Child Abduction Issue Explodes

[matsuki]

exactly. and japan isn't the US. the term 'nothing is free' applies especially in japan. there is no bureau to go pay 15 bucks to and then sit back to watch it get enforced. you will pay someone to file something, then another someone to file something else, then pay again to have it delivered to yet one more someone else who will turn it over to the person that is supposed to pay. and on and on it will go, until it costs YOU well over what you were meant to receive in the first place.

Like I said, I am not familiar with the procedure in Japan and like so many things here, I'm sure its slow and overpriced, just saying the burden to collect being on you is not something exclusive to Japan. (but if you have deep pockets and all the motivation like this guy apparently does, he'll eventually be successful)

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Sometimes, international abduction cases have happy endings...

Source: Majirox News

[Samurai_Jerk]

Sometimes, international abduction cases have happy endings...

Source: Majirox News

How the fuck is that a happy ending? He's still married to a psycho bitch and her piece of shit parents are still a part of their lives. Plus, he had to sell his house and his business in Spain to work as a waiter in Tokyo.

[Jessy]

The US consulate might be thinking it dodged a bullet on this one. They would have been in the hot seat if Savoie had made it into the building with his kids before the police could react. I wonder what they would have done if he had asked for refuge and safe passage? The consulate may have been obliged to hand Savoie over if they judged he was guilty of an a offense but it would have been trickier to hand over the children to someone who has an arrest warrant outstanding in the US.

So, did he not have their birth certificates? Did he not have any proof they are his kids? If he is outside the door of the embassy, is that not on American soil? Technically, he has no rights to his kids in Japan? Even though he can prove he is the father? Kidnapping a minor, how can it be so, when he is actually the father? No ID for the kids? As for the passports, it would have (only) let him on the plane faster.

Why didn't he try to ferry to Korea? Get a Japanese woman or Half to sit with the kids?! Damn Impulsive. Anybody live near his jail? Wish I could go cheer him up.

[Jessy]

Or better yet, a NetJets flight out of a local airport.

NetJets...cool, not planning an abduction but interesting website, thanks.

[Jessy]

All she'd have to do is move 200 miles to Atlanta... PLENTY large Japanese community, Japanese companies, etc...

How is her English? Anyone know?

[Jessy]

In the first place, why do this gaijin father stick to his children so much?
He better make new children with a new wife.

Western Fathers actually have "real relationships with their children". Something, we like to believe that young Japanese fathers are starting to learn?! The old generation of Japanese men seem to spend their weekends sleeping and evenings at SNACK. True?

[Greji]

How the fuck is that a happy ending? He's still married to a psycho bitch and her piece of shit parents are still a part of their lives. Plus, he had to sell his house and his business in Spain to work as a waiter in Tokyo.

SJ, you just don't get it. Here this guy is given the opportunity to get rid of that pesky business and the problems of owning a house, culminating with the chance to live in the land of four seasons even though as an FG, he does not have the ability to understand it.

What more could a guy possibly hope for? Everyone knows that busting tables in Tokyo is much more appropriate for FGs. He will be so much happier than making money outside of the country...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Yeah, like the old bloke said...

[Jessy]

It does seem a bit fucked that he was arrested after "abducting" his children, even though he's a Japanese citizen so the same rules should apply to him, that apply to Noriko. From there it should just be an issue of custody in Japanese divorce court. Not an abduction issue.

I agree. Why is he in jail if when he took the kids He and Noriko were married under Japanese law?!?

[Jessy]

Yeah, real complicated case.

I'm still wondering about this Noriko nutjob. So, reports say she wanted a divorce before they moved to the US, but hubby refused. Why then, didn't she march on down to city hall and start paperwork on a contested divorce? She could have done that, and then he wouldn't have been able to move to the US with the kids in the first place. Could it be she was hoping to win a million bucks in the American-style divorce lotto, and then transfer the cash back to Japan before abducting her kids and getting the hell outta Dodge...? Her story doesn't add up any better than his.

Good point

[BigInJapan]

[cstaylor]

How the fuck is that a happy ending? He's still married to a psycho bitch and her piece of shit parents are still a part of their lives. Plus, he had to sell his house and his business in Spain to work as a waiter in Tokyo.

Seconded.

[Doctor Stop]

How the fuck is that a happy ending?

And who names their kid after a car?

[Bucky]

[Mulboyne]

[Bucky]

Looks like the shoe is on the other foot in this case:

MOUNT CLEMENS, Mich. (WXYZ) - Nine years ago, Carl Mueller met a Japanese woman named Mayumi online. Six months later, they were married.

They lived in Japan and had a son.

Now, their 8-year-old boy, a Japanese citizen, is at the center of an international custody battle.

"If she's able to take him back. I don't think I'll see him again because of the law in Japan and the typical attitude," says Carl Mueller.

