when do u think is a good time to leave japan?

[dangermouse]

ive been here about 3 years now,pretty much straight after i graduated.26 going on 27 now.tried loads of jobs and never really cared what i did, although it has mainly been teaching.i just did all these jobs as a means to staying in this wonderful country.i dont have a clue what i wanna do back in the uk if i go.i have loads of hobbies - photography, music that im half decent at but too damn 90s style slack to follow any through with the business ethics that are needed alongside.teaching is alright - i mean i never did another real full time job 4 more than a year so i cant compare.is it really that bad compared with other careers or is it just dragged down coz of the reps of some schools?its weird.im lost on a career path but overall, delighted to be here in japan.im still young and there is time to try something new, but i just feel like im onto a good thing here.im also real lazy with japanese learning as i have no career needs for it.i speak basic, not too bad.am i looking at becoming a permanant fg?i mean, im no nitwit either.i have a brain, a good science degree, a lot of interests.if i stick it out here, is there only one sad destiny 4 me?this country is so addictive!!!damn.i am scared of washing up a 40 year old with no experience but to teach english and no chance to try something new.but is that so bad?or am i being naive?can i do this for another few years and retyrn to the uk around 30 years old and start off on something new.i mean, i never pinned myself as an english teacher, but this place is way better than england and i just dont wanna leave!

[Naniwan Kid]

For one, you will never be a good secretary. Learn how to type.

If you have no desire to leave, and can support yourself, then go for it. Eventually you will find a nice girl...that may help your decision, especially if she wants to move out of Japan.

One of my best friends has lived in Kansai for 14 years. He came here planning on living 2 to 3 years. He is single, a disappointment to his parents, but living the life he wants to live. He returns to America for about a month a year on vacation, and goes back to Kansai teaching at a private English school.

Unlike many Japanese men, you are NOT your work, or defined by your work, unless you want to be.

Leave with no regrets, that is my policy.

[Taro Toporific]

when do u think is a good time to leave japan?..

NOW.
If you're asking the question, then it's time to go.

..and i just dont wanna leave!

Ok. Stay. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

[dangermouse]

my typing really isnt that bad, or my spelling, its just that i am slack as hell and never go for eloquence while typing, more just stream conscience of the thoughts rolling straight out my head.paragraphs seem unnecessary.thanks for your advice naniwan.the best advice is the sort that confirms any beliefs the listener already has.u did that.i dont wanna leave here and im supporting myself.i certainly am not my job too.i only work 3 to 4 days a week but i can survive.its true.dont leave without any regrets.like your friend, i should embrace the idea that i may stay happy here like him for a long time.its easy to get drawn into what other people think - parents, social perception etc. - rather than following your own heart.however, the problem is, in moments of uncertainty, i often believe they are right.old age brings wisdom.ah well.im not going anywhere just yet.by the way, nice avatar.

[Taro Toporific]

...rather than following your own heart.however, the problem is, in moments of uncertainty, i often believe they are right.old age brings wisdom.ah well...

Hey, kid. Hate to break it to ya but ...[b]old age brings old age]


--- Taro, 11 months and counting to retirement

[dangermouse]

when do u think is a good time to leave japan?..

NOW.
If you're asking the question, then it's time to go.

..and i just dont wanna leave!

Ok. Stay. Don't say I didn't warn ya.

the reason i ask the question is that i am aware of how easy this life is in many ways and how quickly time goes by here.also, i know that it is quite different to back home.i dont know but im guessing that the longer i stay here, the harder it will be to get somewhere back home.secretly though, i refuse to believe this coz i dont wanna leave yet, yet i do wanna return home someday and be succesful in some way too, or able to support myself comfortably.will the transition at say, 30 years old, be that hardcore do u think?i really dunno - i hope it depends on the individual.i am following my heart right now, but not seeming to be going no place.i cant believe i am destined to be a fucked english teacher gaijin.is it easy for guys in their 30s to get into something new, if they are capable, intelligent etc..?

[Taro Toporific]

...i cant believe i am destined to be a fucked english teacher gaijin.is it easy for guys in their 30s to get into something new, if they are capable, intelligent etc..?

Figure on re-creating yourself at least a half dozen times in career/life/slack...Wait for CLUETRAIN to hit ya the Shinkansen, then"and now for something different."

[dangermouse]

...i cant believe i am destined to be a fucked english teacher gaijin.is it easy for guys in their 30s to get into something new, if they are capable, intelligent etc..?

