[hanabi]

Make it cold chuhai and you've got yourself a discussion.

[GomiGirl]

Hey wait - are you going to invite me or am I still on your shit list for the golden gai thing...

[kamome]

Hey wait - are you going to invite me or am I still on your shit list for the golden gai thing...

Once you're on the shit list, there's no way off of it.

Just kidding....but we'd have to ask Guy about it first.

[GuyJean]

you can just hang out with Guyjean and me and discuss gender bias and other social ills over beers in Shibuya....

So that's the gibberish you're always spoutin'.. I thought you were just trying to confuse me.

Once you're on the shit list, there's no way off of it.
Just kidding....but we'd have to ask Guy about it first.

One thing I've learned about Japan; Don't ask, just do.

If you ask, a commitee will have to be formed, all minute options explained, then no decision made.

Right about now, a frosty cold one sounds mighty good. Unfortunately, this week, I'm slammed..

GJ

[Taro Toporific]

Hey wait - are you going to invite me or am I still on your shit list for the golden gai thing...

Hey, do you guys need adult supervision?

[American Oyaji]

Hey wait - are you going to invite me or am I still on your shit list for the golden gai thing...

What happened in the Golden Gai?

[Captain Japan]

Hey wait - are you going to invite me or am I still on your shit list for the golden gai thing...

Hey, do you guys need adult supervision?

I've been to a few of these and nobody's even thrown a chair yet. Heck, I don't think anyone's even thrown up.

Captain

[Taro Toporific]

Hey wait - are you going to invite me or am I still on your shit list for the golden gai thing...

What happened in the Golden Gai?

That's Shinjuku's "Golden Gai" and the droll comments Kamome and CS.

[ramchop]

ramchop, you're right it is a very small sample size and I'm not convinced that those differences in your children have *absolutely nothing* to do with how people treat them, how they were raised and what they've observed from the people around them rather than *pure nature* alone.

And I'm not trying to convince you of that. But at 10 months I would say that nature has more to do with it than nuture. Otherwise I'd expect my daughter to have picked up on the joys of dinosaurs from her older brother. Or is it only parents who have an influence in the whole nuture debate?

[hanabi]

Or is it only parents who have an influence in the whole nuture debate?

Of course, I don't think so. I thought I made that clear with "what they've observed from the people around them."

I'm editing this to try to sound less bitchy. But it isn't working. There's just no convincing me, short of straight and unbiased scientific facts.

[hanabi]

Right about now, a frosty cold one sounds mighty good. Unfortunately, this week, I'm slammed.. :(

Ditto. Any week but this one.

[ramchop]

Of course, I don't think so. I thought I made that clear with "what they've observed from the people around them."

I'm editing this to try to sound less bitchy. But it isn't working. There's just no convincing me, short of straight and unbiased scientific facts.

I thought you did quite a good job of not sounding bitchy. I'm not sure what I'm meant to trying to convince you of though.

I'm saying that at an early age nature has a more to do with it than nuture, though the balance shifts as they get old enough to actually teach them something. And there are no straight and unbiased scientific facts on this issue. It's one of the murkier sciences.

So what are you basing your assertations on, scientific facts or what you want to believe?


And just how many FGs can you cram into one of those tiny Golden Gai bars?

[cstaylor]

Heck, I don't think anyone's even thrown up.

Not true.

[GomiGirl]

And just how many FGs can you cram into one of those tiny Golden Gai bars?

Half of Golden gai burnt down the other night. But my favorites are still there. I know a guy who lost his bar in the blaze. I will try to find an article about it but I am on a deadline this afternoon.

[GomiGirl]

Heck, I don't think anyone's even thrown up.

Not true.

I was going to say something but thought I would keep your secret safe..

[hanabi]

And there are no straight and unbiased scientific facts on this issue. It's one of the murkier sciences.

So what are you basing your assertations on, scientific facts or what you want to believe?

Both, or rather, a lack of the former. You're right, there are no unbiased facts because it's an impossible experiment to conduct--raising children without any gender-biased influence. Every adult who comes into contact with them would already be affected and, therefore, teaching just by exposure. (Well, I suppose they could be raised by robots, but that'd be weird. However entertaining.)

