Tohoku Earthquake, Tsunami and Nuclear Disaster!!!

[CrankyBastard]

Now, once more, for the last time, and with real feeling: go fuck yourself.

Unfortunately, Tug4Life is unable to comply with your request owing to some confusion as to the location of his own arsehole.

[canman]

I read on the net today, that a group traveled to Ishinomaki Miyagi from the Kansai area and were handing out Y30000 to people living in evacuation centers. They also went to the local town office and gave them money. At this point they were warned by the town hall not to do that again. If they wanted to give money, they should donate it to the Red Cross, or give it to the twon hall so they could distribute it. Soon when other people living in other evacuation centers learned of this, they called the town hall and were angry they didn't get any money.
Now is it just me, or don't people have the right to give money to who ever they like where ever they like. If I were them I wouldn't entrust it to the town hall, and if you give it to the Red Cross, who knows when the people would get it. Here is the link in Japanese.
http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20110423-00000651-yom-soci

[Thug4Life]

Well, you're partially right Jack Off Hammer and I do hate the Japanese government and Tepco for ignoring the safety guidelines and deceiving everyone. That's true. And well some Japanese girls are awesome in bed, but, not much more than that. And, believe me, Chinese chicks are way better. Well, either way, you probably don't care about what time it is here in China (i.e. It is taking over the fucking world dumbass.)

Anyway, back to what I originally stated and YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND FOR STAYING THERE. The meltdown (which started on the day of the big quake) cannot be stopped. Why do you think that they just now banned people from going inside the evacuation zone? They know that now. They just don't want to admit the fact that re-criticality is really happening and they have no way to stop it. Reactor #1 is going to have a nuclear explosion any day now. You'll see.

[damn name]

Fukushima prefecture may have to change its website.

http://www4.pref.fukushima.jp/investment/e/04advantage/02.html

[gaijinalways]

Quite a turn of the media, so to speak. I can't seem to relocate the video I saw with the radiation measurements. They stated that at 30 km, people were getting one year's exposure in 4 days. At another location 40 km away, one year's exposure was attained in 2 weeks. At both locations, people were not staying indoors, quite the contrary, kids were playing outside and people were going about their business as usual.

Disaster in the making?


http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/update-from-the-field-radiation-team/blog/34320


http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/update-from-the-field-radiation-team/blog/34264

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/call-for-further-evacuation-around-fukushima/blog/34178

Of course, some people like to put Greenpeace in the same category as Sea Shepard. I certainly think they're a lot more credible.

[Coligny]

My original question to Sarutaro was fair, though, wasn't it?

No...

you want proof that it's unsafe.

Nobody have proof that it's unsafe.

But

Nobody have proof that it's safe.

There are elements indicating that unsafe food made it's way in the distribution channels.

Therefore, if you err on the side of caution, the burden of the proof lies in fukushima's vegetable to prove being safe. Not in us to prove them being dangerous.

We provide you analysis why there might be a potential risk.

You say that it's irrelevant beside previous happenstance.

you are playing on 2 levels. 1 is tainted food distributed 2 is it really any dangerous. 1 is YES 2 is you don't know, you have no evidence at all beside you own makeshift theatre of claims it would take an unprecedented succession of phenomenal event for lethal food to land in your plate.

You don't look like someone who aim for an honest debate, you look like your only goal is to have the last word whatever it takes. And on a topic (shopping preference) were your opinion is not even relevant. Meanwhile if the risks happens to be true or greater than expected, your behaviour switch from trolling to criminal.

One last time, when you don't know especially when the alternative options do not involve any costs or behaviour change, better safe than sorry...

[damn name]

Sarutaro is a reporter. I'd like to know, too, what facts he knows that the rest of us don't know. If he wanted it to be private, why did he post anything at all? What was he saying? Are we suppose to just read everything and not ask questions?

There is no ban on moyashi. Even the shipment of vegetables mistakenly sold was well within the health safety guidelines.

I mistakenly bought some French cheese and my wife went ballistic. I need to improve my katakana reading abilities...

[cstaylor]

I mistakenly bought some French cheese and my wife went ballistic. I need to improve my katakana reading abilities...

Well, you need to educate your wife on her palate. Melting cheese should not be served with wine.

