All Raw Beef In Restaurants Not Fit to be Eaten Raw

[Mulboyne]

Yomiuri: Beef served raw, but intended only for cooking
Not one single piece of beef to be eaten raw that met governmental standards was shipped in fiscal 2008 and 2009--and possibly in earlier fiscal years--but since many restaurants served raw-beef dishes during this period, meat that was meant to be cooked was apparently served as raw fare, it has been learned. The discovery came in the wake of recent incidents of mass food poisoning at yakiniku barbecue restaurants that killed two boys, allegedly caused by eating yukhoe raw-beef dishes. The Consumer Affairs Agency and the Health, Labor and Welfare Ministry suspect that beef that does not meet government standards is still being served raw at restaurants. The ministry and agency said they would investigate the problem with an eye to revising the standards...As there is no punishment for not meeting the standards, restaurants likely knowingly served meat meant to be cooked as yukhoe or sashimi. "The restaurants are aware of the possible danger of what they're doing, but they can't resist serving those popular dishes," an official of the All Japan Yakiniku Association said. "So, they accept the responsibility of serving them."...more...

[omae mona]

[Yokohammer]

Yukke is really popular. Sort of a standard starter dish that people can tuck into right away, while the yaki-niku is still cooking.

Used to partake myself from time to time, but never really grew to like the stuff so I gave it up.

So what about steak tartar? Must be just as dicey.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Is my brain foggy from the booze last night or is that article saying that not one distributor in Japan sold sashimi grade beef to any restaurant of any kind. So even super high-end places were (are?) serving sub-par beef? That doesn't sound right.

Edit: BTW, what's the deal in Japan with making regulations and laws that are uneforcable?

[Mulboyne]

Is my brain foggy from the booze last night or is that article saying that not one distributor in Japan sold sashimi grade beef to any restaurant of any kind. So even super high-end places were (are?) serving sub-par beef? That doesn't sound right.

Edit: BTW, what's the deal in Japan with making regulations and laws that are unenforcable?

That's how I read the article. The official stance seems to be "we don't condone you serving it but we won't punish you if you do. If anything goes wrong, it's your fault". It explains why the owner of Yakiniku Ebisu started blaming the government when he gave a press conference.

It's unclear whether the standard in question is reasonable or virtually impossible to meet. After all, most people seem to think the problem lies with the restaurant buying cheap meat rather than serving yukke at all.

[Samurai_Jerk]

That's how I read the article. The official stance seems to be "we don't condone you serving it but we won't punish you if you do. If anything goes wrong, it's your fault". It explains why the owner of Yakiniku Ebisu started blaming the government when he gave a press conference.

It's unclear whether the standard in question is reasonable or virtually impossible to meet. After all, most people seem to think the problem lies with the restaurant buying cheap meat rather than serving yukke at all.

Good point about the standards. Anyway, the fact is that when you eat raw or rare meat of any kind you're taking a risk. And people definitely shouldn't be letting their little kids eat sashimi or rare meat of any kind because they're more likely to die from food poisoning.

[Greji]

Good point about the standards. Anyway, the fact is that when you eat raw or rare meat of any kind you're taking a risk. And people definitely shouldn't be letting their little kids eat sashimi or rare meat of any kind because they're more likely to die from food poisoning.

Still, Noriko always eats her meat raw.....

[sublight]

What surprised me was the Ebisu's rule for yukke that said it had to be consumed within 48 hours of being sliced.

48 hours? Eating raw ground meat after letting it sit for two entire days? And they couldn't even keep to that time limit? Are you shitting me? (well, since people are now getting sick from fecal bacteria, I guess they were shitting everyone).

The only times I've eaten steak tartare, the butcher shop ground it at the time of purchase and we ate it within an hour or two.

[waruta]

Most beef is aged 20-30 days wet or dry, plus I think they assumed that the sesame oil would hold the moisture in/block out anything in the fridge for up to two days.

Just watched NHK and it said that the bacteria was found on the supplier side and not the restaurant's fault.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Just watched NHK and it said that the bacteria was found on the supplier side and not the restaurant's fault.

The question is could it have been avoided? In other words, is it the type of contamination that will inevitably happend sometime or is the supplier unsanitary. Like I said before, when you decided to eat raw meat or fish you're taking a risk. It doesn't stop me. I love sashimi whether it's chicken, fish or beef and I love raw oysters and rare pork too. I also know that I'm taking a risk when I eat it.

[Coligny]

The question is could it have been avoided? In other words, is it the type of contamination that will inevitably happend sometime or is the supplier unsanitary. Like I said before, when you decided to eat raw meat or fish you're taking a risk. It doesn't stop me. I love sashimi whether it's chicken, fish or beef and I love raw oysters and rare pork too. I also know that I'm taking a risk when I eat it.

