Japan: how do you integrate yourself?

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

I thought it might be useful with a thread where people can ask general questions around how you can integrate yourself in Japan. That way, the less experienced gaijin can receive tips from the more experienced ones. I know that I have many questions, so I will probably bump this thread every once in a while..

At the moment I only have two big questions:

--

1. How to deal with compliments?

Holy f*** the Japanese give a lot of compliments! I've actually read that a lot(if not most) of these compliments are just given as a act of friendliness. So if you are called "cool", it does not necessarily mean that they think you ARE cool. But, in some occasions, it is clear that they really mean what they say. So, how are you going to deal with it?

Honestly, I still don't know. I've tried three different solutions. 1) Say "thank you", 2) Say "I know", 3) Ignore.

My favorite is without doubt number 3. But the problem with this solution, is that I am only able to do it when I am doing sports. It is not natural to thank someone in the middle of a game, so you are "off the hook". But when you are in the middle of a conversation, and suddenly receive a compliment, you can't just ignore it. It's even worse when random people come up to you, only to give you a compliment.

When I thank someone, it usually results in them saying something like "aww, how cute". And then I feel like a total idiot. If I act cocky and say "I know", people are just blown away by my rudeness. This is clearly the worst solution..

I've heard that you are supposed to deny the compliment, but that goes against every thing I stand for. Denying the truth is not my style. But if this really is the only way to deal with compliments in Japan, I guess I have no choice? Can anyone think of another way?


2. What the hell is a "friend"?!

If I am not mistaken, there are several words in the Japanese language whichcan be translated to "friend". But I think the Japanese have a different way of thinking, when they use the word "friend". In my opinion, a friend is someone you really enjoy spending time with, and really care about. Something deeper then the classmates you party with, or the guys you play football with. I just counted how many people I consider "friends". Only 10 people have this "honor".

In Japan, people would describe my classmates as my friends. And if I went out partying with someone, they safely assumed that we were friends back in our home country. When I denied this, they were really shocked. "But you have gone out drinking so many times! How can he not be your friend? You seem to get along so well!"..

Is this a cultural difference, or is it just a communication misunderstanding? Does the Japanese people really think you are friends with people you get along with, or is the word "tomodachi" something you can use recklessly? If the latter is the case, which words should I then use to describe the people I think of as friends? I really don't feel comfortable with putting all the people I get along with in the same box as my real friends...

[FG Lurker]

Japan: how do you integrate yourself?

I've never wanted to integrate here. It's much, much better to be a gaijin outside Japanese society than it is to try to integrate.

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

It's not like I'm trying to become Japanese or anything. That's just mission impossible..

But there are some situations(like those I described) where you seem like a douche if you don't know how to act.. And I don't want to be that guy

[TheNYCSobaIncident]

[Cyka UchuuJin]

It's not like I'm trying to become Japanese or anything. That's just mission impossible..

But there are some situations(like those I described) where you seem like a douche if you don't know how to act.. And I don't want to be that guy

no matter what you do, you will be that guy in the eyes of the japanese.

fact.

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

no matter what you do, you will be that guy in the eyes of the japanese.

fact.

I was waiting for this comment :P

But, not ALL gaijin deserve to have "baka" in front him/her... I refuse to believe that everyone in this forum is looked upon like a total idiot by _ALL_ the Japanese

Of course there is nothing to do with the most racist people...

[maraboutslim]

1. How to deal with compliments?

Honestly, I still don't know. I've tried three different solutions. 1) Say "thank you", 2) Say "I know", 3) Ignore.

If you're interested in "integrating" yourself into Japanese society, surely you should have noticed that the Japanese choose 4) deny/reject it. Either say "nah, i'm not so good" type comment or some other sort of self-deprecating comment that shows you don't see yourself as anything special.

Even if you are not really that humble, you're supposed to fake it dude.

[Iraira]

If you're interested in "integrating" yourself into Japanese society, surely you should have noticed that the Japanese choose 4) deny/reject it. Either say "nah, i'm not so good" type comment or some other sort of self-deprecating comment that shows you don't see yourself as anything special.

Even if you are not really that humble, you're supposed to fake it dude.

