their sons about how to survive, protect and provide in many different forms. The father introduces alcohol, shows him how to handle his first gun, and in some cases teach him how to hunt. The father shows the kids their first Playboy magazine. All of these thing serve as a bond between father and son - the secret they hide from mother. In Japan no. They only teach their boys to be passive observers and whimps and unpatriotic, they never talk about sex and real issues, just vegetate over the dinner table. Half of the rape cases in this country that get reported could've been prevented by a Japanese man who was passing by and chose to ignore it because he feared for his own safety.

um.... not in my neighborhood. Booze/drugs came from friends and pops tried to kick the shit out of me for it. Porn comes from the internet and pops tried to steal it. Survival was exactly that, learn or have no teeth.

Here the problem is not a lack of daddy attention it is a lack of discipline from both parents. Daddy is usually at work 10 hours a day six days a week so he cant help keep the kids in line. He becomes a part time family member who is usually drunk and angry, basically oni. Mommy, in many cases, is more concerned with gossiping and having fun rather than watching the kids. Parents seem to believe that the school is responsible for teaching discipline. Sexual education is almost non existent in japanese schools and the three monkey attitude towards it in japanese culture doesn't help.

[GomiGirl]

OMG - the stereotypes and generalisations are alive and well on this thread.

So while everybody is feeling so superior, perhaps you can think about broadening your horizons by getting to know people rather than just making value judgements from the peanut gallery.

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

OMG - the stereotypes and generalisations are alive and well on this thread.

So while everybody is feeling so superior, perhaps you can think about broadening your horizons by getting to know people rather than just making value judgements from the peanut gallery.

This

[nottu]

[6810]

don't need to make rice beer, just pick up a can of Bud.

Why pick up Bud when both Kirin and Asahi "supplement" their brews with not only rice, but corn starch too?!

And since a pack of kouji rice costs 300 yen and makes over 2 liters of "beer" just one more reason to say "thanks, but no thanks " to Bud...

[6810]

OMG - the stereotypes and generalisations are alive and well on this thread.

So while everybody is feeling so superior, perhaps you can think about broadening your horizons by getting to know people rather than just making value judgements from the peanut gallery.

Indeed. I love how people around here (and foreigners generally) talk about Japanese like they actually know any. Get out into your neighborhood. There be some good peoples out there beyond the eikaiwa/salaryman bubble!

[Samurai_Jerk]

I honestly can't figure out where you find your Japanese friends. Most of the Japanese guys I drink with prefer nihonshu over anything else. They might have a beer to start, but then it's nihonshu all the way. Some prefer shochu, but in case you hadn't heard, shochu is known as "nihonshu" in the southern regions.

So are you saying that most the guys you know drink shochu or nihonshu (as in "sake")?

Most of the regular-Joe Japanese guys (as in non-English speaking, non-Westernized) drink Shochu. More bang for the buck. I only see the 50 plus crowd drinking nihonshu regularly. When you consider that fact that a bottle of shochu costs less than three large beers in most bars, you can understand why people drink it.

[Yokohammer]

So are you saying that most the guys you know drink shochu or nihonshu (as in "sake")?

Most of the regular-Joe Japanese guys (as in non-English speaking, non-Westernized) drink Shochu. More bang for the buck. I only see the 50 plus crowd drinking nihonshu regularly. When you consider that fact that a bottle of shochu costs less than three large beers in most bars, you can understand why people drink it.

Since I fall pretty squarely into 50-plus category myself, and tend to drink with people around my age, you can see where I'm coming from.

I think it also depends on whether you drink with a corporate or non-corporate crowd. I tend to hang with people who work for themselves, and they seem to go for the nihonshu and shochu. That doesn't mean that if there's a bottle of wine open they won't drink it, but at the end of the day it'll usually be one of the former.

[Blah Pete]

The big plus is shochu doesn't give much (if any) of a hangover or the nasty whiskey breath the next morning.

[Yokohammer]

The big plus is shochu doesn't give much (if any) of a hangover or the nasty whiskey breath the next morning.

You're not drinking enough of it.

[SpikeX]

The big plus is shochu doesn't give much (if any) of a hangover or the nasty whiskey breath the next morning.

What about memory loss?

[Greji]

What about memory loss?

Loss of what?

[SpikeX]

Loss of what?

who needs huh?

I seem to lose track of most of the night more often with sake.
Anybody else?

[rooboy]

I still regret wasting my time with that ingrate. That fool told me that he didn't see anything good about Japan! It was time for me to go home at that point. Of course he covered the tab!

Uh, YOU'RE calling a J guy who paid for you to pig out 'an ingrate' and you accuse him of 'wasting' your time...

And earlier you said Japanese people who didn't like that crappy swill called nihonshu had a 'mental illness'...

[TennoChinko]

Understanding the basics of alcohol flush reaction aka "Asian flush" isn't rocket science. The OP appears to get the basics but does not seem to quite understand that those with one defective ALDH2 iso-enzyme can often drink but develop a resistance to the acetaldehyde that gets produced fast & early. This is why those regular drinkers who take a break from drinking discover that when then resume, their tolerance is initially often very low.