Raw oyster are different. You don't actually eat them raw... it's closer to eating them alive... That's why you never eat a naturally open oyster. because that mean she's dead...

Still remember when i ate my furst oyster as a kid... took me years of therapy took get over it...

[Catoneinutica]

Raw oyster are different. You don't actually eat them raw... it's closer to eating them alive... That's why you never eat a naturally open oyster. because that mean she's dead...

Still remember when i ate my furst oyster as a kid... took me years of therapy took get over it...

Heh. I don't think a lifetime of therapy would help me get over a tapeworm, something I expect a few of these tartar eaters have ended up with. You notice nasty little segments in your poop, you go to the doc, she gives you a pill, you take it, and soon experience the violent death spasms of the critter in your GI tract. A while later, you go to take a shit, and then sit there and pull out what seems like miles of tapeworm corpse.

-catone
-and raw ground beef?! Yes, I'll have the BSE-Tapeworm Combo Platter please.

[Ke11iente]

According to the ministry, of about 200 processors nationwide, only 11... cleared the standards to ship meat to be eaten raw. However, these shipments were for horse meat and horse liver, not beef. .

Well I guess if you want to eat your meat raw, you should make sure it neighed.

All that aside, even if they had *cooked* the beef, wouldn't they still be fucked? No one cooks it that thoroughly, and don't you have to get it really well-done to kill E Coli?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Raw oyster are different. You don't actually eat them raw... it's closer to eating them alive

That doesn't mean they're safe. You can get some really nasty food poisoning from oysters.

Heh. I don't think a lifetime of therapy would help me get over a tapeworm, something I expect a few of these tartar eaters have ended up with. You notice nasty little segments in your poop, you go to the doc, she gives you a pill, you take it, and soon experience the violent death spasms of the critter in your GI tract. A while later, you go to take a shit, and then sit there and pull out what seems like miles of tapeworm corpse.

-catone
-and raw ground beef?! Yes, I'll have the BSE-Tapeworm Combo Platter please.

Do you eat sashimi or rare steaks?

[Yokohammer]

I have just learned that the standards for basashi (raw horse meat) are incredibly strict. The facilities where the meat is processed are essentially refrigerated clean rooms: the workers cut and handle the meat while wearing full-body sanitary suits in clean rooms kept at temperatures below 10 degrees at all times, and at one facility they spend half the day (10 hours every single day) cleaning and disinfecting the place. The workers undergo feces and other examinations every other day to ensure that they aren't infected.

Probably explains why basashi is so expensive. But it would seem that the same rules should be enforced for other types of raw meat as well, eh?

[Coligny]

That doesn't mean they're safe. You can get some really nasty food poisoning from oysters.

Never said it was safe... Eating organisms that feed themselves by filtering sea water is a bit above my understanding skillz... especially around Japanese coasts...

[Catoneinutica]

That doesn't mean they're safe. You can get some really nasty food poisoning from oysters.



Do you eat sashimi or rare steaks?

Sashimi yes, but only at better restaurants (yeah, right). Rare steaks, no way Jose. And I've kinda drifted away from ground beef since the BSE thing: I don't like worry about whether there's stray spinal cord material in my burger.

-catone
-hot dogs, though: they're pretty much my favorite food. And you can get a hot dog anywhere, so it's easy for me to eat right. But people come up to me and say, ewww, hot dogs have lots of really weird things in them. But that's okay, because I love dog lips.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Rare steaks, no way Jose.

I hope you just don't eat steaks then. Or at least not decent ones. People who over cook qaulity beef (and anything more than rare for good steak or roast beef is over cooking) should be drawn and quartered.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I have just learned that the standards for basashi (raw horse meat) are incredibly strict. The facilities where the meat is processed are essentially refrigerated clean rooms: the workers cut and handle the meat while wearing full-body sanitary suits in clean rooms kept at temperatures below 10 degrees at all times, and at one facility they spend half the day (10 hours every single day) cleaning and disinfecting the place. The workers undergo feces and other examinations every other day to ensure that they aren't infected.

Probably explains why basashi is so expensive. But it would seem that the same rules should be enforced for other types of raw meat as well, eh?

Speaking of basashi ...



source

[Yokohammer]

Speaking of basashi ...

source

That's pretty funny.
They talk about eating horse as if it was utterly unthinkable.

That's culture for ya!

[Coligny]

Sashimi yes, but only at better restaurants (yeah, right). Rare steaks, no way Jose. And I've kinda drifted away from ground beef since the BSE thing: I don't like worry about whether there's stray spinal cord material in my burger.