I do remember reading an article in U.S. News and World Report, Are Boys the Weaker Sex? (last article on the page) that stated "Male newborns are more emotionally demonstrative than females--a fact that has been shown experimentally despite the cultural stereotype to the contrary."

And I thought "Pshaw. What experiments?" Pop science, really. Articles like this use words like "the latest research suggests..." and "there have been experiments showing..." without giving us details on the variables of the experiments. I can't put complete trust in partially revealed information.

It also stated "Women's brains are, on average, 11 percent smaller than men's, says Gur. And while there appears to be a subtle correlation between brain volume and IQ, he adds, there is no difference in the IQs of males and females. 'So we have to ask how women manage to have the same IQ in a proportionally smaller brain.' The answer is that female brains are not simply a smaller version of male brains. From a strictly evolutionary standpoint, the female brain is a bit more finely developed."

Sounds compelling, to be sure. But they just jump over the statement "no difference in the IQs" to stress the physical differences in the brains, not taking into account the human being's ability to adapt despite gender. (Again, I'm not denying that there aren't physical differences.) Case in point, contrary to the claims in this article that men have such a hard time processing information, western thought, art and industry have been dominated by men for centuries. That's not science. That's social influence.

And...uh...um...I'd finish this post, but I forgot what this thread was about.

See how much I need a drink?

[kamome]

And...uh...um...I'd finish this post, but I forgot what this thread was about.

See how much I need a drink?

I'm not even paying attention to the thread.

I need a drink, too. Seems I'm not the only one who's slammed this week.

P.S. There have been other Golden Gai events???? And still no invite??? I'm beginning to smell a conspiracy

[GomiGirl]

P.S. There have been other Golden Gai events???? And still no invite??? I'm beginning to smell a conspiracy

No conspiracy.. a whole block of golden gai burnt down the other night. It is time to head out there and pay respects to the bar owners who have lost EVERYTHING!!

Closest was a dinner with CS last night but that was a work dinner!!

[gomichild]

Half of Golden Gai burnt down - OH NO!

Um so what was the topic - oh yeah gender inequality in Japan.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

The thing is that I have experienced just as much sexual discrimination in the workplace at home in Australia as I have here. So I admit that I haven't really noticed all that much.

One odd thing though is that when I have worked for Japanese companies and gone out drinking with them many of those who treated me as more of a girl (instead of just a "person") changed their tunes after I drank them under a table. An odd way to win respect - thank goodness for my steel liver.

I had a big victory over one of my Japanese bosses. All the girls in the office were told that as we were losing our receptionist we would have to take tea to the guests who came to the office. I admit I was on the edge as it was and had a huge fight with my boss that seeing as we were doing the same work as the men in my office everyone should be included on the tea roster. I won out in the end and we had a rotating schedule with both boys and girls. None of the other women backed me up about this though - luckily I can argue enough for several people.

[Buraku]

tutor imparts carnal knowledge to schoolboy
http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/waiwai/face/news/20050826p2g00m0dm023000c.html
sick or what
?

[Mike Oxlong]

[SIZE="4"]Asahi Shimbun EDITORIAL: Japan's gender gap[/SIZE]

Japan is likely to sink deeper into stagnation unless society can change in a way that makes it easier for women to play a greater role by capitalizing on their abilities. This problem is highlighted every year by Japan's abysmal positions in the international rankings of gender equality.

This year, Japan was ranked 94th of 134 countries in the Global Gender Gap Index (GGGI), compiled by the World Economic Forum, a Geneva-based nonprofit foundation best known for its annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland, that brings together business and political leaders from around the world. The index is based on such criteria as the ratios of men and women among members of parliament and corporate executives, and in wages.

Similarly last year, Japan ranked 57th among 109 countries in the United Nations' Gender Empowerment Measure, which measures women's standing in political and economic areas in a country.

However, Japan did take the 12th position among 138 nations in the rankings of the Gender Inequality Index, a measure of inequality in achievements between men and women introduced this year by the United Nations. The higher the ranking, the lower the inequality.

But Japan's relatively good performance was due to higher weight given to such criteria as maternal mortality.

This may make some Japanese breathe a sigh of relief. But the fact that the achievements of Japanese women in society are rated low despite their high marks for health and longevity underscores serious problems with Japanese society...