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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Gaijin Ghetto

Japanese Catholics Have Problem With The Way

Groovin' in the Gaijin Gulag
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55 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2

Japanese Catholics Have Problem With The Way

Postby Mulboyne » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:44 am

CathNews: Japanese bishops seek Vatican intervention on Neo-Cats
Four Japanese bishops have travelled to Rome for a meeting with Pope Benedict to seek Holy See intervention to resolve what they describe as a "serious problem" with the methods of the Neo-Catechumenal Way movement and its seminary in a Japanese diocese..."We hate to come so often but we had to give the serious nature of the problem that needs to be resolved", Archbishop Okada of Tokyo, president of the bishops' conference, told UCA News in Rome..."In the small Catholic Church of Japan, the powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational. It has caused sharp painful division and strife within the Church".


Not of interest to many on the board but it seems that Japanese Catholics are pinning their hopes on Benedict to pull the carpet from under a sect which has been built in Takamatsu. Here's a story from 2003:
MATSUYAMA, Japan (UCAN) -- A court in Japan has ordered Bishop Fukahori Satoshi of Takamatsu to pay compensation to two Catholics who sued him for defamation in a dispute over a seminary. Presiding Judge Uehara Hiroyuki of the Matsuyama District Court on June 25 ruled that two pastoral letters issued by the bishop in 2000 and 2001 defamed Kuribayashi Takamitsu and Morioka Genzo. He ordered compensation of 400,000 yen to each of the laymen. Kuribayashi, 42, and Morioka, 66, had opposed the establishment of the Redemptoris Mater diocesan seminary run by the Neocatechumenal Way in Takamatsu, about 520 kilometers southwest of Tokyo. They also opposed construction of a building to house the seminary. The two parishioners voiced their opposition to the diocesan Lay Apostolate Council and made efforts to head off a TV station's coverage of the seminary.

Church sources told UCA News many laypeople object to the financial burden they believe construction of the seminary imposes on their small diocese. They also tend to see the project as serving the purposes of the Neocatechumenal movement and not the diocese, which has about 5,500 Catholics out of 4.2 million people living in its territory. The seminary, established in 1990, is operating in temporary quarters. It is one of 46 diocesan missionary seminaries on five continents run by the Neocatechumenal Way, a lay movement founded in Spain in 1964 that was introduced into Japan in 1973. Bishop Fukahori, 78, issued pastoral letters in July 2000 and January 2001 that criticized Kuribayashi and Morioka by name for opposing the seminary and for inhibiting the TV coverage. In March 2001, the two laymen brought charges against the bishop for defamation.

The bishop maintained during the two-year trial that the case belonged not in a civil court but in a Church court, because the question of whether or not a seminary should be opened is an internal affair of the Church. However, the court ruled that the defamation case came under civil law and the court's jurisdiction. The bishop was not present when the decision that the letters were defamatory was handed down.

Father Taniguchi Koki, head of the committee charged with raising funds for the seminary, said afterwards, "I have no comment now because I have not carefully read the decision yet, but I think we should pursue the case until we win." Morioka said at a press conference following the verdict, "I hoped that through this trial we could bring the problems of the seminary to light and get some change for the better." He added: "I am in no way happy over winning. I deeply hope to discuss within the Church and with the bishop how to solve problems related to the seminary."

The plaintiffs' lawyer, Azuma Shun-ishi, commented that "if the head of a local Church, the bishop, does not hear the opinions of the faithful in a democratic manner and does not have an open style of management, the Church will be troubled." Bishop Fukahori reportedly has decided not to appeal the court decision. Redemptoris Mater seminary currently has 28 students, only two of whom are Japanese. The rest -- from Italy, Latin America and Spain -- were sent to Japan by Neocatechumenal Way communities.

The Way, as many followers call it, has the support of Pope John Paul II. It describes itself as "a group of people who wish to rediscover and to live the Christian life fully" through a program of formation "like that of the early Church but adapted to their condition as baptized persons." The movement claims about 17,000 communities in some 900 dioceses worldwide, and says more than 700 priests have been ordained from its seminaries.
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Postby kurohinge1 » Thu May 01, 2008 8:07 am

Mulboyne wrote:
. . . Here's a story from 2003:

. . . A court in Japan has ordered Bishop Fukahori Satoshi of Takamatsu to pay compensation to two Catholics who sued him for defamation in a dispute over a seminary . . .