[Typhoon]

Reading the uninformed, scientifically illiterate, fear mongering posts about Fukushima Daiichi spread across the internet made me realize that Idiocracy is a contemporary documentary rather than a fiction about the future.

Exhibit A:

ALERT: Japan admits daily radioactive release from Fukushima at least 15,000% higher than previously announced-Blames calculation error

[Typhoon]

Quite a turn of the media, so to speak. I can't seem to relocate the video I saw with the radiation measurements. They stated that at 30 km, people were getting one year's exposure in 4 days. At another location 40 km away, one year's exposure was attained in 2 weeks. At both locations, people were not staying indoors, quite the contrary, kids were playing outside and people were going about their business as usual.

Disaster in the making?

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/update-from-the-field-radiation-team/blog/34320

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/update-from-the-field-radiation-team/blog/34264

http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/news/Blogs/makingwaves/call-for-further-evacuation-around-fukushima/blog/34178

Of course, some people like to put Greenpeace in the same category as Sea Shepard. I certainly think they're a lot more credible.

Greenpeace depends on FUD for funding.

Okay, to be fair, one level above Slug4Life.

[Coligny]

There is no ban on moyashi. Even the shipment of vegetables mistakenly sold was well within the health safety guidelines.

ok, so we will need an umpteenth metaphor to have the concept sink.

Great, what was sold while not supposed to be sold was not lethal, that just mean the people who made the mistake will not be likely to face criminal charges. But that also mean they are unable to follow a procedure or an order restricting distribution of goods.

It's like putting a ban on chinese made copycat spare parts for boeing planes.

If a plane get fitted with some, it might not explode on the spot at the next take off. Do you then deduce that everything is fine and people are phearmongering against chinese parts and they have to proof they are not safe because you said they where not unsafe ? (*)

Same probleme here, you got people that can't follow orders, therefore you have to improve scrutiny because every parts are suspicious until they are proven to be really genuine.

(*) actually, yes there's some accounting morons that usually do these claims, they are the first to land in jail when problems arise.

[Greji]

ok, so we will need an umpteenth metaphor to have the concept sink.
Great, what was sold while not supposed to be sold was not lethal

Ahhh, come on Coligny. So one slipped through. There are accidental cases like this, or blackmarketers doing the same type of thing in all countries and/or levels of society. It doesn't mean that this is exclusively the Tohoko Gumi, or that they are aiming at you personally! Have you checked on your cat. The cat may be out to poision you for buying cheap cat food!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Sarutaro is a reporter. I'd like to know, too, what facts he knows that the rest of us don't know. If he wanted it to be private, why did he post anything at all? What was he saying? Are we suppose to just read everything and not ask questions?

There is no ban on moyashi. Even the shipment of vegetables mistakenly sold was well within the health safety guidelines.

I mistakenly bought some French cheese and my wife went ballistic. I need to improve my katakana reading abilities...

So from the context of this thread you couldn't figure out why his wife was upset? You're about a sharp as a bowling ball then.

[omae mona]

So from the context of this thread you couldn't figure out why his wife was upset? You're about a sharp as a bowling ball then.

SJ, there are lots of reasons she could have been upset, and it's not at all obvious which one it is. Here are some examples:

1. She heard there is an official ban on shipping moyashi from Fukushima, and this product slipped through anyway.
2. She heard somebody has detected dangerous levels of contamination in Fukushima moyashi, but the government has not imposed a ban on shipping anyway.
3. She doesn't feel she has enough information to make any informed judgments, so she's decided it's just safer not to buy the moyashi.

Which one of these (or any other alternative) do you think is the obvious answer about why his wife was upset? My bowling ball can't figure out which one it is. I think most people's reaction and future decisions would be totally different depending on whether it's 1, 2, or 3.

[nikoneko]

SJ, there are lots of reasons she could have been upset, and it's not at all obvious which one it is. Here are some examples:

1. She heard there is an official ban on shipping moyashi from Fukushima, and this product slipped through anyway.
2. She heard somebody has detected dangerous levels of contamination in Fukushima moyashi, but the government has not imposed a ban on shipping anyway.
3. She doesn't feel she has enough information to make any informed judgments, so she's decided it's just safer not to buy the moyashi.

Which one of these (or any other alternative) do you think is the obvious answer about why his wife was upset? My bowling ball can't figure out which one it is. I think most people's reaction and future decisions would be totally different depending on whether it's 1, 2, or 3.

