Camping, campfire laws in the Nat'l Parks here ?

[nikoneko]

[wagyl]

I think you meant for your English text to say that camping is prohibited except in designated special zones. That is my understanding of the situation especially in areas which are closely patrolled.

I can't point you to specific rules and regulations, just offer this anecdotal description of local practice. I go camping with a friend who just LOVES him a campfire, every single opportunity. We do a fair bit of wilderness camping, on occasion in national parks. And every time we are camping where other people will see what we get up to, we use gas bottles or if in a privately run campsite sometimes a frame which you can build the fire on above the ground surface, like a low barbeque grill I suppose. When we are out of the way and no one will see, especially where there is evidence of other people having made fireplaces, the caveman comes out.

[nikoneko]

No I did mean I can only find it specifically prohibited within these zones, nature preserves and such. But even in English it was tough to decipher as it was buried deep within pdfs. I'm looking for the link now. I'll post it when I find it.

Excellent advice on the rest thank you. That is kind of where I was leaning. When you can be discrete go at it, otherwise, pull out the stove. I suppose my biggest concern (which isn't anything that can't be shrugged off) is some nosy ojisan waking me up at the crack of dawn to tell me I can't camp here blah blah. Another concern is my wife and family are pushing me to blog about my wilderness experiences and I don't really want to be saying "Hey look at me I'm illegal!"

Edit: This is the link http://www.env.go.jp/en/laws/nature/law_np.pdf

The Minister of the Environment, in regard to the National Park and the prefectural governor concerned, in regard to the Quasi-national Park, when particularly necessary for the preservation of the landscapes of the Park, may designate the Special Protection Zone within the Special Zone in accordance with the Park Plan.

Within the Special Protection Zone the activities listed in following items shall not be
carried out without the permission of the Minister of the Environment in the case of the National Park and without that of the prefectural governor concerned in the case of the Quasi-national Park; provided, however, that the activity to be carried out as the emergency measure in case of disaster shall be excepted from this provision.
(1) Any Activity mentioned in the items 1 and 2, 4 to 7, 9, 10, 15 and 16 of paragraph 3 of the preceding article.
(2) Damaging trees and bamboos. (3) Planting trees and bamboos. (4) Releasing animals (including livestock pasturing). (5) Accumulating or storing things in the open air. (6) Setting fire or making fire. (7) Collecting or damaging plants other than trees and bamboos, or collecting fallen
leaves or fallen branches. (8)Planting plants other than trees and bamboos or sowing seeds of plants. (9) Capturing, killing or wounding animals, or collecting or damaging their eggs. (10) Using horses, vehicles or power-driven vessels, or landing airplanes in areas
other than roads or plazas. (11) Any activity other than those mentioned in the preceding items which may affect
the landscapes of the Special Protection Zone and is prescribed by the Cabinet
Order.

And then in another enormous PDF I found I THINK what were the zones and there were very few.

[Coligny]

>> or landing airplanes in areas other than roads or plazas.

oh... dear... opening a can of wormz...

[wagyl]

[Russell]

I may be completely wrong on this, but you are worried too much.

Just go for it, obey the local signs you see, and you will be fine. Especially the signs prohibiting open fires in mountain areas are important, because you do not want to cause a bush fire. Some mountains can also be private property, where they do not want you, especially when it is for collecting certain mountain vegetables and mushrooms.

If an Ojisan walks up to you at dawn saying you can't camp, just bow, apologize, and move on. I think getting arrested for this kind of thing is rare in Japan, since it is an activity that is uncommon. In general things get prohibited in Japan when someone complains, because of noise, smells, or whatever, so sometimes laws are surprisingly liberal. Just use common sense to not piss people off, and you should be fine. It is more likely that an Ojisan walks up to you and starts a chat than a quarrel.

But take my opinion with a grain of salt, since I am not a happy camper. I only go occasionally on autocamp, preferably in non-designate areas. Never had problems with it, except for convincing the Missus that there is nothing to worry about. Ahhh, those law-abiding J-people...

[Coligny]

Just go for it, obey the local signs you see, and you will be fine.

Despite my anal retentive by-zee-book dweebiness I would totally do like this... (If I could stand the idea of camping).

