"secret" marriage - a little heavy :/

[dorami]

I'm not sure if posts must be approved? But I made adjustments to my last post (which hasn't appeared yet) and I would prefer for this one to be posted instead, if possible. I apologize for any inconveniences caused in advance.

Alright, I don't even know if this is a place to be asking this, and either way, I will be consulting a lawyer to confirm this, but I just want to know if anyone may perhaps know on-hand of a similar situation and/or if this is possible. I'm not looking to be judged, or told I am immoral/moral (although I cannot stop anyone from doing so), or I should just give up etc, I am asking as to whether or not this is possible and nothing else.

Recently, I have been studying in Japan and I had plans to return home after my visa cut off, save up, and return once again. When I returned, I planned on living with my other half, whom I love very deeply and vice versa. So my visa expired, I switched to temporary visa and extended my stay to be with him a little more, but just a few days before my visa expired, he was told he does not have very much time left to live, and I had already quit my school, and had no way of receiving a tuition of 6 months in time to renew my visa. We have been together for a long time, and we care for each other deeply, and he's always had a very bad heart; constantly weak/sick. I supported him as much as possible within my power, and stayed by his side as much as I could, as I would have chosen to do no other had I another choice.
We had talked about marriage before, but not as something we would do in the near future; perhaps something to do when I returned to Japan again. However, upon learning this, of course I could not stand to have him disappear forever whilst I resided back in America, trying to save up for my return (I would have needed to save enough for the ticket as well as a way to support myself without a job..Not a problem, but I've been slapped with a terrible predicament). So, we researched ways possible for me to stay; he even considered coming to the US but he is obviously in no state to do so. So we decided to go ahead and get married, move in together, and live our lives the way we wanted... everything would have been fine except for that his family would not approve of it; the situation is quite complicated and involves his past. I won't go into it, as there is no point, but he as well as I do not wish for anyone to be griefed or harmed. He's tried desperately to find ways for me to stay here; he even got his contract cut off with the music company he was with, due to being a little too persistent about getting me a position at his company. I just want to be with him, as we have not much time left, and of course I still have dreams to follow and people to help here as well. We thought all hope was lost, however, I recently stumbled upon some information that may make it possible for us to be together.
In America, in some jurisdictions, it is possible to get a "secret marriage". I also learned from other people, as well as stories that people get secret marriages for problematic family reasons as well, which was perfect for my case, however this is not the U.S. I couldn't find any information on secret marriages or the sort in Japan, but I need to know if there is anything like this in Japan? Or is there a way to hide our marriage from his family and keep our marriage records guarded and withheld from any parties other than ourselves? I'm not seeking to do anything illegal, or cause any harm. I just have my dreams, aspirations, and a man I love with all my heart here. If it's possible to keep our marriage in complete secret from absolutely everyone in Japan as well, please let me know! There must be a way.. if the government can keep secrets as they do, there must be a way for civilians to do the same right? I hope... Thank you SO much for reading this, and thank you in advance for taking the time to answer.. Thank you!!

[Greji]

I'm not sure if posts must be approved?

All responses for these type of posts are normally in AK's baliwick.

However, if you are both of legal age, he (assuming he's a J-guy) just starts his own family register (koseki) and you enter your marriage on that and don't tell the parents, or do tell them and don't worry about it. Most people on this board who are married to local rice burners did not get a brass band welcome when they got married. You (assuming you are a FG-female) must comply with any requirements your embassy has for marriages abroad. If he refuses to go against his parent's wishes, meaning they are more important than you, you have picked the wrong guy to spend the rest of your (or his) life with.

If the two of you are not in either of the above two categories, I got no idea what you should do.

[gomichild]

When you get married in Japan your name is added to his family register. By requesting a copy of this (which is often needed for various reasons) any member of the family will see your name on this. I highly doubt there is a way authorities would have a mechanism for keeping this secret.

Also you will need to be on his family register to apply for a spouse visa (which would allow you to stay and do any type of work).

Obviously you are both adults. You can get married without needing the permission of his family. They can't force you to get divorced. He needs to stand up and declare his intentions to his family straight. If he is as ill as you say then it's doubtful they will cut him off from the family anyway.

If you really want to be together then you'll both have to be prepared for some hassles from his family - but will that be worse than the problems you have now? Probably not.

Secondly take a deep breath and calm down. Your choice is not complicated - either you remain in the same situation as you are now, or you get married and have some trouble with his family.

[IkemenTommy]

I just want to be with him, as we have not much time left, and of course I still have dreams to follow and people to help here as well.

It sounds like you are dying soon.. are you? You don't need to ask anyone for a permission to get married. If the timing is right for the marriage, just do. I know this sounds like a fucked advice to you, but good luck.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

[Greji]

When you get married in Japan your name is added to his family register. By requesting a copy of this (which is often needed for various reasons) any member of the family will see your name on this. I highly doubt there is a way authorities would have a mechanism for keeping this secret.