I think it's more complex than that. I laughed at the original post about moyashi because I'm not supposed to buy vegetables myself unless I'm sure of the location they came from. My wife is not at all your typical trendy j-girl either, lived in the US for 15 years where we met, smarter than me and all around cool chick, we've been married for almost 15 years now. It's just basically kinda prudent these days. Especially when we have a 4 year old in the house. I'm also not a paranoid type and neither is she, but we do pay attention to what we eat in general and this is just one more part of that.

Anyway personal shit aside, this thread has been trolled by thug4life and a few more. Don't feed the fuckers, they're getting what they want. This thread is by far the most informative place I have seen, period, for info about everything involving the disaster. Been reading this board for 9 years or something and (drunken) posting for a few months. Never seen it degrade into this. Would call you all out by name, but long story short from coligny in his concrete bunker to yokohammer rockin it survivalist style, agree with all of you and thank you for sharing your opinions. But the FG wa is kinda getting broken by trolls and my lurker/drunk ass felt like saying something. Weirdly this thread has become important to me as a rational source of opinions from all mindsets, would hate to see that go.

P.S. Before I hit submit I realized my last few last posts were about the nature of this board. Please ignore, not intended, it's just tough from Kobe to actually provide any kind of real info myself, so I lurk and opine from the sides...

[Thug4Life]

The typhoon rainy season starts next month. You still have time to run for your lives.

[Yokohammer]

Been reading this board for 9 years or something and (drunken) posting for a few months. Never seen it degrade into this...

Don't worry about the little scuffles. They happen all the time. Sometimes people just need to vent (guilty as charged), and sometimes baiting possible trolls is the best way to find out if they really are trolls or just well-intentioned posters with poor social skills. Maybe others can spot 'em a mile off, but I cant. Once they've been outed they usually get ignored and eventually move on ... except of course for the ones who are hilarious fun to bait.

Anyway, I think you're right that we should keep this thread focused on the disaster and related issues, so (note to self) lets try and do just that.

I'm heading up to Sendai today for the first time since the quake, and it will be interesting to see what the mood is up there. Apparently things are rapidly getting back to normal in the city, and there's sort of a perception gap developing between the city dwellers and those who are still living amongst rubble along the coast. If there's anything worth reporting I'll pop in when I get back.

[Thug4Life]

Sorry for the rant Yokohammer. I'll be nicer from here on in. I am just so f@cking pissed at how hypercapitalism is taking the world apart more and more as each year goes by. Illegal wars, financial crisis, BP oilspill and now this man-made disaster. And this time, it very well could be a case where they can't fix it, and radiation will continue to be leaked and contaminate the entire world. Damn. Take care.

[cstaylor]

Atmospheric radiation leak underestimated

Data released by the government indicates radioactive material was leaking into the atmosphere from the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant in early April in greater quantities than previously estimated.

Radioactive material was being released into the atmosphere from the plant at an estimated rate of 154 terabecquerels per day as of April 5, according to data released by the Cabinet Office's Nuclear Safety Commission on Saturday.

The NSC previously estimated radiation leakage on April 5 at "less than 1 terabecquerel per hour."

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20110424dy04.htm

Paging Dr. Omae Mona...

[Samurai_Jerk]

SJ, there are lots of reasons she could have been upset, and it's not at all obvious which one it is. Here are some examples:

1. She heard there is an official ban on shipping moyashi from Fukushima, and this product slipped through anyway.
2. She heard somebody has detected dangerous levels of contamination in Fukushima moyashi, but the government has not imposed a ban on shipping anyway.
3. She doesn't feel she has enough information to make any informed judgments, so she's decided it's just safer not to buy the moyashi.

Which one of these (or any other alternative) do you think is the obvious answer about why his wife was upset? My bowling ball can't figure out which one it is. I think most people's reaction and future decisions would be totally different depending on whether it's 1, 2, or 3.

OM,

This is getting tedious. You seem to be in some kind of contest to see who can outdo Mr. Spock at being logical. However, by doing so you're starting to seem crazier and less logical than pretty much anyone else. If you really dreamed up all those different scenarios based on his comment, you're fucking losing it.

