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Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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Postby Ganma » Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:31 pm

james wrote:an interesting read, in any case. there's a lot of hate on china in this thread, but we tend to forget just how comfortable we are at times. i'm not saying that what they're doing is right or that there aren't issues re ip infringement, ethics and environmental degradation but it's easy for us to sit here and judge them by our standards when we've had a 50 year head start. they're a nation of over a billion people trying to achieve a quality of life that we take for granted. as mentioned in another post, they're not the first nation to follow this path nor will they be the last.

That's not what the hate is about. It's about the arrogance and corruption -companies, government and individuals with zero ethics who will stop at nothing to make a buck even if that means the death of their own people as in the case of this rail accident. The people involved in making this fault-ridden technology don't give a shit about China's quality of life, they only care about their own pockets.
This story reminds me of The Towering Inferno.
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:11 pm

Ganma wrote:That's not what the hate is about. It's about the arrogance and corruption -companies, government and individuals with zero ethics who will stop at nothing to make a buck even if that means the death of their own people as in the case of this rail accident. The people involved in making this fault-ridden technology don't give a shit about China's quality of life, they only care about their own pockets.
This story reminds me of The Towering Inferno.

Silly me ... I thought you were talking about TEPCO there for a minute.
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Postby james » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:39 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:Made in China Takes on a Whole New Meaning
Thanks, James. Your link had the mobile tags on the front and back end and doesn't work on full size browsers.


inertia had me gravity bound to the sofa for a good part of the morning so i was too lazy to grab the pc version. it seems to open up in ffox okay on the pc but thanks for the better link.
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Postby james » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:13 pm

"Cause I'm stranded all alone, in the gas station of love, and I have to use the self-service pumps.."

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Postby Ganma » Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:48 pm

Yokohammer wrote:Silly me ... I thought you were talking about TEPCO there for a minute.

Ha,ha. Touché.
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Postby Jack » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:13 am

james wrote:i don't see how that isn't moving up the value tier. i'd hazard a guess that even in china, an engineer is doing more than just "putting gadget A in slot B". sure, it's one example and a canadian technology, but i think it's naieve to assume that china will be content to continue doing little more than producing cheap plastic trinkets. to remain competitive they need to move up the chain. they know this and they are well aware that other countries with lower labour costs attract companies that produce products that don't require skilled labour.
.


Unless you own the technology you are not moving up the value chain. Remember the reporter in this case is exaggerating to make an argument out of thin air. So he claims that 25% of workers are engineers, a bit word for sure, but let's define an "engineeer". It is not what you think it is in the West. Let me explain: a couple of years ago I visited a Western train manufacturing company with a plant in China. In response to a question about China's ability to reverser engineer a product to figure out the technology, the guy said that all the engineering calculations are kept at the company's head office in trhe West. He said the engineers here will tell workers (for example) to cut the metal sheets 180 mm by 230 mm but they don't know why those dimensions. That calculation is not shared with them.

When your only advantage is cheap labour you are not moving up the value chain. Over time they may figure things out and produce more local technology, but their culture of cutting corners will not disappear and no one will buy a made-in China X-ray machine. Celestica's products have an international brand name like IBM, GE or Teledyne lending credibility, but try selling "Wei Hua" brand jet engines to the world. This ain't gonna happen in my lifetime.
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Postby Mulboyne » Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:31 pm

Good coverage and links of the recent accident over on China Geeks.
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:10 pm

I figured it was just a matter of time but I didn't think the amount of time would be quite this short, even with Chinese "quality".

Next question is when will the next accident happen? Before the end of 2012 I'd say, if not much sooner.
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Postby james » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:32 am

FG Lurker wrote:I didn't think the amount of time would be quite this short, even with Chinese "quality".