The Mueller's are still married, but Carl Mueller says for a number of reasons, he decided to leave Japan with their son.
Thursday morning, deputies showed up at Carl Mueller's St. Clair Shores home where he and his son have been staying since March.

They were all brought to a Mt. Clemens courtroom for a hearing because Mayumi Mueller recently flew here with a temporary custody order she got from a court in Japan.

According to her attorney, Mayumi Mueller hasn't seen her son since January 21. The court hearing was the first time they saw each other again.

Mayumi Mueller's attorney says Carl Mueller abducted the couple's child, but he insists he told her they were leaving.

When asked if he had any plans to return to Japan with their son, Carl Mueller said he tried to communicate with his wife, but she never responded.

Thursday's hearing was adjourned since Carl Mueller's attorney wasn't present for the hearing. It has been rescheduled for July 11.

For now, the 8-year-old boy will remain at his paternal grandparents home in St. Clair Shores, but a visitation schedule has been set up so his mother can also see him while she's in town from Japan.

[Taro Toporific]

In Niigata, Japan there is a young Mexican American man in prison. He is accused of kidnapping his daughter and he has been in jail since November. He is now in prison awaiting trial. Yesterday he had an arraignment in Niigata court.

There's a new link on this case on Debito.

Man who forcibly tried to spirit kids from wife gets suspended term
Japan Times (Kyodo) | Thursday, July 7, 2011
Niigata -- A Mexican man was found guilty and given a suspended jail term Tuesday for forcibly taking his daughter from his separated Japanese wife last November by breaking into her home in Niigata and injuring her mother, who had tried to stop him.
The Niigata District Court sentenced Nathanael Teutle Retamoza, 33, to two years in prison, suspended for four years, for his attempt to take the 1-year-old girl to the United States. The ruling comes at a time when the government is preparing legislation to help settle international child custody disputes.
The ruling said it was "selfish" for Retamoza to act on his urge to see his daughter, from whom he had been separated for two months...more...

[matsuki]

Wow, that really sucks. These fathers need to be a lil more crafty in getting their children. That Carl Mueller guy above seemed to pull it off smoothly and now gets to play the legal game on his home turf.

[Mock Cockpit]

Wow, that really sucks. These fathers need to be a lil more crafty in getting their children. That Carl Mueller guy above seemed to pull it off smoothly and now gets to play the legal game on his home turf.

The door has always swung both ways. I think if this Mueller chap took off with his kid without his wife's permission then he just as much of a scumbag as all those parents who have taken their kids back to Japan.

[matsuki]

The door has always swung both ways.

I'd describe that door as a dog door that only swings one way...

I think if this Mueller chap took off with his kid without his wife's permission then he just as much of a scumbag as all those parents who have taken their kids back to Japan.

He could be a total scumbag being a petty turd, none of us know what he was thinking and his real motive...BUT from his comments, sounds like he didn't want to be just another victim of the Japanese courts when it comes to child custody. There is zero doubt regarding the uneven playing field there, even more so if you're a FG. Even if he was awarded visitation rights, we all know how those go unenforced here. If that's the case, I don't see how anyone can blame him for ensuring his upcoming custody battle takes place in the U.S. and not in Japan.

[Mock Cockpit]

I'd describe that door as a dog door that only swings one way...



He could be a total scumbag being a petty turd, none of us know what he was thinking and his real motive...BUT from his comments, sounds like he didn't want to be just another victim of the Japanese courts when it comes to child custody. There is zero doubt regarding the uneven playing field there, even more so if you're a FG. Even if he was awarded visitation rights, we all know how those go unenforced here. If that's the case, I don't see how anyone can blame him for ensuring his upcoming custody battle takes place in the U.S. and not in Japan.

Morally vacant. The same self serving justifications the Japanese use.

[Mike Oxlong]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

The Pinkerton Rule is a great argument, except for one fundamental flaw...extradition requires offenses to be crimes in both countries that are party to the treaty for it to be applied for. It cannot be applied in the Japan-U.S. Treaty of Extradition.

[matsuki]

Morally vacant. The same self serving justifications the Japanese use.

Ehhh, forcing her to deal on a level playing field is "morally vacant?" It's not like having the legal battle in the US is an automatic win for him so no, it's not the same.

[maraboutslim]

The Japanese government should just issue a reminder to all gaijin marrying Japanese citizens that states, "The Japanese government will always protect their citizen's right to maintain custody of their children. If you don't like that, don't have children with a Japanese citizen, or if you do have children, don't behave in such a manner that said Japanese citizen will want to keep you away from the children."

Surely such a position is within the rights of a sovereign nation, no? I believe it is and nothing in this thread has made me any more sympathetic to the notion that another nation's laws or court decisions should be able to override Japan's.

[matsuki]

The Japanese government should just issue a reminder to all gaijin marrying Japanese citizens that states, "The Japanese government will always protect their citizen's right to maintain custody of their children. If you don't like that, don't have children with a Japanese citizen, or if you do have children, don't behave in such a manner that said Japanese citizen will want to keep you away from the children."