His wife freaked out because she's worreid that Fukushima-san produce may be contaminated with radiation. Why? Because there's a fucking nuclear reactor leaking radiation in Fukushima. Are you really looking for any deeped insight that that?

[Coligny]

Paging Dr. Omae Mona...

Doood... no...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Doood... no...

Run for cover, Colingy. More bullshit incoming.

[omae mona]

SJ and others, I am participating in this thread to share actual information and facts. If you guys want to use the thread to share your emotions about how frightening this event is to you, that's perfectly fine too and I am not asking you to stop. The vast majority of people around me in Real Life are interpreting the events the same way as I am, assessing risks objectively based on the information we have, and we're coming to a very different conclusion than some of the more active posters in this thread.

But I am always looking for continuous updates on information, as the situation can change from day to day. When Sarutaro posted something that sounded like it might be based on some new information, I asked what it was. I am glad you can read Sarutaro's wife's mind, but I can't. To me and the people around me it's not at ALL obvious that there is any reason to change our eating habits one iota. I know it seems obvious to you from your point of view. Until I hear otherwise, I assume people on the internet are behaving similarly to the people around me in real life, and that means that they are making adjustments to daily life pretty much based on concrete reasons that I understand. I still think that Sarutaro's wife might have known something I would be interested in learning about.

You need to realize that for many of us, this thread feels similar to participating on a science thread to discuss evolution, trying to exchange information, and having creationists show up and start screaming that the answer to where animals and humans came from is obvious, and we
are being condescending and contemptuous to even be discussing it.

If you call paying attention to science and the assessments of professionals trying "to outdo Mr. Spock", there are a hell of a lot of Mr. Spocks around me. It's your right to freak out as much as you want. But don't fucking tell me or others we're not allowed to be rational and try to have an honest exchange of factual information.

Because there's a fucking nuclear reactor leaking radiation in Fukushima. Are you really looking for any deeped insight that that?

Hell yes. That is not insight at all. And most people are not thinking along the same lines as you. I assume Sarutaro's wife might have heard some actual information, and I was just fucking asking if that was the case.

The fact that you are impugning my motives for asking such a simple question tells me a lot about how secure you're feeling about your thoughts.

[omae mona]

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/20110424dy04.htm

Paging Dr. Omae Mona...

Well, I heard somewhere that "tera" means "a trillion". Am I supposed to have more insight than that?

If you are trying to get me to make some kind of statement about what impact that information has on our health, uh-uh, I ain't gonna bite. I don't know diddly about it until I read what the experts say and I am not going to jump to any conclusion before then.

I am sure lots of other people will jump to conclusions because the article has the word "radiation" and "trillion" together, and that's their prerogative.

[cstaylor]

Well, I heard somewhere that "tera" means "a trillion". Am I supposed to have more insight than that?

If you are trying to get me to make some kind of statement about what impact that information has on our health, uh-uh, I ain't gonna bite. I don't know diddly about it until I read what the experts say and I am not going to jump to any conclusion before then.

I am sure lots of other people will jump to conclusions because the article has the word "radiation" and "trillion" together, and that's their prerogative.

Actually, I was referring to the food issue. We have one responsible party who has much to gain from downplaying the issue (TEPCO), and then weeks later the truth tells out (JISA's information release).

With the food, we have one responsible party (JA) who has much to gain from downplaying the issue...

[Cyka UchuuJin]

hope your journey north goes ok, hammer.

Don't worry about the little scuffles. They happen all the time. Sometimes people just need to vent (guilty as charged), and sometimes baiting possible trolls is the best way to find out if they really are trolls or just well-intentioned posters with poor social skills. Maybe others can spot 'em a mile off, but I cant. Once they've been outed they usually get ignored and eventually move on ... except of course for the ones who are hilarious fun to bait.

Anyway, I think you're right that we should keep this thread focused on the disaster and related issues, so (note to self) lets try and do just that.

I'm heading up to Sendai today for the first time since the quake, and it will be interesting to see what the mood is up there. Apparently things are rapidly getting back to normal in the city, and there's sort of a perception gap developing between the city dwellers and those who are still living amongst rubble along the coast. If there's anything worth reporting I'll pop in when I get back.