I wonder if the Japanese Catholic version of the Bible omits the following verses from 1 Corinthians 6 (Lawsuits Among Believers):

If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? But instead, one brother goes to law against another—]more[/URL]


:confused:
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Postby ttjereth » Thu May 01, 2008 10:31 am

kurohinge1 wrote:I wonder if the Japanese Catholic version of the Bible omits the following verses from 1 Corinthians 6 (Lawsuits Among Believers):



:confused:


Leviticus 11


1The LORD spoke again to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them, 2"Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, '(A)These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth.
3'Whatever divides a hoof, thus making split hoofs, and chews the cud, among the animals, that you may eat.
4'Nevertheless, (B)you are not to eat of these, among those which chew the cud, or among those which divide the hoof: the camel, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you.
5'Likewise, the shaphan, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you]6the rabbit also, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; [/B]
7and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you.
8'You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.
9'(C)These you may eat, whatever is in the water: all that have fins and scales, those in the water, in the seas or in the rivers, you may eat.
10'(D)But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you,
11and they shall be [a]abhorrent to you; you may not eat of their flesh, and their carcasses you shall detest.
12'Whatever in the water does not have fins and scales is abhorrent to you.



I'd say there is plenty of selective reading of the bible anywhere there's Christians. I don't know any Japanese Christians who avoid shellfish and or buta shabu and I know tons of Christians back home who love their Sunday morning bacon and sausages. I also don't know too many Christians who think shaving is unclean, or sleeping with a woman during her period is cause for exile.

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Postby Greji » Thu May 01, 2008 10:57 am

ttjereth wrote: sleeping with a woman during her period is cause for exile.


Hey, I didn't see any prohibitory laws in there banning a fella from having a little of the monthly wine...
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Postby james » Thu May 01, 2008 12:17 pm

" wrote:"In the small Catholic Church of Japan, the powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational. It has caused sharp painful division and strife within the Church".


good. fuck the whole lot of 'em.
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Postby climb678 » Thu May 01, 2008 12:32 pm

james wrote:good. fuck the whole lot of 'em.

Amen!
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Postby kurohinge1 » Thu May 01, 2008 12:40 pm

ttjereth wrote:I'd say there is plenty of selective reading of the bible anywhere there's Christians. I don't know any Japanese Christians who avoid shellfish and or buta shabu and I know tons of Christians back home who love their Sunday morning bacon and sausages. I also don't know too many Christians who think shaving is unclean, or sleeping with a woman during her period is cause for exile.


I agree that the Bible has to be understood in context, but the quote from 1 Corinthians 6 was from the New Testament and I believe that the context does not detract from the meaning evident from reading it today.

However, your reference to Old Testament food laws, for example, is very much limited by the context as Jesus (in the New Testament) declared all food "clean" (See: Mark 7:14-23):

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' "

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.")

He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "


Although, I suspect many regular readers of this board may think twice about eating goat again. ;)
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Postby Greji » Thu May 01, 2008 3:05 pm

[quote="kurohinge1"]

Although, I suspect many regular readers of this board may think twice about eating goat again. ]

Huh?
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Postby kurohinge1 » Thu May 01, 2008 5:16 pm

Greji wrote:Huh?


:lol:

I'm sure that's what the Sudanese guy said too.

;)
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Postby ttjereth » Thu May 01, 2008 5:47 pm

Greji wrote:Hey, I didn't see any prohibitory laws in there banning a fella from having a little of the monthly wine...
:cool:

Leviticus 15:19-30 And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. And every thing that she lieth upon in her separation shall be unclean: every thing also that she sitteth upon shall be unclean. And whosoever toucheth her bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And whosoever toucheth any thing that she sat upon shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even. And if it be on her bed, or on any thing whereon she sitteth, when he toucheth it, he shall be unclean until the even. And if any man lie with her at all, and her flowers be upon him, he shall be unclean seven days]Leviticus 20:18[/URL] And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Ezekiel 18:5-6 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, and hath not ... come near to a menstruous woman.....
Look again ;)

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Postby ramchop » Thu May 01, 2008 7:06 pm

[quote="ttjereth"]and on the eighth day she shall take unto her two turtles, or two young pigeons, and bring them unto the priest, to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And the priest shall offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering]

They must have gone through a hell of a lot of turtles back then. I say they should bring this law back, but with crows instead of pigeons. Nasty f*ckers - one thing I didn't miss about Japan.
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Postby ttjereth » Thu May 01, 2008 7:25 pm

ramchop wrote:They must have gone through a hell of a lot of turtles back then. I say they should bring this law back, but with crows instead of pigeons. Nasty f*ckers - one thing I didn't miss about Japan.


