Shifting to Nara

[Taka-Okami]

I'm thinking of shifting to Nara city. Does anyone from here live there? Is it any good?

[FG Lurker]

I'm thinking of shifting to Nara city. Does anyone from here live there? Is it any good?

I live in Osaka but in the past worked occasionally in Nara and for a stint in Ikoma, which is in Nara Prefecture near the border with Osaka (it's on the Nara side of Mt Ikoma.)

On the plus side it is a quiet place to live and there is a lot of green around. Nara park is huge, as long as you don't mind all the deer. It's not a large city but the basics are all there for daily life.

Osaka, Kobe, and Kyoto are all larger and will offer more in the way of shopping and international food stores. Osaka or Kobe especially are close to Costco which is a bonus.

Nara is a bit inconvenient for transport, there is no shinkansen station and you are 90 to 120mins from Kansai International Airport as well. The closest Shinkansen stations will be either Kyoto or Osaka, depending on where you live in Nara and if you use Kintetsu or JR. Inside Nara city there is no subway (it's not big enough to support a subway system) so public transport is bus based.

If you have specific questions I can try to answer them or point you in the right direction.

[Taka-Okami]

Thanks for the info FG.

The reason I ask is that the misus wanted to get into the tourist industry over there, and I'm currently working on some ideas for business - still havent latch onto a superlative idea yet. The general idea is that she didnt want to live in Kyoto or Osaka, but to be kind of close to either. House prices seem very reasonable as well.

Speaking about house prices. In my neck of the woods (Melbourne) a suburb 5 km from the city they are asking like 30 million yen for a 1LDK probably about 20 to 30 years old! For a similar sized city in population (Nagoya say) I can grab a 1LDK MUCH cheaper, like half. No wonder I want to move back to NIPPON!! HUGE house BUBBLE. Just like in CANADA!!

[Yokohammer]

Speaking about house prices. In my neck of the woods (Melbourne) a suburb 5 km from the city they are asking like 30 million yen for a 1LDK probably about 20 to 30 years old! For a similar sized city in population (Nagoya say) I can grab a 1LDK MUCH cheaper, like half. No wonder I want to move back to NIPPON!! HUGE house BUBBLE. Just like in CANADA!!

The Melbourne housing market has gone nuts, hasn't it?

That's where I'm from, and I was thinking I might move back one day. Back in around '85 I was looking at properties in the suburbs. I have relatives in Bentleigh (25-30 minutes from the city by train, for those not familiar with the place), and there were some really nice houses available for around A$180,000 ~ 240,000. Now you need to cough up anywhere from A$500,000* to A$700,000 for the same thing. Don't think I'll be buying a home in or near Melbourne anytime soon.

I can sort of understand why you want to move back over here if you've lived here before. Just keep in mind that settling in *permanently* is a helluva lot different that just being here for a limited stay.

* A$500,000 is about 40 million yen at the current rate ... even though only about 3 years ago it was closer to 50 million.

[FG Lurker]

House prices seem very reasonable as well.

Condo builders are pretty desperate to sell these days. If you have cash in hand to buy a place you should be able to play hardball for a pretty good discount. For a new place in Osaka you can push for 5mil to 8mil yen off, even 10mil off isn't impossible if the developer is desperate, which many of them are. I'm not sure how similar the situation is in Nara or Kyoto. Developers in Osaka (and maybe elsewhere?) way overbuilt condos during the credit bubble and now are left holding places that people don't want to buy (or can't get credit to buy).

[Edit: The discounts mentioned are based on a 3LDK place that would normally have been listed for around 35mil yen.]

[Taka-Okami]

Where abouts in Osaka would those apartments be?

[FG Lurker]

Where abouts in Osaka would those apartments be?

Condos in general (in Osaka anyway) aren't selling well. Of course places closer to stations or in more desirable areas will be easier to sell than ones a bit further from the station or somewhere a bit out of the city. I've been handed pamphlets that openly advertise discounts as high as 6mil yen, and that's just what they are willing to offer to anyone without even being asked. You can do far better once you sit down and start talking. The figures I quoted in my previous message (up to 10mil off a 35mil yen place) are directly from a guy who works in the real estate biz. Things have been really fucked since last summer and they aren't getting better at all. How bad? There are entire finished buildings of 100+ units that have only a few buyers upon completion or even none at all.