Agree, however, it's hard to put on a fake humbleness regarding some of the crap you get complimented for.
"Wow, you are very good with hashi"
"Yeah, I got a silver medal in the 2002 Oympics for artistic chopstick manipulation, why with a pair of chopsticks, I can grab ahold of and drag a fruit fly around by it's tiny exoskeleton penis, wanna see?"

I mean, how am I supposed to be humble to a question like that? Stab the questioner in the eye with the chopsticks and say, "nah, I'm not so good"?

[Christoff]

Agree, however, it's hard to put on a fake humbleness regarding some of the crap you get complimented for.
"Wow, you are very good with hashi"
"Yeah, I got a silver medal in the 2002 Oympics for artistic chopstick manipulation, why with a pair of chopsticks, I can grab ahold of and drag a fruit fly around by it's tiny exoskeleton penis, wanna see?"

I mean, how am I supposed to be humble to a question like that? Stab the questioner in the eye with the chopsticks and say, "nah, I'm not so good"?

sarcasm will not help you fit in as the japanese have not developed a taste or understanding of it.

[Taka-Okami]

sarcasm will not help you fit in as the japanese have not developed a taste or understanding of it.

And the lengthy explanation of what "does a bear shit in the woods?" means to the misus took all the fun out of it!

[Yokohammer]

I've never wanted to integrate here. It's much, much better to be a gaijin outside Japanese society than it is to try to integrate.

This really is the answer.
And you really don't have any choice in the matter.

It's possible to make a pretty good life out of that situation, whereas trying to be accepted as an equal in every sense will just turn you into a bitter basket case in the long run. Be different, and enjoy it. Being able to speak, read, and write the language, or being able to bow to precisely the required number of degrees in every possible situation, or having an encyclopedic knowledge of the history and culture ... all of these are advantages that are best used in creating a comfortable life as an outsider, because despite what some people want to believe they won't make you more equal, just more of an oddity.

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

If you're interested in "integrating" yourself into Japanese society, surely you should have noticed that the Japanese choose 4) deny/reject it. Either say "nah, i'm not so good" type comment or some other sort of self-deprecating comment that shows you don't see yourself as anything special.

Even if you are not really that humble, you're supposed to fake it dude.

So there is no other way? I will just have to adjust then. Still, I will find it hard to describe myself as "not good looking at all" , "no good at sports" or "unintelligent"...

I guess your reply also gives the answer to another question I had in mind:

3. Does The Law of Jante apply to Japan?

[Yokohammer]

3. Does The Law of Jante apply to Japan?

If you integrate ... yes.

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

Be different, and enjoy it.

I know that I am always going to be different, and believe me: I am enjoying it! But that doesn't mean I can't adapt A LITTLE?

If you focus on the questions I asked in the topic, you will quickly discover that they represent a rather "harmless" way of integrating. I only asked question 1 because I want to know how I can appear like a more likeable person. And question 2 is something that I want to know, because I don't like misunderstandings..

Knowing how to bow or how to use honorifics perfectly may be a bit too much, but personally, I wouldn't be able to enjoy life in Japan nearly as much as I can now, if it weren't for my language skills. Knowing how to communicate is essential in my opinion. It is boring as hell to only hang around in bars/communities were English speakers and gaijin hunters are waiting for you...

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

If you integrate ... yes.

I kind of figured :P

Well, at least the Japanese are more friendly than people in the other Jante-countries. This is at least my opinion..

[CrankyBastard]

You've got two choices,
gaijin or henna gaijin.

[Yokohammer]

I know that I am always going to be different, and believe me: I am enjoying it! But that doesn't mean I can't adapt A LITTLE?

Oh I see, sure. "Integrate" is not what you're actually talking about. "Adapt" is closer, but it's more like "finding the groove and dancing in it."

I only asked question 1 because I want to know how I can appear like a more likeable person.

I really don't think you even need to worry about this. If you are a likable person, you will be accepted as such. Trying to "appear like a more likable person" is likely to get in the way.

And question 2 is something that I want to know, because I don't like misunderstandings..

This really is a tricky one. From my experience most Japanese only consider people with whom they've shared time in the same "group," and of course people they get along with, to be friends. People they went to school with or worked in the same company with. But then occasionally a Japanese person will decide that he or she and I are friends, and that's it! I'm afraid I really don't have a cut and dry answer for this one.

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

Hmm, thanks for your reply!

The friend-thing really is tricky. But then again, it is a bit easier to describe people under a single word, than for instance saying "a guy I know" :P

[CrankyBastard]

Hmm, thanks for your reply!

