Website tracking Radiation Data from Multiple Sources

[Bucky]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Safecast story

[Bucky]

Safecast story

Nice find, Hair.

[wagyl]

LOVE the beautiful coloured dots.
DAMNED if I can find a legend to explain what the dots actually mean.

[Coligny]

LOVE the beautiful coloured dots.
DAMNED if I can find a legend to explain what the dots actually mean.

Clic on the dots genius...

[wagyl]

Clic on the dots genius...

OK. Got that.

You see, that is the interesting thing. I get enough valuable information from your posts to enjoy going to the effort to de-mangle your English. I don't get enough valuable information from that site to work out if I should start panicking when I go from a scarlet dot to a crimson one.

[Coligny]

Are you hitting on me ?

[GomiGirl]

I heard these guys speak last night at an event. They are doing some awesome stuff and really cutting through the hype and explaining what everything means in real terms for real people living in Japan.

They are not apologists by any means but they also think there is alot of unnecessary scare mongering going on.... (yes I am looking at you TokyoJoe)

It is a really interesting collective and they plan to keep monitoring and providing the data via CC0 public domain so that everybody can get some unbiased information.

http://www.safecast.org

[matsuki]

there is alot of unnecessary scare mongering going on.... (yes I am looking at you TokyoJoe)

Don't worry GG, noone is scaref of Tokyo Joe

[Coligny]

[quote="chokonen888"]Don't worry GG, noone is scaref of Tokyo Joe ]

thinking aboot the boner he got from her acknowledging his toxic existence IS scary...

[Typhoon]

Consumer Warning: Geiger Counters / Dosimeters That Do Not Work

[YT]za313CuR3WE[/YT]

Accurately measuring radioactivity is a science.

[Coligny]

Consumer Warning: Geiger Counters / Dosimeters That Do Not Work

Accurately measuring radioactivity is a science.

Be honest once in your speech, you write science when you mean arcane...

Science can be learned, while an arcane is inaccessible to the common mortal... and that's basically what you are systematically implying from the start... we are just to fucking stoopid to figure out how to use a geiger counter...
And anyway radioactivity is good harmless and naturally occuring... even the massive cesium 137 release...

[Typhoon]

Be honest once in your speech, you write science when you mean arcane...

Science can be learned, while an arcane is inaccessible to the common mortal... and that's basically what you are systematically implying from the start... we are just to fucking stoopid to figure out how to use a geiger counter...
And anyway radioactivity is good harmless and naturally occuring... even the massive cesium 137 release...

F*cking numbers. How do they work?

[Yokohammer]

Consumer Warning: Geiger Counters / Dosimeters That Do Not Work

Accurately measuring radioactivity is a science.

All Chinese, according to the clip. Probably all whipped up in a hurry to take advantage of the recent demand.

This is more about spending the time to do the research and choose a dependable product from an established manufacturer. It doesn't really support your statement that "accurately measuring radioactivity is a science."

A normally intelligent person with a dependable device can measure ambient radiation quite easily. And so they should if concerned. You should stop trying to make it sound like it requires a Ph.D. in nuclear physics or something.

[Typhoon]

All Chinese, according to the clip. Probably all whipped up in a hurry to take advantage of the recent demand.

This is more about spending the time to do the research and choose a dependable product from an established manufacturer. It doesn't really support your statement that "accurately measuring radioactivity is a science."

A normally intelligent person with a dependable device can measure ambient radiation quite easily. And so they should if concerned. You should stop trying to make it sound like it requires a Ph.D. in nuclear physics or something.

My point was that if a geiger counter does not give a correct reading, it doesn't matter how smart, or not, as the case may be, the user is.

An uncalibrated geiger counter is useless: Geiger Counter Sanity Check for measuring radioactivity levels.

[Yokohammer]

My point was that if a geiger counter does not give a correct reading, it doesn't matter how smart, or not, as the case may be, the user is.

An uncalibrated geiger counter is useless: Geiger Counter Sanity Check for measuring radioactivity levels.

Yeah, you've posted that link before. The guy who also sells kirlian photography equipment. Very scientific. Personally I wouldn't bet my life on the accuracy of any geiger counter "kit." Too many opportunities for fuggups due to bad construction.

My point is that you posted a video clip that states that a group of inexpensive Chinese-made geiger counters were tested and did not give accurate measurements, and then used that clip to back up your statement that (once again for good measure): "accurately measuring radioactivity is a science."

No, what the clip means is that accurate radiation measurements can only be made with devices that are capable of making accurate measurements.

There's a pretty high "duh" factor there.

As implied in your reply, even a qualified nuclear engineer won't be able to make accurate measurements with an inaccurate device. That should be quite obvious.

My main objection is that you have repeatedly implied that making accurate radiation measurements requires scientific credentials of some sort, and I feel that's unfair to people who want to have a go at it themselves. Why would you want to discourage people from making their own measurements when they can, and when doing so can provide them with information that might be important for them and their families? Would you rather they rely on "official" measurements made by some bloke at the local town hall several kilometers or even tens of kilometers away?

Please, give people a bit more credit for their intelligence.

I can assure you that the official readings can be severely biased. Here are a couple of examples from my own experience:

The "official" readings in my area had dropped to around 0.08 µ]2.5 meters above a concrete sidewalk[/b] in the middle of town. 2.5 meters? Who the fuck walks around 2.5 meters off the ground? When this came to light they started measuring at a more reasonable height of 1 meter, and the measured values instantly doubled to around 0.16 µSv/h.

Got that? The experts were producing measurements that were seriously flawed from a practical standpoint.