New houses that have been built without buyers are also not selling well but I don't know how deeply they are being discounted. The profit margins don't tend to be quite as high for houses as for condos so the discounts aren't likely to be quite as high. I'd still expect far more room to negotiate than normal though.

Oh, if you do go ahead and buy a condo make damn sure you want to live there before you commit 'cause selling a "used" condo with so much heavily discounted new stuff around is likely to be just about impossible.

[Taka-Okami]

Condos in general (in Osaka anyway) aren't selling well. Of course places closer to stations or in more desirable areas will be easier to sell than ones a bit further from the station or somewhere a bit out of the city. I've been handed pamphlets that openly advertise discounts as high as 6mil yen, and that's just what they are willing to offer to anyone without even being asked. You can do far better once you sit down and start talking. The figures I quoted in my previous message (up to 10mil off a 35mil yen place) are directly from a guy who works in the real estate biz. Things have been really fucked since last summer and they aren't getting better at all. How bad? There are entire finished buildings of 100+ units that have only a few buyers upon completion or even none at all.

New houses that have been built without buyers are also not selling well but I don't know how deeply they are being discounted. The profit margins don't tend to be quite as high for houses as for condos so the discounts aren't likely to be quite as high. I'd still expect far more room to negotiate than normal though.

Oh, if you do go ahead and buy a condo make damn sure you want to live there before you commit 'cause selling a "used" condo with so much heavily discounted new stuff around is likely to be just about impossible.

Something like this?

http://new.realestate.yahoo.co.jp/mansion/06/dtl/00067168/

Only annoying thing about condos is the monthly fees you have to pay. Isnt a house cheaper to run?

[Kageryuma]

Nara is a good place to live if you are looking for quietness, greenery and traditions. It's certainly cheaper than Osaka, and not just for accommodation.

If you want to get into the tourist industry, Nara is surely a good place. It's one of the top destinations, but there is far less competition than in Kyoto, Osaka or Tokyo. You can open a gaijin house there. That sure would work.

[FG Lurker]

Something like this?

How much of a discount you can push for will vary from place to place but basically everywhere is cheaper than 2 years ago. You won't know until you start talking to real estate agents.

Only annoying thing about condos is the monthly fees you have to pay. Isnt a house cheaper to run?

The monthly fees go to the upkeep of the building. The problem is that some places set those monthly fees (and the monthly parking charges) super-low to attract buyers. What happens then is 10 years later when work needs to be done there is no money in the bank to cover the cost so those fees have to go way, WAY up.

I wouldn't say a house is cheaper as such though, you still need to maintain it and as it ages there will be expenses. On average it probably works out about the same, but I suppose a house could be cheaper if you do all the work yourself, something that isn't going to be an option for a building full of condos.

Personally I bought a house for a few reasons:

1) I like light coming in through my windows. I'm in Osaka city so it isn't like I have a wide-open space around me but 3 sides of the building have some open space so I get sunlight.

2) I don't really mind having neighbours beside me but I don't like having people above and below me. The people above inevitably walk like elephants and I always feel I need to walk quietly to avoid giving the people below me the same effect. Can't really let kids run around either.

3) Condo owner associations generally set a lot of rules. Some of them are reasonable but inevitably a few are really stupid. The stupid rules often end up being put in place cause of the lowest common denominator of human stupidity -- some people are too stupid to manage daily life and therefore fuck things up for everyone else.

On the plus side with a condo you have less work to do (no outdoor upkeep), and you generally pay less for the same floorspace. You can also get quite a nice view if you are up high enough and have something to look out over.

[Osakadave]

You can open a gaijin house there. That sure would work.

Hmmm.. I don't know about that. My impression is that gaijin houses are on the outs. Maybe a gaijin friendly minshuku or the like would be better if that's where the thinking is.

[Taka-Okami]

Hmmm.. I don't know about that. My impression is that gaijin houses are on the outs. Maybe a gaijin friendly minshuku or the like would be better if that's where the thinking is.

I was thinking a 'used' condo (Post 1990 built), + a nice Minka in the sticks would be a perfect lifestyle for me.