Figure on re-creating yourself at least a half dozen times in career/life/slack...Wait for CLUETRAIN to hit ya the Shinkansen, then"and now for something different."

do you know that chick?i mean, i dont wanna offend anyone.........

[Steve Bildermann]

Ok, Lets' get all you guys lined up,

Taro over here, Ultra you're next to GG. Gomichild over there, Kamome and Booger behind Guy and Rob. Now all the rest of you just squeeze in somewhere.

Ok Everybody ready,. START THE MUSIC



Talking Heads
Once in a Lifetime (1984)
Once In A Lifetime

And you may find yourself living in a shotgun shack
And you may find yourself in another part of the world
And you may find yourself behind the wheel of a large automobile
And you may find yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful
wife
And you may ask yourself-Well...How did I get here?

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

And you may ask yourself
How do I work this?
And you may ask yourself
Where is that large automobile?
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful house!
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful wife!

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...

Water dissolving...and water removing
There is water at the bottom of the ocean
Carry the water at the bottom of the ocean
Remove the water at the bottom of the ocean!

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground.

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

And you may ask yourself
What is that beautiful house?
And you may ask yourself
Where does that highway go?
And you may ask yourself
Am I right?...Am I wrong?
And you may tell yourself
MY GOD!...WHAT HAVE I DONE?

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/in the silent water
Under the rocks and stones/there is water underground.

Letting the days go by/let the water hold me down
Letting the days go by/water flowing underground
Into the blue again/after the money's gone
Once in a lifetime/water flowing underground.

Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...
Same as it ever was...Same as it ever was...

[Taro Toporific]

...Wait for CLUETRAIN to hit ya the Shinkansen, then"and now for something different."

do you know that chick?i mean, i dont wanna offend anyone.........

Chick?
Mr. CLUETRAIN aka rageboy is chris locke. He was a FG working in Toshiba for a while as part of a "self-inflicted exile"...did the same "job" as me. In Boulder Colorado, he lives a couple blocks away from my extended family.

((By the way, I do know another online "dangermouse" but she lives in Atlanta....we go waaay back to neo-Pleistocene. ))

[GomiGirl]

You didn't clearly identify why you are having such a good time here. So you are no slave to your career which is cool.. what is it specifically that is keeping you here? If you understand that then you will know when it is time to go.

It is possible to re-invent yourself and your career dozens of times in a lifetime but societal pressures makes us think that we have to conform to some sort of regular pay check. One day you will find your passion and then everything will make sense about what you should be doing.

[AssKissinger]

Dude, you're 26. Take it easy. Do whatever the hell you want. Look, even if you wait until your 40 to start building a career you got 25 years until you're 65! My advice is don't go home. Save some cash and explore Asia. When I was just a year older than you are now I was backpacking around India (and neighboring countries) it was the time of my life. When you go back home all your cash will get sucked into that crappy first world vacuum. Now, travel is still on the decline, post 9/11, Asia and especially Africa are dirt cheap. Something I learned about third world travelling is it's about having the time more than the money. It sounds like you got both, go for it!

[kamome]

Everyone knows that I'm with Taro on this. If you are thinking of leaving Japan, you should do so sooner rather than later. I think it's very hard to reinvent yourself as you get older (that is, if you have any sort of career in mind). Be warned: once you get pigeonholed as a "Japan guy", you'll have a hell of a time distancing yourself from that.

You should start from this: what do you want to do with your life? You have a science background. Do you want to be a researcher? A science professor? An inventor? Some careers are viable in Japan, some aren't. But if you don't want to be a 40-year old FG English teacher, then you need to get out of this country and get some work experience back home.

[dangermouse]

read on..

[dangermouse]

gomigirl - the reason i am having such a good time here is that i prefer a lot of things about japanese culture and life compared with living in my country, england.
i love the food and the fact that bars stay open all night.i like the fashion on the street.tokyo is a very exciting visual city.it goes without saying that it is a sexy city too.the women are beautiful of course.i like the sensibility of the japanese.they are quiet and respectful and orderly on the outside with a lot of undisplayed secrets underneath.the music scene here is cool.
i still feel spiritually warm that i am a westerner living in the east.the temples, language and air of this place still sometimes make me feel like a traveller which is exciting.
home is home.i just find it bland coz it is what i know.family and friends are there of course and thats what i love, but being in japan just makes me feel good.of course, im not having a good time always.teaching is a pain in the ass at times.sometimes unchallenging,sometimes dull students, sometimes monotonous.what would take me home is a passion to do a career that i wanted but i have no idea.the danger of this place is that my job is easy and well paid.too difficult things to leave!
i dont have many complaints with this really.my problem is that i have no direction.just an interest in the unknown and having fun.sometimes, it becomes disconcerting to see all these people around me growing up a lot lot quicker and leaving me behind.thats how i felt last time i went home anyways.

