Living Expenses Estimate

[Taka-Okami]

I haven't lived in Japan for years, so I'm kind of guessing what my expenses might be. See below, and please comment if possible. Now since I have 2 small kids I think expenses will go up - although school is free isnt it? Assume wife stays home as well.

Rent (3LDK) 80000
food 50000 (2 people - not including restaurants)
car insurance 8500
electricity 8000
gas 4000
internet 3000
telephone 3000
water 2000
Hous insurance 4500
rego 12500
Car 1 petrol 20000
extras 30000

All in yen per month
This would be one of the suburbs around Nagoya, but not in Nagoya as such.

Too cheeeeep?

[Taro Toporific]

This would be one of the suburbs around Nagoya, but not in Nagoya as such.
Too cheeeeep?

Damn. Is Nagoya that cheap?!
Your estimates for Rent and Food for a family of four seem to be 50% lower than for Tokyo (and you forgot car parking fees that average 15,000-30,000 yen/m).
Of course, anything is "doable" since many oppressed/dispossessed young Japanese families live on typical budgets like that (just not any Western FG families).
Why subject your kids to such hardships?

[Taka-Okami]

Yeah parking was 5k at my old apartment. I had a 2LDK and was paying 38k/month so I thought 80k would be done easy for 3LDK. Food pay have to go to 70k? Was I on the money for rest of items?

[Taka-Okami]

Somthing like this http://rent.homes.co.jp/detail/bid=36000290001669/ would be ok enough for me.

[IkemenTommy]

You left out the Keitai expense.

[FG Lurker]

Based on your budget it seems like you are hoping to support a family of 4 on an English teacher's typical salary (net 220,000/month or so). I don't think this is doable. I suppose if you cut enough corners you might be able to get by, but not with any level of comfort. Forget savings, holidays, or any chance at all of making the occasional trip back to Australia.

You've also left things off the list such as keitais (10,000 to 20,000/month each) and medical insurance. For the car you have forgotten yearly road tax and semiannual shaken. You also need to budget for non-planned items such as car repairs, hospitals (they aren't free here, even with national health), and probably a host of other things that I never think about but add up in a big hurry.

I think you need to figure out what sort of work your wife can do to contribute to family finances. An extra 80,000 to 100,000/month would go a long way to making your life in Japan bearable.

Finally, if you are planning to teach English, you should realize that the eikaiwa world here has changed dramatically. There isn't a lot of stability any more and schools of all sizes are having financial troubles. Japan never really recovered from the 1990 bubble burst and the 2008 crash has pushed people to spend even less. Eikaiwa is a discretionary expense and it is one that people are cutting. I'm not saying "don't come", but I am saying that you shouldn't count on eikaiwa as a stable job that will guarantee you at least 220,000yen in hand every month.

[Taka-Okami]

Based on your budget it seems like you are hoping to support a family of 4 on an English teacher's typical salary (net 220,000/month or so). I don't think this is doable. I suppose if you cut enough corners you might be able to get by, but not with any level of comfort. Forget savings, holidays, or any chance at all of making the occasional trip back to Australia.

You've also left things off the list such as keitais (10,000 to 20,000/month each) and medical insurance. For the car you have forgotten yearly road tax and semiannual shaken. You also need to budget for non-planned items such as car repairs, hospitals (they aren't free here, even with national health), and probably a host of other things that I never think about but add up in a big hurry.

I think you need to figure out what sort of work your wife can do to contribute to family finances. An extra 80,000 to 100,000/month would go a long way to making your life in Japan bearable.

Finally, if you are planning to teach English, you should realize that the eikaiwa world here has changed dramatically. There isn't a lot of stability any more and schools of all sizes are having financial troubles. Japan never really recovered from the 1990 bubble burst and the 2008 crash has pushed people to spend even less. Eikaiwa is a discretionary expense and it is one that people are cutting. I'm not saying "don't come", but I am saying that you shouldn't count on eikaiwa as a stable job that will guarantee you at least 220,000yen in hand every month.

Thanks for that. The costing I indicated in the first post really wasnt a budget, but was a first attempt to get good info off you insiders so that I could develop a good estimate, and see how much I would need to make to even think about shifting to Japan.

I dont think I will have to do any Eikaiwa as I'm developing other areas in import/export at the moment. I dont really want to force the wife out to work, so I'm thinking that 400 to 500k/month would be sufficient and allow a little savings as well.