At worse you'll be asked to leave... then smile pack and go... I see more problems coming from the locals than from the cops who might just ask you not to stay more than a night (because they might not have much rules in their book to ask for more)...

Except in Hokkaido between the locals and the bear/fox/snakes/wolfes/giant spiders... I would not even try...

[nikoneko]

Except in Hokkaido between the locals and the bear/fox/snakes/wolfes/giant spiders... I would not even try...

Will reply more tomorrow, thanks to all, but this is where we disagree. I would revel in it and wash it all down with a sapporo beer.

[nikoneko]

I may be completely wrong on this, but you are worried too much.

I think you are probably right. It's just so weird to search for it and find almost no Japanese who do this. Or maybe I am just not finding the right keywords to search for, who knows. I have no problems with breaking the wa and pissing off the ojisans but it's just a weird issue to find so little info on it when it's so common where I come from in the US.

And as far as actual law stuff yeah I don't think you would ever get arrested or fined as I've never seen anything resembling a ranger at all. But I do regularly hear/see fire helicopters* patrolling which is something to think about it.

*Once I had one hovering not more than 100m or so above me for 30 minutes looking for fires when I was lost a bit, frazzled, and out of water on a very rough trail making the entire thing quite a freaky apocalypse now experience. But that's another story for another time haha.

[wagyl]

It's just so weird to search for it and find almost no Japanese who do this. Or maybe I am just not finding the right keywords to search for, who knows.

Just taking a break from moon viewing to say that a lot of this will be from how camping became popular in this country: small scale foundries started moving into camping gear when their previous products lost popularity, and marketed through outdoor magazines which became "camping manuals" for noobs. It is an industry centered around "camping goods," presenting it as a cool hobby. But of course, those magazines can't promote borderline activities to their noob readership.

People who bend the rules are viewed as troublemakers. With that same friend, we organised being picked up by an innkeeper in the morning from a beach on an island in Okinawa. The innkeeper made it very clear that we were not his favorite type of customer, as
1) we must have obviously camped out on the beach overnight
2) we both had beards, and
3) one of us was a gaijin
We only just managed to save the day by demonstrating awamori prowess that evening.

[Russell]

I think you are probably right. It's just so weird to search for it and find almost no Japanese who do this. Or maybe I am just not finding the right keywords to search for, who knows. I have no problems with breaking the wa and pissing off the ojisans but it's just a weird issue to find so little info on it when it's so common where I come from in the US.

And as far as actual law stuff yeah I don't think you would ever get arrested or fined as I've never seen anything resembling a ranger at all.

A Japanese colleague (and friend) of mine sometimes goes camping with his mates from when he was a University student (he is now almost 60). They go hiking for a couple of hours deep into the mountains, catch trout, barbecue it, and stay there the night. They never had any trouble. In Japan it works like this: if you leave trash, or annoy people otherwise, to the extent that they complain to the authorities, then inevitably the activities causing the complaints will be forbidden or heavily regulated for the rest of your and our lives. So when you go camping, it is best to act responsibly and do not cause trouble such as to take away chances for future campers. Fortunately, camping in nature is not very common in Japan, so there is not too much regulations. Anyway, sometimes it is no problem to break the rules, as long as it does not clearly annoy people.

Personal experience when autocamping in a park in a town in the Inaka (probably illegal): two cops visited us, knocking on the car, and checking what we were up to. When we told about our camping plans, they warned us about the Bosozoku that were sometimes in the area at night, and they offered us to camp at the Parking place in front of their police station. We did not take the offer, but this illustrates a side of Japan I very much like!

[Coligny]

two cops visited us, knocking on the car, and checking what we were up to. When we told about our camping plans, they warned us about the Bosozoku that were sometimes in the area at night, and they offered us to camp at the Parking place in front of their police station. We did not take the offer, but this illustrates a side of Japan I very much like!

Tssss... be carefull... I wuz redsnotted to hell last time I said sumthing gud aboot them J-Cops...

[Russell]

Tssss... be carefull... I wuz redsnotted to hell last time I said sumthing gud aboot them J-Cops...

That must have been a bunch of Debitos.