[dangermouse]

Dude, you're 26. Take it easy. Do whatever the hell you want. Look, even if you wait until your 40 to start building a career you got 25 years until you're 65! My advice is don't go home. Save some cash and explore Asia. When I was just a year older than you are now I was backpacking around India (and neighboring countries) it was the time of my life. When you go back home all your cash will get sucked into that crappy first world vacuum. Now, travel is still on the decline, post 9/11, Asia and especially Africa are dirt cheap. Something I learned about third world travelling is it's about having the time more than the money. It sounds like you got both, go for it!

nice advice man.actually, i am pretty well travelled already.maybe thats the problem.done things too soon.i have backpacked for months at a time round india, nepal, israel, egypt, rwanda, europe, to name a few places and lived in multiple countries too.at the moment, i just dont feel like travelling anymore.but i will do again in the future.i love india.

[dangermouse]

Everyone knows that I'm with Taro on this. If you are thinking of leaving Japan, you should do so sooner rather than later. I think it's very hard to reinvent yourself as you get older (that is, if you have any sort of career in mind). Be warned: once you get pigeonholed as a "Japan guy", you'll have a hell of a time distancing yourself from that.

You should start from this: what do you want to do with your life? You have a science background. Do you want to be a researcher? A science professor? An inventor? Some careers are viable in Japan, some aren't. But if you don't want to be a 40-year old FG English teacher, then you need to get out of this country and get some work experience back home.

well, althoough i dont wanna believe this, i think it to be true too...perhaps.that is my worry.i dont want a career of any sort yet.an idea has failed to come to me.i am concerned about how long i can drift through life having fun before i start having regrets that i didnt act on something earlier.i did a science degree and got a good grade but i did the course for the wrong reasons - just to get to the city i was studying at.i went to university to go to clubs and meet people, not to study.i skipped a lot of classes to have fun or read instead.
but i dont wanna leave japan!
i think a lot of my speculation has to do with the realisation that my girlfriend and i have both outgrown our 2 year relationship somewhat and it is plainer to see now that she is not the girl im gonna marry.maybe this is what its about.you see, it could be easy to just leave now.ah fuck it, i guess i may meet someone else as nice as she was one day.

[AssKissinger]

nice advice man.actually, i am pretty well travelled already.maybe thats the problem.done things too soon.i have backpacked for months at a time round india, nepal, israel, egypt, rwanda, europe, to name a few places and lived in multiple countries too.at the moment, i just dont feel like travelling anymore.but i will do again in the future.i love india.

Whew, Mouse, you're a cool cat! Rwanda?? Damn! Not to the change the subject, but that must have been wild as hell. If you got any stories...

[Neo-Rio]

I think just about every gaijin who has been here for a long time has gone through this stage.

May I suggest you do what all the other f*cked gaijin do at this point in their lives... GO HOME, stay there for 6 months and bum around. Then when you realise how things were actually so much better in Japan, and when you see old friends you knew still stuck in your old town, in a job they don't like... and how often your eyes tend to focus more on asian looking women moreso than the ladies back home.... then you will come back here, quit English teaching, and start focussing more on that hobby of yours and do something productive with it.

But heck... it's your life and you are free to do what you want...
Why do you want a bunch of people you don't even know over the internet to tell you what to do?

[dangermouse]

I think just about every gaijin who has been here for a long time has gone through this stage.

May I suggest you do what all the other f*cked gaijin do at this point in their lives... GO HOME, stay there for 6 months and bum around. Then when you realise how things were actually so much better in Japan, and when you see old friends you knew still stuck in your old town, in a job they don't like... and how often your eyes tend to focus more on asian looking women moreso than the ladies back home.... then you will come back here, quit English teaching, and start focussing more on that hobby of yours and do something productive with it.

But heck... it's your life and you are free to do what you want...
Why do you want a bunch of people you don't even know over the internet to tell you what to do?

i just went home for 2 months and suffered all above said symptoms.how did you know!?!i couldnt make a living with any of my hobbies, besides, i have tried photography, magazine jobs and they didnt fuel my love for writing and camera work.instead, my work was paid jobs and not creative.that was a bummer when i realised that my dream of being a professional reporter, journo, photographer was not what i really wanted to do.i love writing and photography but in my own time.it seems that i cannot quit english teaching.rather, if i wanna stay in japan, it seems that is should start to get into it more.
i dont mind talking to a bunch of strangers on the net.i know very few people on this planet very well.this is like meeting someone anywhere else.except its better.most of you are foreigners in japan like me.i respect your opinions.u know what im going through.