Since the old testament prohibits touching crows as well I don't think it'd catch on :)

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Postby ramchop » Thu May 01, 2008 7:31 pm

ttjereth wrote:Since the old testament prohibits touching crows as well I don't think it'd catch on :)


But since they'd be in a state of uncleanliness anyway, what harm could the monthly crow do? It's not as if the pure and clean menfolk would have to touch the evil bastards.
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Postby ttjereth » Thu May 01, 2008 8:25 pm

ramchop wrote:But since they'd be in a state of uncleanliness anyway, what harm could the monthly crow do? It's not as if the pure and clean menfolk would have to touch the evil bastards.


Ahh, yeah hadn't thought of it that way. So long as it's just the dirty females it's okay I guess. :ninja4:

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Postby kusai Jijii » Thu May 01, 2008 9:15 pm

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Postby Mulboyne » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:41 am

Still rumbling on:

Catholic News: Pope meets with Japanese bishops to discuss Neocatechumenal Way
Japanese bishops, including the president of the bishops' conference, met with Pope Benedict XVI and top Vatican officials to discuss the Neocatechumenal Way. The Dec. 13 meeting with four Japanese bishops had been called by Pope Benedict, said the president of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of Japan, Archbishop Leo Jun Ikenaga of Osaka. He told Catholic News Service that the meeting lasted nearly two hours and included the Vatican secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, and "several other cardinals." While the archbishop would not comment on the substance of the meeting, he said the bishops would have to have further discussions with the Vatican and the Neocatechumenal Way's co-founder, Kiko Arguello. The Japanese bishops "have to make a plan to proceed," he said, adding, "We have to proceed slowly."

The meeting came more than a year after the Neocatechumenal Way's Redemptoris Mater seminary in Takamatsu was closed. Bishop Francis Osamu Mizobe of Takamatsu and the diocesan pastoral council wanted to shut down the seminary because of concerns that the activity of the Way's members was damaging the unity of Japan's small Catholic community. The Vatican conducted an investigation in 2007, and in 2008, Cardinal Bertone released a letter announcing the seminary would be closed and that many of the seminarians and faculty would be transferred to the Redemptoris Mater seminary in Rome. According to an April 2009 news release on the Japanese bishops' website, the Neocatechumenal Way disagreed with the closure.

The bishops' concerns with the Way and the seminary were so strong that they traveled to Rome twice in early 2008 after their "ad limina" visit in December 2007. They met with Vatican officials and the pope to discuss what Tokyo Archbishop Peter Takeo Okada, then-president of the bishops' conference, said was "a serious problem." "The powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational. It has caused sharp, painful division and strife within the church," the archbishop said Dec. 15, 2007, in an address to the pope during the bishops' "ad limina" visit, made every five years to report on the status of the dioceses. The archbishop appealed to the pope for assistance, saying his input "was direly needed."
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Postby Screwed-down Hairdo » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:48 am

Mulboyne wrote:Still rumbling on:

Catholic News: Pope meets with Japanese bishops to discuss Neocatechumenal Way


So, all very interesting, but...exactly at what point in time will they start fucking little boys?
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Postby Greji » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:45 pm

Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:So, all very interesting, but...exactly at what point in time will they start fucking little boys?
Start? I wasn't aware they had stopped.....
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Postby Screwed-down Hairdo » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:31 pm

Greji wrote:Start? I wasn't aware they had stopped.....
:confused:


A miracle! No wonder the Pope's infallible if his flock can discuss such worthless drivel while simultaneously buggering pre-pubescent catamite altar boys.
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Postby Greji » Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:48 pm

Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:A miracle! No wonder the Pope's infallible if his flock can discuss such worthless drivel while simultaneously buggering pre-pubescent catamite altar boys.