Next question is when will the next accident happen? Before the end of 2012 I'd say, if not much sooner.


the talking heads on one of the news channels were discussing it earlier tonight and one of their correspondents actually got on the damn thing to interview what few passengers were on it. the poor guy, who probably lost some big janken match, looked visibly nervous as he boarded. one of the shots out the window was of the location where it occurred, concrete all smashed to bits (high quality stuff, properly reinforced, no doubt).

there are a lot of indignant chinese posting online about it, saying the world is laughing at them and being dubious of the various "explanations" for the cause that have been put forth, the most prominent being a lightning strike, apparently.
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Postby Ganma » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:24 am

james wrote:there are a lot of indignant chinese posting online about it, saying the world is laughing at them and being dubious of the various "explanations" for the cause that have been put forth, the most prominent being a lightning strike, apparently.

If China (the government) is not careful they could have an uprising on their hands. Unlike the Japanese, when the Chinese get angry they're not afraid to stand up and do something about it.
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Postby Kuang_Grade » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:17 am

Ganma wrote:If China (the government) is not careful they could have an uprising on their hands. Unlike the Japanese, when the Chinese get angry they're not afraid to stand up and do something about it.

But then again, the Chinese government, unlike Japan's, isn't averse to sending in tanks or trumping up charges and sentencing folks to jail for years at a time when they complain too much/too openly. They'll tolerate some limited open dissent when it suits them or if things are really bad (such as local corruption that gets completely out of hand), but after a certain point, they'll bring in hard cases from another region of the country and shut down any dissent in a very hard and clear manner..

I'm sure the Chinese government will find some suitably small and insignificant firm to blame for taking short cuts and arrest some folks....if they are feeling esp. vindicitive, they'll probably execute some folks like they did with the tainted milk scandal a few years back.
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Postby Ganma » Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:28 am

Kuang_Grade wrote:I'm sure the Chinese government will find some suitably small and insignificant firm to blame for taking short cuts and arrest some folks....if they are feeling esp. vindicitive, they'll probably execute some folks like they did with the milk tainting scandal a few years back.

Sounds very plausible. God knows how they are going to 'fix' this problem though. It would cost millions. It's not going to go away so easily as the tainted milk did.
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Postby matsuki » Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:34 am

Ganma wrote:Sounds very plausible. God knows how they are going to 'fix' this problem though. It would cost millions. It's not going to go away so easily as the tainted milk did.


Indeed

Those overseas sales of this "Chinese Technology" are probably gone as well :D

They can't possibly have believed China is a safety country

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Postby Hikonejou » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:37 am

China Safe?

Well, I'm sure that Junky Ass "Superior Bullet Train" and those Ghetto Ass Project Towers come with a 1 Year Manufacture Warranty...

Not to worry, I hear China has a Rocket and an Aircraft Carrier in the mix...

Oh, did I mention? Chinese Gioza is #1...depeding if you like eating CARDBOARD!
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Postby IparryU » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:53 am

Hikonejou wrote:Oh, did I mention? Chinese Gioza is #1...depeding if you like eating CARDBOARD!
fuggin nasty:puke:
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Postby matsuki » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:56 am

China always spouting off about how they're coming up and all great...but they're just like billions of lobsters in a big ass bucket.
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Postby Ganma » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:59 pm

Kuang_Grade wrote:I'm sure the Chinese government will find some suitably small and insignificant firm to blame for taking short cuts and arrest some folks....if they are feeling esp. vindicitive, they'll probably execute some folks like they did with the tainted milk scandal a few years back.

Just as you said:
[SIZE="3"]Wen vows severe punishment to those responsible[/SIZE]
WENZHOU, Zhejiang - Premier Wen Jiabao vowed on Thursday to severely punish any corrupt individuals found responsible for Saturday's high-speed train crash that killed at least 39 people and triggered public fury.
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Postby JAVGOD » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:30 pm

Chinese can suck it...:p :p :p
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Postby Russell » Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:37 pm

Ganma wrote:Just as you said:
[SIZE="3"]Wen vows severe punishment to those responsible[/SIZE]

What will be the punishment? A free 1-month pass to commute by their Shinkansen? :spin:
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Postby matsuki » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:36 pm

JAVGOD wrote:Chinese can suck it...:p :p :p


They do....and on the cheap. Just ask Jack ;)
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We Chinese....I mean Swedish

Postby Iraira » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:31 am

KUNMING, China — Nestled in a sleepy southern district of Kunming city in southwest China, is a 10,000 square meter, four-story building that could make Swedish furniture giant Ikea uneasy.