I was hoping that I might be able to knock over purchasing a house outright when I got there, but you wont get much for 20million where I want to live, unless its a used apartment. So I'd probably just rent out and save up until PR and get a loan I guess.

[IkemenTommy]

I was hoping that I might be able to knock over purchasing a house outright when I got there, but you wont get much for 20million where I want to live, unless its a used apartment. So I'd probably just rent out and save up until PR and get a loan I guess.

The subject of buying a home deserves a separate thread of its own, and I am sure you can search around for the answer. My one advice-- DON'T and for various reasons:
- dwindling population especially outside of Tokyo
- "mansions" have average life spans of 30-50 years before they have to be demolished; purchasing a mansion is like throwing away your money when you don't even get to own the piece of land
- most Japanese home buyers do not want to buy used homes (look how popular home builders like Daiwa haujus are) if you plan to sell it
-shitty capital gains

With the ever decreasing and aging population problem Japan faces, you can bet that property values at most places are also decreasing because of simple supply and demand macro-economics. Take a look at Yubari city in Hokkaido. That place became a ghost town and the property value is cheap as dirt (I still wouldn't own it though). The exception to this is Tokyo where its milking the ever steady population flow of the inaka bunch from the countrysides but the problem is.. it's too god damned expensive to buy a property in Tokyo. You are in Aichi, the town that has nothing much more than Toyota-related jobs, will probably face the same fate some day as the automotive-centric suburbs of Michigan that were hit hard due to the recent economy. There it was for the first time ever in known history that a city bulldozed itself back to nature.

I simply do not plan to own a home here because I do not plan to stay here forever. Of course, if you plan to slave as a salaryman for some XYZ Japanese company for the rest of your life with guaranteed pension plan, job stability (in this age?), and never have to move around, then the Japanese dream is all yours.

[Yokohammer]

There are lots of good reasons to buy a home outright if you're going to commit to being here for the long term.

Renting = throwing money away. You'll never get any of it back.
If you own a home, you get something back even if you take a loss when you sell it. How financially viable that is depends on how long you live there. The rural housing market pretty much stinks as it is, so you probably wouldn't incur a huge loss. If you're here long enough you'll probably make a profit, although it may not be a huge one.

The ideal situation (my opinion) is to buy a relatively inexpensive property out of town with cash, if at all possible, and put up with the commute if you work in town. Do that and you can cut rent out of your expenses right away. Also, if the economy really does tank you have sort of a "safe haven" for yourself and family, assuming you don't have other debts.

Don't think of it as an investment. Think of it as a way to save money in the long run, and as some protection against possible economic disaster.

Of course ... the best laid plans of mice and men ... anything can go wrong, no matter where you are.

[Taka-Okami]

There are lots of good reasons to buy a home outright if you're going to commit to being here for the long term.

Renting = throwing money away. You'll never get any of it back.
If you own a home, you get something back even if you take a loss when you sell it. How financially viable that is depends on how long you live there. The rural housing market pretty much stinks as it is, so you probably wouldn't incur a huge loss. If you're here long enough you'll probably make a profit, although it may not be a huge one.

The ideal situation (my opinion) is to buy a relatively inexpensive property out of town with cash, if at all possible, and put up with the commute if you work in town. Do that and you can cut rent out of your expenses right away. Also, if the economy really does tank you have sort of a "safe haven" for yourself and family, assuming you don't have other debts.

Don't think of it as an investment. Think of it as a way to save money in the long run, and as some protection against possible economic disaster.

Of course ... the best laid plans of mice and men ... anything can go wrong, no matter where you are.

Thats pretty much what I was thinking. Once you've got a place of your own without a mortgage & not having to pay rent, your gonna be alright - provided there isnt any wars or large earthquakes! I would much rather spend the rest of my life in Japan than where I am now.

[dimwit]

Rent (3LDK) 80000
food 50000 (2 people - not including restaurants)
car insurance 8500
electricity 8000
gas 4000
internet 3000
telephone 3000
water 2000
Hous insurance 4500
rego 12500
Car 1 petrol 20000
extras 30000

Gas and electricity seem a bit on the cheap side. With oil at 80 bucks a barrel, I haven't paid less than 10,000 for electricity and 7,000 for gas in a number of years and that is with only one kid. Water depends on the city, but out here, where we are prone to water shortages, 4,000 a month is more like it.

[Coligny]

We was paying this rent for a 3ldk pet allowed in Yagoto (Nagoya)... Shitty building but daughter of the owner was like... OHHH MY SCHWIIIINGGG... bad luck I discovered her the day I left...

