Child Abduction Issue Explodes

[Coligny]

Let me know if you hear that's happening. I got a bunch of them that they can take.....

Me bit.... hemmm... Julie... want's the stud playing baseball...
(didun't show picshure of th3 father to try to keep ma job a bit longer...)

[IparryU]

Me bit.... hemmm... Julie... want's the stud playing baseball...
(didun't show picshure of th3 father to try to keep ma job a bit longer...)

my wify said the same... keep may be a good idea so i can jailbreak and keep my kidds.

i was at the park with a US embassy guy who was monitoring the hauge convention and he had some positive remarks about it.

apparently, japan is making some serious moves towards applying the hauge convention in Japan (no just signing it to make everyone happy). Japan is asking other asian nations who have signed to look at their policies to see if it is similar to theirs as their previous laws (and "culture") is more similar than western cuntries.

he also said that Japan will be handing over the wanted* parties who fled to japan. but that would also include any thrid party who assisted them with the abduction (baachan, Japanese Embassy in the US, etc.)

One negative comment he said was that there will be a large amount of people claiming abuse and Japan will ask for an investigation, but will get the cold shoulder from the other government... this will keep the kids in "safe haven" status for several years and most likely never get executed...

i take those words with a large salt shaker at hand... but still better news than none...

*those who had gone to court and broken the orders that were issued to them

[matsuki]

One negative comment he said was that there will be a large amount of people claiming abuse and Japan will ask for an investigation, but will get the cold shoulder from the other government... this will keep the kids in "safe haven" status for several years and most likely never get executed...

Anyone can claim abuse but isn't the burden on them to prove it? Nowadays, what Keitai out there doesn't have a camera or a mic? For older cases, it may not be so cut and dry but I can already picture the court questioning:

So he abused you?

[color="Magenta"]Yes, many times. He was violent, gambling, and a drunkard![/color]

You reported the abuse to the authorities, right?

[color="Magenta"]No, WE JAPANESE have a culture that doesn't involve outside authorities in family matters.[/color]

Do you have any pictures, videos, or other evidence of the abuse?
[color="Magenta"]
No, I was scared for my life! [breaks down in tears] I don't want anything to remember those times...[/color]

[turns to the father, his family, etc.]

Did she ever show any signs of abuse, trauma, etc?

[color="SeaGreen"]Nope, everything seemed fine and then one day we came home and she was just gone and so were the kids.[/color]



Obviously, this is going to be the battleground of most disputes as it seems the easiest way to try and escape the Hague. The problem is we all know how this cases are painted in Japan when it involves a FG. (I dunno about you guys but from personal experience, I'd bet plenty of $$ that DV is a far larger problem with Japanese men...but TIJ where false perception reigns supreme)

[superLoser]

Anyone can claim abuse but isn't the burden on them to prove it? Nowadays, what Keitai out there doesn't have a camera or a mic? For older cases, it may not be so cut and dry but I can already picture the court questioning:

So he abused you?

[color="Magenta"]Yes, many times. He was violent, gambling, and a drunkard![/color]

You reported the abuse to the authorities, right?

[color="Magenta"]No, WE JAPANESE have a culture that doesn't involve outside authorities in family matters.[/color]

Do you have any pictures, videos, or other evidence of the abuse?
[color="Magenta"]
No, I was scared for my life! [breaks down in tears] I don't want anything to remember those times...[/color]

[turns to the father, his family, etc.]

Did she ever show any signs of abuse, trauma, etc?

[color="SeaGreen"]Nope, everything seemed fine and then one day we came home and she was just gone and so were the kids.[/color]



Obviously, this is going to be the battleground of most disputes as it seems the easiest way to try and escape the Hague. The problem is we all know how this cases are painted in Japan when it involves a FG. (I dunno about you guys but from personal experience, I'd bet plenty of $$ that DV is a far larger problem with Japanese men...but TIJ where false perception reigns supreme)

This definitely strikes me as what could become a typical scenario, with the J-spouse being advised to cry abuse to further game the system. Personally, I don't trust the courts or J-stone coppers to put the burden of proof where it belongs when FGs are involved.

While I agree that in cases where it can be reasonably proven that domestic violence has indeed occurred that it's necessary to protect the abused spouse and children, regardless of nationality, this "clause" looks like yet another MIJ gaping loophole that would allow Japan to uphold the letter of the law while effectively circumventing its spirit and intent.

[Greji]

[color="Magenta"]Yes, many times. He was violent, gambling, and a drunkard![/color]

Well, shit! That leaves me out of any settlements. If they're going to enforce that, I couldn't even get me dog back...

[gaijinpunch]

he also said that Japan will be handing over the wanted* parties who fled to japan. but that would also include any thrid party who assisted them with the abduction (baachan, Japanese Embassy in the US, etc.)