11 Furniture, as the store is known, copies Ikea's blue and yellow color scheme, mock-up rooms, miniature pencils, signage and even its rocking chair designs. Its cafeteria-style restaurant, complete with minimalist wooden tables, has a familiar look, although the menu features Chinese-style braised minced pork and eggs instead of Ikea's Swedish meatballs and salmon.

This knock-off Ikea store is emblematic of a new wave of piracy sweeping through China. Increasingly sophisticated counterfeiters no longer just pump out fake luxury handbags, DVDs and sports shoes but replicate the look, feel and service of successful Western retail concepts -- in essence, pirating the entire brand experience.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43970141/ns/business-world_business/

at least they don't serve the meatballs.
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"concerned about my new sneakers"

Postby Taro Toporific » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:41 am

Ganma wrote:[SIZE="3"]Wen vows severe punishment to those responsible[/SIZE]



Blow-by-blow account of how China buried the train
Asahi.com | 2011/08/02 by Atsushi Okudera, correspondent
WENZHOU, China--Reaching the site of a serious accident in China for a reporter is like running an obstacle course.
There may be no airline flights for quick and easy access, so reporters often have to take buses that run behind schedule, chart routes on roads on maps that often do not exist and run a gantlet of police checkpoints.
Reporters are tested on how quickly they can overcome unexpected obstacles and still cover the story.
I had to pass through such obstacles before I eventually reached the site where the driver's compartment of the destroyed front car of the bullet train involved in the July 23 high-speed train crash in Wenzhou, Zhejiang province, was buried...
...I was able to pass the first checkpoint. The high-speed railway track came into sight, but walking was not easy due to the muddy road from the heavy rain. I was a bit concerned about my new sneakers...
...At around 7:30 a.m., an excavator, which had been digging, moved to the front car of the D301 train and began destroying it, swinging its boom wildly.
The movements of the excavator became more and more violent. Its bucket violently pushed the train car's body, and it started dragging the front train car...
...Curious, I took a good look at the site, and saw the front car had been pushed into a hole. I finally realized that the hole they were digging was to bury the front car...
More...
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:54 am

Taro Toporific wrote:Blow-by-blow account of how China buried the train
Asahi.com | 2011/08/02 by Atsushi Okudera, correspondent
WENZHOU, China--Reaching the site of a serious accident in China for a reporter is like running an obstacle course.
There may be no airline flights for quick and easy access, so reporters often have to take buses that run behind schedule, chart routes on roads on maps that often do not exist and run a gantlet of police checkpoints.
Reporters are tested on how quickly they can overcome unexpected obstacles and still cover the story.
I had to pass through such obstacles before I eventually reached the site where the driver's compartment of the destroyed front car of the bullet train involved in the July 23 high-speed train crash in Wenzhou, Zhejiang province, was buried...
...I was able to pass the first checkpoint. The high-speed railway track came into sight, but walking was not easy due to the muddy road from the heavy rain. I was a bit concerned about my new sneakers...
...At around 7:30 a.m., an excavator, which had been digging, moved to the front car of the D301 train and began destroying it, swinging its boom wildly.
The movements of the excavator became more and more violent. Its bucket violently pushed the train car's body, and it started dragging the front train car...
...Curious, I took a good look at the site, and saw the front car had been pushed into a hole. I finally realized that the hole they were digging was to bury the front car...
More...