If you live and work in Nagoya... Forget aboot the car... rent something the day you need it. Traffic is like a nightmare inside a nightmare inside a nightmare...

Now I don't want to poop the party... but Nagoya nearly drove me on the edge of insanity. Now I only go twice a month for an afternoon... and everytime I run back to Toyohashi... The day there's no train i'll leave by foot if necessary... Nagoya is so cramped, dirty, sweaty, stinky, parc full of homeless tentcity, buildings, highway bridges, cars, cars, cars, more cars... noise... arrrrgllll

[Mike Oxlong]

If you live and work in Nagoya... Forget aboot the car... rent something the day you need it. Traffic is like a nightmare inside a nightmare inside a nightmare...

Now I don't want to poop the party... but Nagoya nearly drove me on the edge of insanity. Now I only go twice a month for an afternoon... and everytime I run back to Toyohashi... The day there's no train i'll leave by foot if necessary... Nagoya is so cramped, dirty, sweaty, stinky, parc full of homeless tentcity, buildings, highway bridges, cars, cars, cars, more cars... noise... arrrrgllll

You're right, of course. Worked there for a few years, only to find...there are worse places.

[Taka-Okami]

We was paying this rent for a 3ldk pet allowed in Yagoto (Nagoya)... Shitty building but daughter of the owner was like... OHHH MY SCHWIIIINGGG... bad luck I discovered her the day I left...

If you live and work in Nagoya... Forget aboot the car... rent something the day you need it. Traffic is like a nightmare inside a nightmare inside a nightmare...

Now I don't want to poop the party... but Nagoya nearly drove me on the edge of insanity. Now I only go twice a month for an afternoon... and everytime I run back to Toyohashi... The day there's no train i'll leave by foot if necessary... Nagoya is so cramped, dirty, sweaty, stinky, parc full of homeless tentcity, buildings, highway bridges, cars, cars, cars, more cars... noise... arrrrgllll

Meh, I rode a motorbike from Kasugai into Nagoya for years. Was a great ride with the lane splitting and all. I hated taking the train - too slow!

[CrankyBastard]

Why the indecision?
You want to give it a try, go ahead.
Just pack up and do it. You already have a Japanese wife so you know it aint just YBF that's drawing you.
Actually, having a Japanese wife should make it a breeze for you here.
Put less store into how much it'll cost and more store into how much effort you're both willing to make to succeed at it.
JMHO, good luck.

[Taka-Okami]

Why the indecision?
You want to give it a try, go ahead.
Just pack up and do it. You already have a Japanese wife so you know it aint just YBF that's drawing you.
Actually, having a Japanese wife should make it a breeze for you here.
Put less store into how much it'll cost and more store into how much effort you're both willing to make to succeed at it.
JMHO, good luck.

Yeah I hear you, the wierd thing is I'm having to talk the misus into moving back, rather than her asking me. I would have thought it would be the other way around. But anyway Ive got to decide soon, im 35, and getting almost too old to change careers again. I've been doing project engineering (shit farms and such) for the last few years, but there aint no scope in Japan for that I reckons.

Even her whole family reckons we shouldnt move back due to the poor economy over there, or maybe they just dont want to a gaijin so often.

[Coligny]

Yeah I hear you, the wierd thing is I'm having to talk the misus into moving back, rather than her asking me. I would have thought it would be the other way around. But anyway Ive got to decide soon, im 35, and getting almost too old to change careers again. I've been doing project engineering (shit farms and such) for the last few years, but there aint no scope in Japan for that I reckons.

Even her whole family reckons we shouldnt move back due to the poor economy over there, or maybe they just dont want to a gaijin so often.

My Hairdresser in Paris was from Tokyo (father rich business man or something) She married a French motor engineer working for Renault. The guy had a promotion and was selected to go to work with Nissan for the new engine development in Japan...

She outright refused and asked him to go in Romania instead for the collaboration with Dacia that lead to the Logan small sedan (selling like hotcakes actually)...

Sometimes... when they live... they have good reason...

[Coligny]

Meh, I rode a motorbike from Kasugai into Nagoya for years. Was a great ride with the lane splitting and all. I hated taking the train - too slow!

Toyohashi Nagoya... 2 hours by car... 45 minutes by train... And I have yet to try reading a book while driving... (my bimonthly routine include picnic in the train and quite time for reading...)

[FG Lurker]

Yeah I hear you, the wierd thing is I'm having to talk the misus into moving back, rather than her asking me. I would have thought it would be the other way around.