This I'm going to say your buddy missed in translation, or just doesn't know. Japan doesn't extradite: period. End of story. I can see them turning over the children (barely, at some point), but not the parent.

One negative comment he said was that there will be a large amount of people claiming abuse and Japan will ask for an investigation, but will get the cold shoulder from the other government... this will keep the kids in "safe haven" status for several years and most likely never get executed...

This is going to depend on the other country I'm sure. America seems to be keen on actually not sweeping child abuse/kidnapping issues under the rug (so long as a professional football coach doesn't do it), so I wouldn't expect much of a delay from at least that country. Also, the Hague has been argued to already have all the abuse clauses in there. IE: Stop fucking playing w/ your balls Japan, and sign the fucking thing.

[IparryU]

Stop fucking playing w/ your balls Japan, and sign the fucking thing.

This goes for just about everything in this cuntry

[Greji]

Japan doesn't extradite: period. End of story.

Ahh, that is not exactly true. If you are talking about spouses in this instance (at least for the present), you may be right, I don't know otherwise. But if you are talking about extradition in criminal offenses, that is not correct....

[IparryU]

Ahh, that is not exactly true. If you are talking about spouses in this instance (at least for the present), you may be right, I don't know otherwise. But if you are talking about extradition in criminal offenses, that is not correct....

wonder why this never gets implemented in this case...

[matsuki]

wonder why this never gets implemented in this case...

They don't want to deprive the half child of experiencing four seasons

[Coligny]

Well, shit! That leaves me out of any settlements. If they're going to enforce that, I couldn't even get me dog back...

Comiiiiing...

[gaijinpunch]

Ahh, that is not exactly true. If you are talking about spouses in this instance (at least for the present), you may be right, I don't know otherwise. But if you are talking about extradition in criminal offenses, that is not correct....

Hmm... page isn't loading for me. Maybe hacked by some abusive parent. Can you sum up?

The way it was explained to me (I admit, I've not done much of my own studying on the issue) is that Japan doesn't have extradition agreements with just about anyone. It might w/ some, but I know it doesn't have, for example, the US. That one guy was wanted by the FBI for decades for murder, and was never extradited. Dip shit went to Saigon for vacation (and blogged it) where he was quickly picked up.

Fujimori is another one that rings a bell, and he wasn't even Japanese.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

The way it was explained to me (I admit, I've not done much of my own studying on the issue) is that Japan doesn't have extradition agreements with just about anyone. It might w/ some, but I know it doesn't have, for example, the US. That one guy was wanted by the FBI for decades for murder, and was never extradited. Dip shit went to Saigon for vacation (and blogged it) where he was quickly picked up.

Fujimori is another one that rings a bell, and he wasn't even Japanese.

Not entirely true. Japan has few bilateral extradition treaties, but as a member of international organizations such as Interpol can and does extradite under Japanese law.
I assume you're talking about the Miura case. It's true he was wanted by the FBI for decades, but extradition was never sought. Considering he was jailed in Japan on the basis of fairly flimsy circumstantial evidence (though his subsequent suicide hints at guilt), there's little doubt authorities here would have stood in his way had an extradition request been made (by the U.S., one of the countries Japan does have a bilateral treaty with). Japan can't be blamed for that one.
Fujimori was a Japanese citizen.

Having said all that, Japan traditionally balks at extraditing its citizens...but, so do most other countries.

[gaijinpunch]

Okay, page is loading now. This is an interesting nugget.

>> As of June 2008, the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaties with the United States of America and the Republic of Korea have already taken effect.

The case I was referring to (can't remember the guys name) was a Japanese guy that offed his wife [allegedly]) and was hiding in Japan for decades, literally. Blogged about his vacation to Saigon not really doing his extradition treaty research, and got lifted at the police station. It was also pre-2008 and googling 'Japanese arrested in Saigon' gets all kinds of wrong hits.

I believe even Fujimori was 2007. Didn't know he was a citizen. From English Wiki:

After Fujimori fled to Japan, the government of Peru requested his extradition. Because Japan recognizes Fujimori as a Japanese citizen rather than a Peruvian citizen, and because Japan refuses to extradite its citizens to other countries, Fujimori was not extradited from Japan.

Having said all that, Japan traditionally balks at extraditing its citizens...but, so do most other countries.

This is probably more on topic that all of the above. Have there been any cases of extradition in recent history, of Japanese nationals or of low-level gaijin? And, do we really think they're going to extradite a parent for something as gray as child abduction? Personally I'll be shocked if they join the Hague in the next five years, but I've been surprised before.

[Mike Oxlong]

The case I was referring to (can't remember the guys name) was a Japanese guy that offed his wife [allegedly]) and was hiding in Japan for decades, literally. Blogged about his vacation to Saigon not really doing his extradition treaty research, and got lifted at the police station. It was also pre-2008 and googling 'Japanese arrested in Saigon' gets all kinds of wrong hits.