All my J-coworkers were laughing about this when I got to the office this morning. I love the fact that the Chinese are so blatantly corrupt and scummy.
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Postby matsuki » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:31 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:All my J-coworkers were laughing about this when I got to the office this morning. I love the fact that the Chinese are so blatantly corrupt and scummy.


Problem is, the J-government is doing pretty much the same thing with it's handling of the Nuclear problem and TEPCO. All the J-people round me are laughing at this China debacle "never in Japan" comes up alot but when I point out how the government here is handling the Fukushima crisis, they get really quiet.
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Postby Ganma » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:51 pm

chokonen888 wrote:Problem is, the J-government is doing pretty much the same thing with it's handling of the Nuclear problem and TEPCO. All the J-people round me are laughing at this China debacle "never in Japan" comes up alot but when I point out how the government here is handling the Fukushima crisis, they get really quiet.

I can't believe no comparisons have been made in the media (to my knowledge anyway) Reports of suspicions against the J government and TEPCO are rife, yet China is on a whole other level??? I guess they're too embarrassed to admit the two governments are so alike. Ah, the hypocricy. :wall:
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Postby Hikonejou » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:04 pm

Yea, but you can't compare Fukushima Daiichi disaster to the Chinese "Shit"kansen disaster.

The Fukushima Daiichi disaster was actually caused by a Natural Disaster.

The sneaky little Chinese (at first) Lied about their disaster, by stating that their so called "Bullet Train of Superior Technology" was "Hit by Lightning".

Nobody around the World or in China believed their Bullshit Story, and when People started going Crazy in China, the Chinese Government finally caved-in, pointed some fingers, and finally confessed the Truth: Faulty Equipment and Operator Error.

The Fukushima Daiichi disaster was caused by Horrible Earthquake and a Raging Tsunami.

Furthermore, the Fukushima Daiichi survived the Earthquake...it was the Tsunami that destroyed the reactors.

I don't agree with the Japanese Government or TEPCO. I think they should've buried Fukushima Daiichi a long time ago before half of the Country got Radiated, but they believe it's salvageable and worth saving (despite the popular objections).
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Postby matsuki » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:11 pm

Hiko - There are all kinds of theories over what caused the shit to boil at Fukushima...the earthquake or the Tsunami...but either way, just like the Chinese Bull[s]et[/s]shit train, it's the result of corruption and could have been avoided. The coverup and BS handling of both disasters is just exposing how corrupt each gov. really is.
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Postby Ganma » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:08 pm

Hikonejou wrote:Yea, but you can't compare Fukushima Daiichi disaster to the Chinese "Shit"kansen disaster.

The Fukushima Daiichi disaster was actually caused by a Natural Disaster.

True but not quite that simple. There had been ongoing problems with the plant for years starting with the fact that TEPCO covered up a fault in at least one of the reactors construction from day one. Human 'error' and corruption played a huge part in the Fukushima disaster. All said and done, it's the same kind of evil.
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Postby Hikonejou » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:01 pm

Ganma wrote:True but not quite that simple. There had been ongoing problems with the plant for years starting with the fact that TEPCO covered up a fault in at least one of the reactors construction from day one. Human 'error' and corruption played a huge part in the Fukushima disaster. All said and done, it's the same kind of evil.


I have been told that many Japanese believe that the United States forced Japan to start using Nuclear Technology sometime after WWII during the Occupation/Rebuilding of Japan. If that belief is true, than I really can't hold Japan too accountable for this disaster...
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Postby Ganma » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:16 pm

Hikonejou wrote:I have been told that many Japanese believe that the United States forced Japan to start using Nuclear Technology sometime after WWII during the Occupation/Rebuilding of Japan. If that belief is true, than I really can't hold Japan too accountable for this disaster...

Yes. I've also heard some Japanese trying to blame America. But the fact is TEPCO is not run by Americans. The corruption and corner cutting is 100% Japanese. They can't wiggle their way out of this one by finger pointing.
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