Also you will need to be on his family register to apply for a spouse visa (which would allow you to stay and do any type of work).

That is why I said he should start his own family register! Capice? Then the only thing they would see is his name off the main family register. Anything subsequent i.e. marriage will be on his own registry.

[gomichild]

Yes good post gboothe - but i was writing mine while you posted and didn't see it until afterwards.

[dorami]

Thank you everyone for your advice, It's must appreciated. This would all be very easy to do, if there weren't so many complications in his family. His father is also going to die soon of cancer, so the last thing him or I want to do is cause them any more stress by fighting with our marriage/them finding out by chance that we went ahead with it anyways. His parents don't have anything against me, it's more so of events that happened in the past that ended in disaster with many people hurt, and much money lost. He once attempted to get married before in his past, (to a Japanese national), and his family needed him to stay unmarried. He fought against them anyways, and got a lot of people involved in the situation, and he hurt his parents/famliy very badly in the end. The woman also ended up being a liar, and thief, with serious mental unstabilities. I won't say that she is the cause of his brother's divorce, but she played part in it with manipulating minds. A huge scar has been left behind, not just because of the woman, but the things he put his family through as well. His father was hospitalized due to stress during that time. In the end, there was never any marriage, as he couldn't bare to cause his family any more grief. I've met the woman for myself, and I'll just say it was rather hard for me to keep my fists down, but I refuse to stoop to her level. It's a twisted and really just plain ridiculous situation, but we're not looking to re-open any wounds here.
Yes, I know it sounds like a huge excuse, and that if we just want to do it, we should forget everything and just do it but, I'm sure as well to any other ethnicity, family is -very- important to Asians. My mother is also asian, Filipino/Chinese to be exact and Filipino and Chinese have very very strong values in reguards to family. Had this been my mother instead, and me with the same situation, I also would not want to cause any harm or grief to her. It's not so much that he reguards them higher than me, he sees us as equal, as I do him with my mother and sister. Although I would certainly push the limits to help him out, I would not consider causing my mother any stress and pain in the process as well. It's just our beliefs.

However, I thank you all very kindly for your advice and help with this.
On another forum, someone suggested that he had heard of someone getting married in a different prefecture, without reporting it it to their home ward office, and the koseki status in original home prefecture remained unchanged. I'm not saying this is true, or if it has been done before, but if anyone has heard about this, how would that even work? I will post the original here:

"if you marry in a different prefecture, and register your New Household (Shin Seitai) there, and do not report it to his home ward office, given the rather underdeveloped state of govt computerisation, you end up with what you want (marriage), and no change to his original koseki status in Tokyo. Even if the oversight is discovered, it will likely take some time, and be treated as an oversight, without any significant legal ramifications.

Any legally performed marriage is nationally recognised, and so there will be no problem there regardless of where you live. All immigration procedures are confidential, and are not subject to the threat of his family viewing them.

So, there it is. Grab your guy, go to Nikko for a long weekend (ward offices are only open on weekdays), and get yourself a Las Vegas Wedding Tochigi ken style."

Why would we even consider any of this, is that if we can keep anyone from finding out by chance, at least until after/if all things calm down, with his father in the death bed and things going hectic, it would save a lot of trouble. When the time is right, be it that chance ever possibly arrived (he's been told he has less than a year to live, but miracles do happen.) we would explain our situation and why we did what we did. Mind you, if I weren't faced with the dilemma of having my loved one possibly dying within a year, I would have no problem returning home, saving up to buy a ticket and also support myself on a temporary visa, and just coming back that way. However, if I'm back in the US, working my ass off, and end up hearing that he died 2 months ago or something.. well, yea. I also have to continue payments on my apartment, (Y66000 per month) as my contract has not ended yet, despite returning to america or not. If I could just stay and continue to work here, then it wouldn't be a problem, but if I'm back in the US paying for the rent, as well as saving up for my return, it's going to take quite a while before I return.
Sorry for the excessively long post guys.
But, thank you kindly for your advice and explanations. I really appreciate it. It helps clear some things up, thank you.

[dorami]

- Also thanks kindly for clearing up that there are no secret/confidential marriages in Japan.
I'm contacting an immigration lawyer on Tuesday, we've set up a meeting, to see my options. I must mention, I don't have a BA of any sort, which kind of screws me over with the whole working visa thing. But any other suggestions are kindly appreciated.

[dorami]

^ i also forgot to mention the girl ran off with another man in the end.

Anyways, thanks everyone! I spoke with a lawyer, and it seems marriage laws are much much more strict than before. This wasn't simply for visa purposes, as he may pass away soon, he wanted to marry me before that happened, we wanted to experience a ceremony, (we planned on telling his family once things calmed down, had the chance ever arrived) .. I wanted to give him that as well, but it's not such an easy thing it seems, without causing any pain..