[Samurai_Jerk]

SJ and others, I am participating in this thread to share actual information and facts. If you guys want to use the thread to share your emotions about how frightening this event is to you, that's perfectly fine too and I am not asking you to stop. The vast majority of people around me in Real Life are interpreting the events the same way as I am, assessing risks objectively based on the information we have, and we're coming to a very different conclusion than some of the more active posters in this thread.

But I am always looking for continuous updates on information, as the situation can change from day to day. When Sarutaro posted something that sounded like it might be based on some new information, I asked what it was. I am glad you can read Sarutaro's wife's mind, but I can't. To me and the people around me it's not at ALL obvious that there is any reason to change our eating habits one iota. I know it seems obvious to you from your point of view. Until I hear otherwise, I assume people on the internet are behaving similarly to the people around me in real life, and that means that they are making adjustments to daily life pretty much based on concrete reasons that I understand. I still think that Sarutaro's wife might have known something I would be interested in learning about.

You need to realize that for many of us, this thread feels similar to participating on a science thread to discuss evolution, trying to exchange information, and having creationists show up and start screaming that the answer to where animals and humans came from is obvious, and we
are being condescending and contemptuous to even be discussing it.

If you call paying attention to science and the assessments of professionals trying "to outdo Mr. Spock", there are a hell of a lot of Mr. Spocks around me. It's your right to freak out as much as you want. But don't fucking tell me or others we're not allowed to be rational and try to have an honest exchange of factual information.



Hell yes. That is not insight at all. And most people are not thinking along the same lines as you. I assume Sarutaro's wife might have heard some actual information, and I was just fucking asking if that was the case.

The fact that you are impugning my motives for asking such a simple question tells me a lot about how secure you're feeling about your thoughts.

This is a serious question: Do you have OCD?

[omae mona]

This is a serious question: Do you have OCD?

Oh my gosh. SJ, I am so sorry, I didn't realize where you were coming from. No, I don't have OCD, so I probably cannot understand what you are going through now. I see your point. It's only natural that somebody who has to wash their hands every 10 minutes due to fear of bacteria would also be panicked about radioactive contamination that almost certainly doesn't exist in amounts that could harm us.

This must be a very tough time for you. Is there anything we can do to help? I know some people that might have access to medication, if you are having trouble getting your hands on it.

[Mike Oxlong]

[Yokohammer]

hope your journey north goes ok, hammer.

Hey, it's only about 25 km ... not much of a "journey."

Anyway, I went. Not really much to report. The roads are screwed. I foolishly decided to take the highway, which it turns out is now a roller coaster ride. The focus is mostly only the tsunami (as it should be), but the quake itself did quite a bit of damage as well. So the speed limit on what is normally a 100 km/h highway is currently 50 km/h, which probably makes sense because hitting some of those bumps at full speed could launch a more aerodynamically designed vehicle into orbit. So basically I paid highway tolls to travel slower than I would have on the regular roads. Although, to be fair, I took the regular roads on the way back and some of them are worse.

A cursory glance at Sendai wouldn't give you the impression that anything major had happened at all. But then you start noticing that quite a few buildings have safety nets attached to the walls, and that behind the nets the facades of those buildings have crumbled. Some of the older buildings in the city have been declared unsafe and are currently cordoned off and empty. I usually park in the Sendai station rooftop parking lot, but that's closed too. There's lots of repair work going on.

The market near the station was absolutely stuffed with produce ... vegetables, meats, fish, etc. ... so there's no longer a problem there.

People are just going about their business for the most part, but if you eavesdrop on the conversations going on around town, the subject is usually the quake/tsunami. The standard greeting seems to be "Are you alright, is your family OK, is your home OK?"

But that is in stark contrast to the scene in the hard-hit coastal areas. The city will be well and truly back on its feet long before the tsunami-hit areas are even a tenth of the way there. That's a good thing, because a functional hub will be essential to the overall reconstruction effort. But as I mentioned in my previous post that will lead to a perception gap between people who live in and hardly ever get out of the city and the people who are now homeless and without jobs along the coast. I don't think that will lead to any serious social problems in this case, but it does mean that it will be necessary to keep the big picture in perspective. It's easy now, because the disaster is still fresh in everyone's minds and the scars are still visible even in the city. But a year from now, say, when the city has a fresh new coat of paint while the rubble is still being cleared away on the coast (and that's in the water as much as on land), it won't be that easy.

It's likely to be a long and rocky road.