The friend-thing really is tricky. But then again, it is a bit easier to describe people under a single word, than for instance saying "a guy I know" :P

After almost fifty years here, I have a lot of Japanese 'tomodachi'/friends and I like to think that they consider me to be a 'tomodachi'/friend.
But I have no japanese "nakama" nor am I considered to be a "nakama" by any Japanese.

[Christoff]

in a greater effort to fit in you may also consider taking on some other japanese habits such as going on knife wielding rampages, develop a affinity for groping start a collection of stolen woman's underwear or bras...

[Yokohammer]

[Mock Cockpit]

Don't be a flake at work meaning don't take random days off, get there on time, don't lose your rag.
Don't annoy your neighbours with obvious shit, noise late at night, learn how, where and when to chuck out your rubbish. They might still hate you but fuckem.
Other than that enjoy the fact that you have a "get out of playing all the bullshit games Japanese are forced to play" card.
Oh yeah, get good at being passive aggressive.

[CrankyBastard]

[Samurai_Jerk]

Knowing how to bow or how to use honorifics perfectly may be a bit too much, but personally, I wouldn't be able to enjoy life in Japan nearly as much as I can now, if it weren't for my language skills. Knowing how to communicate is essential in my opinion. It is boring as hell to only hang around in bars/communities were English speakers and gaijin hunters are waiting for you...

While I'm certainly not into the gaijin bar scene and do think that learning the language has helped make life here a lot better, overall I've found that the better my Japanese gets the less interest I have in speaking with Japanese people.

[maraboutslim]

Agree, however, it's hard to put on a fake humbleness regarding some of the crap you get complimented for.
"Wow, you are very good with hashi"
"Yeah, I got a silver medal in the 2002 Oympics for artistic chopstick manipulation, why with a pair of chopsticks, I can grab ahold of and drag a fruit fly around by it's tiny exoskeleton penis, wanna see?"

I mean, how am I supposed to be humble to a question like that? Stab the questioner in the eye with the chopsticks and say, "nah, I'm not so good"?

You know, but for the OP's benefit, we should make sure he realizes that, often times (most times?) a compliment in Japanese, especially to a gaijin, isn't even intended to be a compliment in the sense he is used to. Consider the "nihongo jouzu desu ne," you are likely to get as a beginning Japanese speaker. They don't seriously think you speak Japanese well or use chopsticks well. And they aren't really insulting you sarcastically either (as covered elsewhere in this thread), and all it probably means is something like, "hey, there's a gaijin here trying to do stuff we japanese do, this confuses me..."

Just shake your head and say "iie" or some such thing or just smile (that's what japanese do when they are uncomfortable or afraid or anxious or embarrassed...basically anytime when a smile is the last thing you'd expect to see in "the west").

FWIW, on the chopstick thing, you could just say, "yeah, there are a lot of chinese restaurants back home..." and then the japanese might feel stupid.

[Ganma]

While I'm certainly not into the gaijin bar scene and do think that learning the language has helped make life here a lot better, overall I've found that the better my Japanese gets the less interest I have in speaking with Japanese people.

Yes. The "o-hasi ga jouzu" conversation never gets any better no matter how good your Japanese is.
My experience is that the more interesting Japanese people are the ones that tend to speak English and/or have lived abroad and thus have a broader outlook on life. However the average J bloke seems to be locked within that 'Senpai' 'Kouhai' mentality which is alien to those of us brought up in the West.

[hu5h]

wth, how do you not know this? are you really trying to integrate or just trying to convince yourself that everybody else are integrating to you??

2. dont be a douche. being a friend is relative.

[FG Lurker]

FWIW, on the chopstick thing, you could just say, "yeah, there are a lot of chinese restaurants back home..." and then the japanese might feel stupid.

Depending on my mood at the time (and the person who made the stupid comment) I sometimes say something about how learning Japanese took a lot more effort than mastering chopsticks...

[Taro Toporific]

...how do you integrate yourself?...

"I don't care to belong to any club that will have me as a member."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Groucho_Marx

[Ikemen-of-d00m]

"nihongo jouzu desu ne,"

Classic! After only a year of studying Japanese, strangers would always tell me that I was "perapera"... What kind of robot-European becomes fluent that quickly?! :P