[dangermouse]

nice advice man.actually, i am pretty well travelled already.maybe thats the problem.done things too soon.i have backpacked for months at a time round india, nepal, israel, egypt, rwanda, europe, to name a few places and lived in multiple countries too.at the moment, i just dont feel like travelling anymore.but i will do again in the future.i love india.

Whew, Mouse, you're a cool cat! Rwanda?? Damn! Not to the change the subject, but that must have been wild as hell. If you got any stories...

crazy place.my dad was stationed out there a while and i paid a visit for a month.so this wasnt backpacking.at the time, there were no tourists allowed.it was an eyeopener.not long after the genocide.jails were so full of war criminals that they were allowed to walk around freely in the surrounding towns.they wore all pink prison uniforms so they were instantly recognisable.at the time, prisoners rubbed shoulders with townfolk whose family members had been slain by said prisoners.very very strange atmosphere.i guess they had to learn to forgive.after the genocide, it would be impossible to execute all the hutus that took part in it.i think they are sorting it out slowly now although Congo has been kicking off recently instead.tribal wars.mmm.

[AssKissinger]

Ok since you've already travelled I got a different idea. You say you're making ends meet only working 4 days a week now? Stay here and use your free time to write a book. You say you're into writing and photography? Well, those are fields that both encourage freelance so why go home? Seriously, I'm waiting for some great gaijin writers to break. Of course, Hemmingway lived in Paris. Both Orwell and Miller picked up work as English teachers in Paris. The gaijin lifestyle is cool. Booze and chicks and foreign travel, I know people have written about it but maybe you're the man who can capture it the way Miller captured something in 'Tropic of Cancer'. It may seem like a crazy dream, but things like that come real for people...it sounds like you have a lot of cool experience and a chance to make it happen for you. Good luck whatever you decide.

[dangermouse]

Ok since you've already travelled I got a different idea. You say you're making ends meet only working 4 days a week now? Stay here and use your free time to write a book. You say you're into writing and photography? Well, those are fields that both encourage freelance so why go home? Seriously, I'm waiting for some great gaijin writers to break. Of course, Hemmingway lived in Paris. Both Orwell and Miller picked up work as English teachers in Paris. The gaijin lifestyle is cool. Booze and chicks and foreign travel, I know people have written about it but maybe you're the man who can capture it the way Miller captured something in 'Tropic of Cancer'. It may seem like a crazy dream, but things like that come real for people...it sounds like you have a lot of cool experience and a chance to make it happen for you. Good luck whatever you decide.

thankyou asskissinger.your post oozed truth and it is something i know and something i should definitely be trying.u know whats up.i need to pull my finger out that is for sure.procrastination is a dead scene.u enjoy yourself too, and hey...how come u aint writing?im hoping that one day, i will sit at the typewriter and not leave till the damage is done.peace.

[japslapper]

One of the biggest problems about going home is reverse culture shock. I found when I went home - nobody in family or my old buddies could relate to Japan. You go back, idiom,subculture and people have moved on as have you.

The life and culture here grabs you and I think it can be hard to get to "normal" life in the UK/USetc. Life here - trains for example - you dont need to think - back in Britain ?

Despite the shit we put up with here - in reality we have it much better than at home. Back home we are a "nobody", day to day life is done sleepwalking - here every day you can learn something new just walking down the street. Food is good and the chicks are way better than back home. "Charisma Gaijin" syndrome....

...there are so many oppertunities here in Japan - Eikaiwa teaching is a #$%&!(but safe).



- Because Japans society/education is so rigid - few people have new ideas and even fewer go ahead and do it (if they do its copied - look at middleaged housewifes and how many are running "Pan Shops/Schools" !

- FGs (not NOVA teachers! ) with originality have SO much oppertunity.
Me? I am a UK Zoology graduate(MS) and looking into opening a nature study centre - where I live, in Japan, there is so much oppertunity for it - and no one has thought of it before!

Theres a Brit about 30ks up the coast from me - with the help of J-chick opened his Eikaiwa school for security and on the side has started a minor fashion label. - Playing gaijin can help - make it work it for you.

Going back home we may be "gaijin" (well a bit japanese actually) but it dont sell!

[AssKissinger]

and hey...how come u aint writing?