Actually it's not that uncommon at all, especially if she has been overseas for quite some time.

[Doctor Stop]

Yeah I hear you, the wierd thing is I'm having to talk the misus into moving back, rather than her asking me.

I guess that's because she doesn't want to move to a shithole suburb of a shithole like Nagoya. There are worse places in Japan to move to but there also are lot better.

[Mulboyne]

As others say, there are reasons why your wife might not be as enthusiastic as your are for moving to Japan.

Perhaps none of the following apply in your specific case, but it's not uncommon for Japanese women living abroad to consider the following:

(1) Living in Japan can bring back a lot of onerous obligations to family, friends and neighbours which she is relatively free from while living overseas.

(2) Even after a number of years, and with all the moaning about things that go wrong, living abroad can still seem like an enjoyable adventure.

(3) Living in your country together, you can handle all daily interactions. If your Japanese isn't 100%, then you'll be highly dependent on your wife in Japan. At worst, you'll be like another child for a while. You may not want your wife to work but she may end up with a lot more chores than she currently has.

(4) She might be concerned at how your children will adapt to school in Japan. More specifically, whether they will face issues not being fully Japanese.

(5) If you have stable employment right now, she might be concerned at giving that up for all the uncertainty of a new start while you have two young children.

(6) She might wonder how much she'll see you compared with the time she has now, given that husbands in Japan frequently end up working long hours or hanging out with work colleagues.

(7) She might be concerned that you'll stray more easily, especially if you spend more time out drinking and entertaining.

etc etc.

She might have none of these concerns but they might be worth bearing in mind in case they surface later.

[Coligny]

As others say, there are reasons why your wife might not be as enthusiastic as your are for moving to Japan.
(...)

Deserve to be written in stone...

Greiji. do you still have one of the gutemberg magic writing thingamabob that put copist monks out of a job few years ago ?

[SIZE="1"]-One day... making fun of the carbon dated fossil on this forum will stop being funny... ehmmm... This day is NOT for today...[/SIZE]

[Greji]

Greiji. do you still have one of the gutemberg magic writing thingamabob that put copist monks out of a job few years ago ?

No, not anymore. Ever since me and the fellows took the vows, we done been silenced....

[Samurai_Jerk]

(5) If you have stable employment right now, she might be concerned at giving that up for all the uncertainty of a new start while you have two young children.

Any guy in this situation who gives up his job to live in Japan just because he likes it more or some other warm fuzzy shit is a fucking asshole and shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

The same goes for Japanese wives who suddenly try to force their husbands to move to the mother land because they miss their mommy or don't want their kids to be "too foreign".

[Coligny]

Any guy in this situation who gives up his job to live in Japan just because he likes it more or some other warm fuzzy shit is a fucking asshole and shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

The same goes for Japanese wives who suddenly try to force their husbands to move to the mother land because they miss their mommy or don't want their kids to be "too foreign".

Once again... have to put that on marble stone...

(might need to rephrase a bit though...)

[SIZE="1"](still don't know what i'm doing dere... but kinda got used to actually receive my mail parcels instead of having them stolen by the post office with the usual -our workers are not well paid you have to understand they need to steal your shit in order to survive- excuse...)[/SIZE]

[Taka-Okami]

Any guy in this situation who gives up his job to live in Japan just because he likes it more or some other warm fuzzy shit is a fucking asshole and shouldn't have had kids in the first place.

The same goes for Japanese wives who suddenly try to force their husbands to move to the mother land because they miss their mommy or don't want their kids to be "too foreign".

I tend to disagree with the above. Why live or work in a place you hate? Life's too short to do that.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I tend to disagree with the above. Why live or work in a place you hate? Life's too short to do that.

Once you have kids your life belongs to them.

[tidbits]

Once you have kids your life belongs to them.

TRUE.

Don't want to turn this into my thread, but I do face similar issue and Mulboyne had said a few things right, in my case. You are the bread winner, I supposed everyone in the family just have to follow you anyway. I hope both of you agree with the decision and best of luck to you. If your wife is happy with the decision, I am sure everything will workout fine, it is her home country here anyway.

Not sure how old are your kids, beside keitai, usually there will be some sport/ music/abacus etc "classes/schools" fee for the kids.(e.g swimming lesson is about Yen 6000/per month per kid)

[tokyoboy]

Not to mention you will be paying for their education - middle/highschool and university. Do not come over here without some employment in the bag beforehand...that would be a potential mess of incalculable levels for all parties involved (your family and your wife's).