As for staying, I never thought my artistic skills would prove me worthy, but there is a design company, and also a modeling company willing to sponsor me, however, obtaining a spouse visa was not the main issue, it was a matter of being able to marry the man i love.

Thank you everyone for your help, I really appreciate it.

[Greji]

visa was not the main issue, it was a matter of being able to marry the man i love.

Then marry him. No further advice needed!

[kamome]

a modeling company willing to sponsor me

I suppose this would be a bad time to ask you to post a pic?

[ChrisRose]

Fumy, my situation was the the reverse.

My Japanese wife and I married in secret in the UK. My family knew but her Japanese family didn't. She went back to Japan first to wait for me.

I turned up early as a surprise, her family were not amused. They even told us not to register the marriage for a year meaning that I couldn't work in Japan, so we came to Hong Kong together.

[AML]

Fumy, my situation was the the reverse.

My Japanese wife and I married in secret in the UK. My family knew but her Japanese family didn't. She went back to Japan first to wait for me.

I turned up early as a surprise, her family were not amused. They even told us not to register the marriage for a year meaning that I couldn't work in Japan, so we came to Hong Kong together.

Its funny how a Jp national getting married overseas doesn't "count" as a marriage in Japan....

Once its done its done. What would waiting a year accomplish? Maybe they want time to figure out a way for their daughter to get out of it?

If I were you I wouldn't bother going back to Jp...

[Greji]

Its funny how a Jp national getting married overseas doesn't "count" as a marriage in Japan....

Once its done its done. What would waiting a year accomplish? Maybe they want time to figure out a way for their daughter to get out of it?

If I were you I wouldn't bother going back to Jp...

Anti-marriage in-laws are not uncommon in Japan, or elsewhere (don't bring a war bride home, etc.)

This usually disappears for the most part with the first kid......

[IparryU]

Its funny how a Jp national getting married overseas doesn't "count" as a marriage in Japan....

Once its done its done. What would waiting a year accomplish? Maybe they want time to figure out a way for their daughter to get out of it?

If I were you I wouldn't bother going back to Jp...

really though... fuck her parents, if they are not happy for her (which is why it was a secret in the first place) then don't associate with them.

save your self some heart ache and don't let the wife get too sympathetic for them either. many dads loose their kids because the wife "returns home" with the kids and does not allow the FG dad to see them.

better to stay in the UK and live happily my man.

[unkosando]

I don't know... This all sounds a little confusing? Why would his parents want him to stay "unmarried?"

My gut tells me this guy is wealthy and the parents are looking at you as a gold-digger. Am I wrong?

[AML]

Well the ex jp whore certainly was looking for money. And after that experience his parents aren't going to be very open to him marrying.

Especially since he doesn't have long for this world.

They are probably thinking about the problems they will have dealing with a gaijin after hes gone...

If you really arent in it for the money then do a prenuptial agreement.

Dont know if it counts in japan...

[Dragonette]

I don't know if you guys noticed, but this tale posted a few years ago, and by now must have been resolved one way or the other.
Too bad, I would have like to have seen how it ended.

If all the facts were as presented, I'd be squarely in the fuck-the-parents camp as well, but maybe there was more to the story...
... I guess we'll never know now, ne –

[IparryU]

[quote="Dragonette"]I don't know if you guys noticed, but this tale posted a few years ago, and by now must have been resolved one way or the other.
Too bad, I would have like to have seen how it ended.

If all the facts were as presented, I'd be squarely in the fuck-the-parents camp as well, but maybe there was more to the story...
... I guess we'll never know now, ne –]
post #12

[Dragonette]

[prolly]

" he was told he does not have very much time left to live"

wtf? troll?

[Greji]

[Dragonette]

All women are in it for the money!
(ducks under table while Dragonette recharges Phasers...)

Ha! After 2 binbo shujin maybe I shoulda been, but it's too late now, I'm stuck with this one.
(Can't dump him.. you know... that pesky fundoshi fever...)

[Greji]

(Can't dump him.. you know... that pesky fundoshi fever...)

PFF! Great shot Drag! I tried to green snot you, but me bloody machine cut me off short. So if you didn't get a snot shot on that, know that I was thinking thinking fondly of Ya!

[IparryU]

Ha! After 2 binbo shujin maybe I shoulda been, but it's too late now, I'm stuck with this one.
(Can't dump him.. you know... that pesky fundoshi fever...)

quite sure greji will get in a fundoshi for ya...

just bring him a goat every now and then and he will work good for ya

[GomiGirl]

quite sure greji will get in a fundoshi for ya...

To see Greji in a fundoshi is worth a goat or two. I would pay good money to see that.

[Greji]

To see Greji in a fundoshi is worth a goat or two. I would pay good money to see that.

Shall we make the Hokkaido ski run this year in matching thongs?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Shall we make the Hokkaido ski run this year in matching thongs?

Matching thongs?