With a pint in each paw....
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Postby American Oyaji » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:15 pm

I've said for years:

"The popes were pimps"
I will not abide ignorant intolerance just for the sake of getting along.
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Postby Screwed-down Hairdo » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:59 am

Greji wrote:With a pint in each paw....
:cool:

And a spliff dangling from the side of his mouth that doesn't have a little boy's dickie bird in it...
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Postby Mulboyne » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:02 am

Catholic.net: Neocatechumenal Way Will Not Be Suspended in Japan
According to a spokesman of movement, Alvaro de Juana, this decision was communicated recently in writing by the Vatican Secretariat of State to the Neocatechumenal Way founders: Kiko Arguello, Carmen Hernandez and Mario Pezzi. De Juana informed ZENIT that the letter came after Benedict XVI presided at a Dec. 13 meeting with a representation of several Japanese bishops, among them the president of the episcopal conference, Archbishop Leo Ikenaga of Osaka, to address some aspects of the Neocatechumenal Way in Japan. A few weeks earlier, the Japanese episcopal conference announced that it would suspend the activities of the movement in Japan for five years. De Juana explained that "the Holy See has made a series of decisions," which were revealed in Cardinal Bertone's letter. "The first indicates that the suspension of the Neocatechumenal Way in Japan for five years -- as attempted by the country's Episcopal Conference -- is not admissible," he said. On the other hand, the spokesman added, it specified that "the dialogue between the bishops of Japan and the Neocatechumenal Way must be taken up again as soon as possible with the help of a competent delegate who loves the Way and respects the problems of the bishops. Finally, if necessary, the latter must give concrete indications to the Way for each of its own dioceses, avoiding pronouncements of the episcopal conference," explained De Juana...more...
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Postby Coligny » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:17 am

American Oyaji wrote:I've said for years:

"The popes were pimps"


This one is also a Nazi... (cherry on top)

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Postby Catoneinutica » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:19 am

The atavistic Japanese need to bully overcomes all. We've got friends in Karuizawa who gave up on going to mass because they felt the priest was too busy fundraising for his parishioners back in Colombia to deal with the obatarian and her associates who'd taken over the church's social scene.
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Postby Catoneinutica » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:29 am

Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:And a spliff dangling from the side of his mouth that doesn't have a little boy's dickie bird in it...


Meh, I'm not a Catholic, but it seems like any time you've got gender segregation, you've got diddling, whether it be choir boys, Mormon basketball, Etonian "character building," or Pashtuns driving around with their dolled-up boyfriends.
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Postby Greji » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:31 pm

Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:And a spliff dangling from the side of his mouth that doesn't have a little boy's dickie bird in it...

Damn Hair! You're tough. Just 'cause you suck one little dick, doesn't make you a bad guy, does it?.....
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Postby Screwed-down Hairdo » Sat May 21, 2011 5:23 pm

Not really topic-related, but according to the Christ cults, the world's apparently gonna end soon.
Don't know what I should do. I'm supposed to be going to AA, but if i'm gonna die anyway, I may as well just go get sozzled. Or, if they are true, maybe I should revert to Catholicism and go fuck an 8-year-old boy to make it easier to get into Heaven.
Anybody else got plans for the end of the world?
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Postby osopolar » Sat May 21, 2011 5:25 pm

Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:Not really topic-related, but according to the Christ cults, the world's apparently gonna end soon.
Don't know what I should do. I'm supposed to be going to AA, but if i'm gonna die anyway, I may as well just go get sozzled. Or, if they are true, maybe I should revert to Catholicism and go fuck an 8-year-old boy to make it easier to get into Heaven.
Anybody else got plans for the end of the world?


already downed a few.. i'll make sure to drink one or three for you, ya know, to keep you on track. ;)

don't hate. masturbate.
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Postby Yokohammer » Sat May 21, 2011 5:27 pm

Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:Not really topic-related, but according to the Christ cults, the world's apparently gonna end soon.
Don't know what I should do. I'm supposed to be going to AA, but if i'm gonna die anyway, I may as well just go get sozzled. Or, if they are true, maybe I should revert to Catholicism and go fuck an 8-year-old boy to make it easier to get into Heaven.
Anybody else got plans for the end of the world?

The worldwide earthquake is supposed to start at 6:00 PM and spread around the globe, arriving at each time zone at precisely 6:00 PM right? Well, it's already past 6:00 PM in parts of the world, and thus far there are no reports of widespread destruction, so I'm gonna take a wild guess that the world isn't going to end just yet.

I'd get dressed for that meeting if I were you.

Can't wait to hear whatever excuse the end-of-worlders are going to come up with this time.
_/_/_/ Phmeh ... _/_/_/
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