-catone
-hot dogs, though: they're pretty much my favorite food. And you can get a hot dog anywhere, so it's easy for me to eat right. But people come up to me and say, ewww, hot dogs have lots of really weird things in them. But that's okay, because I love dog lips.

If you can catch the BBC serie "filthy cities", one is aboot the old way of making sausages... Don't remember if it was Paris or NY... I've never been so close to vomit in front of the telly... But it's seriously good stuff...

[Mock Cockpit]

A while later, you go to take a shit, and then sit there and pull out what seems like miles of tapeworm corpse.

Smooth talker.

[Kanchou]

In the states it is SOP to have a disclaimer in any restaurant that serves raw food (oysters, etc).

Parents should not be letting kids eat raw meat anyway. Sushi-grade raw fish, sure, but not ground meat like in yukhoe.

[nikoneko]

and don't you have to get it really well-done to kill E Coli?

Yes you do, according to the USDA at least. Link from my bible since I started to get into (real) BBQ more:
http://www.amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/meat_temperature_guide.html

edit: Didn't mean the (real) part as a slight, love my yakiniku, it's just not a pulled pork sandwich with a carolina mustard sauce.

[Ke11iente]

Parents should not be letting kids eat raw meat anyway. Sushi-grade raw fish, sure, but not ground meat like in yukhoe.

Not a parent, so I'm talking out my ass here, but yeah, I was kind of surprised that someone would let their 6 year old eat raw beef.

[matsuki]

That's pretty funny.
They talk about eating horse as if it was utterly unthinkable.

That's culture for ya!

Shit, let me segway with "real" American "culture" and say we Apache have been eating horse since it was reintroduced to the continent by the Europeans. Ride em til they can't be ridden anymore, build a fire, BBQ time!! Fast food indeed...

[omae mona]

Not a parent, so I'm talking out my ass here, but yeah, I was kind of surprised that someone would let their 6 year old eat raw beef.

If you were a parent, you'd understand that after hearing this news, we are all trying to feed our kids MORE raw beef.

[Mike Oxlong]

[SIZE="4"]Eateries disposed of meat after story broke[/SIZE]

The operator of a barbecue restaurant chain linked to a recent string of fatal food poisonings had instructed its outlets to dispose of all opened packages of raw beef immediately after the first outbreak came to light in late April, the operator said Wednesday.

As a result, no meat from such packages was found when health officials began inspecting a Yakiniku-zakaya Ebisu restaurant in Toyama Prefecture on April 27.

Health officials and police investigators were also unable to find any such meat during subsequent searches of other outlets where similar food poisoning cases later broke out.

Meanwhile, police conducted another raid the same day on Tokyo-based supplier Yamatoya Shoten, which shipped the beef in question, to investigate whether the O-111 virus blamed for the food poisonings originated from meat processing utensils or other equipment there, sources said.

Soon after health officials began inspecting the Toyama outlet, the restaurant's operator, Foods Forus Co., instructed all its outlets to refrain from selling raw beef dishes and to discard all opened packages of beef round, it said.

A Foods Forus executive said the company "meant no harm" in giving the instruction, as it thought the meat would simply rot if left opened, passing on bacteria to other foods in the eateries.

Four customers died after eating raw beef dishes at the chain, including two boys who ate at outlets in Toyama and Fukui prefectures. A genetic type of the O-111 strain of E. coli bacteria found in the two matched, indicating that the beef may have been contaminated before it was shipped to the restaurant chain.

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110512a4.html

[Samurai_Jerk]

This has been a big topic of discussion at all the horumon-yaki places in the shita-machi the last couple of months. Last year's food poisoning incident has prompted the Japanese government to ban the sale of beef-liver shashimi. From July 1st it will be a crime to sell it at restaurants with possible penalties of up to 2 years in prison or up to a 2 million yen fine. I have yet to meet one person who agrees with the ban.

I've noticed that a lot of places have also stopped selling tori-sashi even though it hasn't been banned. I guess everyone is jittery.

Japanese Source

[Iraira]

This has been a big topic of discussion at all the horumon-yaki places in the shita-machi the last couple of months. Last year's food poisoning incident has prompted the Japanese government to ban the sale of beef-liver shashimi. From July 1st it will be a crime to sell it at restaurants with possible penalties of up to 2 years in prison or up to a 2 million yen fine. I have yet to meet one person who agrees with the ban.

I've noticed that a lot of places have also stopped selling tori-sashi even though it hasn't been banned. I guess everyone is jittery.

Japanese Source

If they try to ban basashi, I will riot.