Surely such a position is within the rights of a sovereign nation, no? I believe it is

Sure, if they want to alienate themselves from the international community (more than they already have) I guess at least that way, other countries could create laws to counteract that stance.

nothing in this thread has made me any more sympathetic to the notion that another nation's laws or court decisions should be able to override Japan's.

So you believe Japan's laws override other countries laws, regardless of previous country of residence and court decisions? You think it's ok that any parent can just steal away their children to safe harbor in Japan, regardless of previous custody agreements?

If anything, there needs to be an international judicial organization that settles these kinds of disputes but the problem then, in countries like Japan, the law is very rarely, and selectively enforced.

[maraboutslim]

So you believe Japan's laws override other countries laws, regardless of previous country of residence and court decisions? You think it's ok that any parent can just steal away their children to safe harbor in Japan, regardless of previous custody agreements?

I didn't say I think it's "ok". It's typically best for a child to be raised by both parents. But I will say that I certainly don't find this parental "child abduction," issue to be one for courts or governments to get involved in at all, much less for a decision made in one country to influence another country's opinion on the matter or spur them to any sort of action.

If anything, there needs to be an international judicial organization that settles these kinds of disputes but the problem then, in countries like Japan, the law is very rarely, and selectively enforced.

Why? Just because people from two countries decide to breed, we need some sort of international judicial organization to manage their relationship? Or, as others have proposed, some sort of additional red tape at the airports or passport agencies? Ridiculous. Make these international couples take care of their own lives!

[james]

The Japanese government should just issue a reminder to all gaijin marrying Japanese citizens that states, "The Japanese government will always protect their citizen's right to maintain custody of their children. If you don't like that, don't have children with a Japanese citizen, or if you do have children, don't behave in such a manner that said Japanese citizen will want to keep you away from the children."

are you serious or trolling? if you're at all familiar with the issue, you should know that this is complete b.s. many of these abduction cases involve a japanese national, more often than not the mother, who illegally takes the children out of a country against a court custody order, (be it joint or even sole) to japan, where, once having gotten there, becomes unfindable and untouchable. you're seriously ok with this?

now let's look at another typical scenario: parents are both residing in japan, japanese spouse takes off with the kids, foreign spouse is stonewalled by the in-laws, police and courts, often being treated like a criminal and interrogated at so-called mediation. another case of guilty until proven foreign. japan has no joint custody, basically never grants custody to the foreign spouse and visitation rights are not enforced. when visitation does occur, it's monitored, has to be conducted in japanese (i could be mistaken on this point) and typically the time alloted is a pittance.

iirc, there have even been cases with custody being awarded to the grandparents in lieu of the foreign spouse in the rare case the j-national is by some means incapacitated.

as for "don't behave in such a manner that said Japanese citizen will want to keep you away from the children.", are you aware that the j-spouse will often trump up false charges of misconduct, domestic violence etc and the j-stone coppers go along with it complicitly with nary a fact-finding?

Surely such a position is within the rights of a sovereign nation, no?

a soverign nation with its head still up its arse and that doesn't cry foul until one of its own are affected. a sovereign nation that continues to apply double-standards to the point where it has garnered a reputation internationally as being a haven for abductors.

[maraboutslim]

are you serious or trolling? if you're at all familiar with the issue, you should know that this is complete b.s. many of these abduction cases involve a japanese national, more often than not the mother, who illegally takes the children out of a country against a court custody order, (be it joint or even sole) to japan, where, once having gotten there, becomes unfindable and untouchable. you're seriously ok with this?

"Illegally" according to whom? Does the United States court really have sole jurisdiction over where and with whom a Japanese national (child) must live? Why do you believe so?

Now, if the child is not a Japanese national, then I'm more sympathetic to the idea that this is a illegal abduction or whatever you want to call it. I still prefer it be a personal family matter and not a legal one, but at least I'm somewhat more interested in the legal debate. But if the child is a Japanese national (even if also a US national), then I don't see any reason to give the US courts any more say in the child's life than the Japanese courts, and thus it's best to just leave the courts out of it!

now let's look at another typical scenario: parents are both residing in japan, japanese spouse takes off with the kids, foreign spouse is stonewalled by the in-laws, police and courts, often being treated like a criminal and interrogated at so-called mediation. (and) are you aware that the j-spouse will often trump up false charges of misconduct, domestic violence etc and the j-stone coppers go along with it complicitly with nary a fact-finding?

Now, why would the Japanese spouse and their family do this? How often do you think this happens to a husband that doesn't deserve it? Why would any mother or grandparent seek to keep a child away from his father if said father was actually a great human being and attentive, caring father/husband? It's got to be so immensely rare and therefore certainly not something to create laws about, especially laws that might negatively impact the lives of the rest of us who prefer to, and can, handle our personal family relationships without government intervention!