Well, I play in a folk band. We've played a few shows in the Hiroshima area. Sometimes, I dream that something could come out of it. Also, I have a few stories I'm working on. About ten years ago, I published some stuff myself...I know anybody can do that but I did get two good reviews in magazines with international distribution. But the truth is, I have a job that gives me a pretty lot of free time, I like where I live way out in the countryside and I love my wife. I hate to say I've given up on grander dreams but I'm happy with the way things are. I know this might sound defeatist but I figure with all the great art out there, music and lit, what's the point of adding my own mediocrity. I love listening to music and reading books so much that I loathe to let other endeavors distract me too much. For the same reason, I guess, once I attained basic survival Japanese ability I pretty much quit studying.

[Big Booger]

Go somewhere else. Try Hong Kong, Bangkok, Manila, Seoul, etc...

Give that a whirl and see if you can find something to do that suits you. Obviously something here is making you ask that question, so it might be time to hit the road.

[jim katta]

I've been at your point a couple of times in my life, so I can really relate to the conflicting feelings you must be having right now. I think, if you can (honestly) see something for yourself beyond teaching (something you say you aren't really into), then stay. If you can envision doing something meaningful, rather than just existing and feeling good, stay. On the other hand, if this is all mostly based on the fact that Japan makes you feel good, and nothing else, I would definitely say move on and try some other place. The biggest personal/career growth I've ever experienced was when I was in uncomfortable circumstances that inspired me to go the extra mile to improve myself and my surroundings. If you have no long term vision of your professional self in Japan, and you are comfortable, I 'could' see you becoming the shiftless old gaijin stuck in Japan. The key, I think, is to be honest with yourself and assess if you really think you can motivate yourself to try new things and push your personal boundaries while still living in Japan.

Also, I think studying the language/writing contributes greatly to getting a more well rounded Japanese experience. Survival japanese is okay, but after three years, if the language isn't interesting to you, then maybe that's a clue that you're not 'deeply' interested in the full breadth of what japan has to offer. Or, maybe you just haven't bothered yet and you'll be fluent in due time. Either way, just be honest with yourself. And lastly, I would suggest that you don't make any of your major decisions based on a woman who isn't already your wife.

[dangermouse]

I've been at your point a couple of times in my life, so I can really relate to the conflicting feelings you must be having right now. I think, if you can (honestly) see something for yourself beyond teaching (something you say you aren't really into), then stay. If you can envision doing something meaningful, rather than just existing and feeling good, stay. On the other hand, if this is all mostly based on the fact that Japan makes you feel good, and nothing else, I would definitely say move on and try some other place. The biggest personal/career growth I've ever experienced was when I was in uncomfortable circumstances that inspired me to go the extra mile to improve myself and my surroundings. If you have no long term vision of your professional self in Japan, and you are comfortable, I 'could' see you becoming the shiftless old gaijin stuck in Japan. The key, I think, is to be honest with yourself and assess if you really think you can motivate yourself to try new things and push your personal boundaries while still living in Japan.

Also, I think studying the language/writing contributes greatly to getting a more well rounded Japanese experience. Survival japanese is okay, but after three years, if the language isn't interesting to you, then maybe that's a clue that you're not 'deeply' interested in the full breadth of what japan has to offer. Or, maybe you just haven't bothered yet and you'll be fluent in due time. Either way, just be honest with yourself. And lastly, I would suggest that you don't make any of your major decisions based on a woman who isn't already your wife.

That is good advice too.thankyou for taking the time out to write it.im gonna work harder and save some cash in the next 3 months and try and get more into the language plus just enjoy the summer.come november, im gonna figure out if im getting anywhere and base my decision on that.thanks again

[kamome]

AssKissinger kind of reinforced what I said earlier: some careers are viable in Japan, some aren't. Living the FG lifestyle longterm can be good for creative types who want to turn hobbies into careers (like musicians, artists, fashion designers, etc.). But a more conventional career path requires home expertise (ideally), and Japan should figure into it if it makes sense for your long term career goals.

dangermouse, have you considered career counseling? There are some good ones out there. It sounds like you just need to find yourself, take a personality test, and have someone point out the career opportunities that are out there.

[Captain Japan]

Talking Heads
Once in a Lifetime (1984)
Once In A Lifetime

MY GOD!...WHAT HAVE I DONE?

But I think in staying in Japan you might find yourself asking this very question just like the guy with the house and beautiful wife, right? Sure Japan is likely once in a lifetime but, to me, it has to somehow be better than falling into some kind of domestic trap back home to be worth it.

That's such a great song. Brought back memories. Thanks.