But that's not the end of it. I live in a primarily agricultural area that is probably 80~90% soil and vegetation. Cesium is easily blown or washed off concrete surfaces but binds to soil. My own measurements (with an accurate device) above soil at various locations around the area result in readings of around 0.22~0.23 µSv/h. That is closer to reality, and a much more meaningful result for people who actually live around here.

Accurate measurements require a) accurate equipment, and b) that those measurements are made properly. But the (b) part is really quite easy as long as the (a) part is taken care of. A guy holding an accurate geiger counter approximately stationary at approximately waist height, for example, is going to come up with a reading that is plenty accurate and meaningful enough for his needs. If there's a chance that the device itself might be contaminated (by being dropped onto contaminated soil, for example), wrap it in a plastic bag.

Why keep implying that it's beyond the capabilities of the average person who really needs to know?

That's just not fair.

[Typhoon]

tl;dr

[Coligny]

[quote="Typhoon"]tl]
Your only argument is that we can't understand anything... guess what:


Since you have nothing to add to the debate except arrogance mixed with unawarness, you don't like what you are reading and prefer to lecture... oups... strike that... endoctrinate (lecturing would involve knowledge from you part instead of blind beliefs) sooo I suggest that your pompous asswipe check his watch... and looky... it' time to go fuck yourself...

[Yokohammer]

[quote="Typhoon"]tl]
Typhoon, I don't believe I showed any disrespect towards you.

I went out of my way to present facts and a logical argument to explain the reason I disagree with your position.

Your flippant "tl;dr" (too long; didn't read) response, however, is just the equivalent of covering your ears and singing loudly while I'm trying to present my argument.

If you're not prepared to hear my side as well, then I simply won't bother anymore.

[GomiGirl]

The "official" readings in my area had dropped to around 0.08 µ]2.5 meters above a concrete sidewalk[/b] in the middle of town. 2.5 meters? Who the fuck walks around 2.5 meters off the ground? When this came to light they started measuring at a more reasonable height of 1 meter, and the measured values instantly doubled to around 0.16 µSv/h.

I am going to try to give you the answer as it was explained during a seminar that I went to last week. The seminar was given by Safecast and so it is up to you whether you find the source credible. Now I am not an expert and I can't give any credence to this, other than it sounds plausible.

The reason the measurements are being taken at 2.5 m is so that they are trying to get a reading of the current situation and to see if there are any changes ie if there is more venting from Fukushima.

Any measurements taken at ground level are showing contamination from previous ventings mostly from just after the explosions in March.

What happens when radioactive material is vented is that the plume spreads and then drops to the ground. It then bonds with what ever it has landed on, concrete, metal etc. That surface can now be considered contaminated. What to do with these contaminated sites is still under discussion.

Tests have shown that there is no further spread of the contamination onto shoes or clothing if you happen to walk on a surface that has radioactive material bonded to it. The only way to remove this is to scrape off the top layers or to demolish rebuild. Soil is a different matter and there is some talk of growing sunflowers as they bind the radioactive material and effectively "remove" from the soil.

But both of these scenarios don't solve the problem of what to do with the contaminated material once it has been "cleaned". ie you can't bury the sunflowers and you can't bury the concrete dust. So no decision has been made yet as to what will be done with the prior contamination. (ie the contamination of the streets outside your houses!! But as I said, it has been shown that if you are walking then you are only "exposed" while you are walking on the surface but that you are not taking it home with you on your shoes.)

Now back to the readings at 2.5 m. Anything lower to the ground than that will only show the existing radiation that is bonded to the surface and that apparently is already documented. What officials are trying to find out now is to ensure there is no additional radiation leaks from Fukushima to ensure that it is contained during the cleanup.

I don't want anybody to read any value judgements from the above. I am just trying to pass on what was said at the seminar. There was lots of other things mentioned such as hotspots and also how to decontaminate your home. As I said, I am not an expert nor am I an apologist for any side, I am just a resident trying to make sense of everything and educate myself about what is best to do for my family.

[Yokohammer]

I am going to try to give you the answer as it was explained during a seminar that I went to last week. The seminar was given by Safecast and so it is up to you whether you find the source credible. Now I am not an expert and I can't give any credence to this, other than it sounds plausible.

... snipped ...

I don't want anybody to read any value judgements from the above. I am just trying to pass on what was said at the seminar. There was lots of other things mentioned such as hotspots and also how to decontaminate your home. As I said, I am not an expert nor am I an apologist for any side, I am just a resident trying to make sense of everything and educate myself about what is best to do for my family.

GG, understood, and mostly accurate as far as I can tell.

But ... what is of immediate importance to people living in contaminated areas is the current radiation level as a result of any and all prior explosions, ventings, and whatever other fuggups have occurred thus far. It's also nice to know the radiation level at where they spend most of their day, which is usually a bit lower than 2.5 meters off the ground.

The authorities can measure radiation at any height they like in order to glean whatever information they need. That is not a problem. The problem is when that information is presented to the people as representative of the "current radiation level" without specifying the details. That's when it becomes a bit bogus, and is why they had to change their methods where I'm at when those details came to light.

It's really easy to present false or misleading information without actually lying outright, and quite a lot of that has been going on. In such cases it's always hard to determine whether the deception is deliberate or simply due to wrong assumptions about how much people understand about this stuff.

That's why I advocate that people in potentially dangerous or even just worrying situations learn as much as they can and gather as much information from as many sources as possible (including making their own measurements where feasible). Or delegate someone they trust in the community to do so.