SDH is right. It was Kazuyoshi Miura, wanted for murdering his wife in LA in 1981. He got picked up on Saipan Feb. 2008.

[gaijinpunch]

Interesting that he was charged in Japan after not being charged in America, where it took place. Wonder what would have happened if his wife was white. Interesting case though.

[maraboutslim]

SDH is right. It was Kazuyoshi Miura, wanted for murdering his wife in LA in 1981. He got picked up on Saipan Feb. 2008.

Of course not to be confused with Kazuyoshi Miura, the football player, who was at one time Japan's best striker. I think he's still playing in his mid 40s.

[gaijinpunch]

Haha -- he actually popped up first on the Wikipedia search.

[Samurai_Jerk]

That one guy was wanted by the FBI for decades for murder, and was never extradited. Dip shit went to Saigon for vacation (and blogged it) where he was quickly picked up.

You do know that Saigon is a city in Vietnam that is no longer called Saigon, right?

[hanasims]

There is a Japanese mother who went to Hawaii in April to renew her US green card that was picked up by authorities for International parental kidnapping to Japan. She is being held in Wisconsin.

[gaijinpunch]

You do know that Saigon is a city in Vietnam that is no longer called Saigon, right?

Whoops.... I got the first three letters right though.

[matsuki]

There is a Japanese mother who went to Hawaii in April to renew her US green card that was picked up by authorities for International parental kidnapping to Japan. She is being held in Wisconsin.

I think it's been discussed here before but post up a link or two to what you're referring to. There might be updates.

[hanasims]

Irish current affairs TV programme Prime Time featured Japan Child abduction and the denial of access to foreign parents in a Prime Time special on the subject.

http://seanandrenee.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/prime-time-video-more-about-my-story/

[matsuki]

Irish current affairs TV programme Prime Time featured Japan Child abduction and the denial of access to foreign parents in a Prime Time special on the subject.

http://seanandrenee.wordpress.com/2011/11/15/prime-time-video-more-about-my-story/

Wow, d00d's story sucks but he totally let the crazy bitch take away his kids.

[hanasims]

David did what was best for the kids and the wife lied and cheated her way to get what she wanted.

In an international marriage with a Japanese, it is the husbands legal requirement to keep the wife happy. No doing so is domestic violence and makes the husband a violent criminal.

This unfortunately, to some extent, extends beyond Japan's border. The Japanese wife will use things like the kids' happiness, and whatever else she can to get her way, because in Japan, her not getting exactly what she wants is against the law and a violent crime.

[GomiGirl]

Come on - that is a bit of a broad generalisation isn't it?

Not every Japanese woman becomes a crazy kidnapping poisonous witch.. yes there are some absolute horror stories and my heart goes out to these fathers who are left with nothing and no contact with their kids, but you can't say that every Japanese wife will do this.

People can do some horrible horrible things to each other when they are angry and relationships break down and this is very very sad. But I don't think that a "them and us" finger pointing and blame game thing is going to help bridge the gap.

I personal know Japanese women who are devoted wives and mothers who are as outraged as their foreign friends about the child abduction issue. This shouldn't be a Japanese vs the rest of the world issue, but a tragic human story of families that break down.

[Greji]

You do know that Saigon is a city in Vietnam that is no longer called Saigon, right?

Most of the Vietnamese I deal with still call it Saigon. Probably because it is easier to say than Ho Chi Minh City......

[matsuki]

Come on - that is a bit of a broad generalisation isn't it?

Not every Japanese woman becomes a crazy kidnapping poisonous witch.. yes there are some absolute horror stories and my heart goes out to these fathers who are left with nothing and no contact with their kids, but you can't say that every Japanese wife will do this.

People can do some horrible horrible things to each other when they are angry and relationships break down and this is very very sad. But I don't think that a "them and us" finger pointing and blame game thing is going to help bridge the gap.

I personal know Japanese women who are devoted wives and mothers who are as outraged as their foreign friends about the child abduction issue.

Wholeheartedly agreed but....

This shouldn't be a Japanese vs the rest of the world issue

Exactly...but Japan is making it one.

[Samurai_Jerk]

This shouldn't be a Japanese vs the rest of the world issue.

Maybe not at the individual level but at the macro level it is and should be presented as such. I do think that we should keep in mind though that there are a lot of Japanese parents facing the same issue because of Japanese law.

[Guest]

This most certainly is a rest of the world versus Japan issue and it is harming relations much more than the Japanese themselves realize.

The situation will continue to escalate until it is resolved to the satisfaction of the rest of the world. This is a struggle the Japanese simply cannot win.