Tokyo Police Assault Eight-Year-Old Halfu?

[bichiguso]

I live right by a Koban and since I have to walk by it all times of the day and night, if there is an officer standing outside, I always give em a polite "good morning" or "good evening" and have always got a warm smile and response. A few times I was carrying my hockey equipment and they actually chatted me up about it. Anyhow, if I ever have to call upon them, at least most of them will be able to recognize me and know I'm friendly/fluent...the last thing you want to hear when you need help and run into a koban is teeth sucking...on the other hand, anywhere else I encounter police in Japan, I tend to ignore them for the reasons you stated. Never happened to me but many of my friends have been stopped and subjected to questioning. (though never any searches) Best to leave em be.

I'm mainly speaking about Shinjuku/Shibuya/Tamachi areas of Tokyo...all areas that you're more likely to have crime/drugs/you name it. I never had issues elsewhere, and after being stopped and searched a few times, the police and I kind of got onto a 'hey, how's it going!' basis.

What I do think, though, is that the typical Japanese way of thinking is the polar opposite of, say, the UK. From my own and friends' experiences, in the UK, if you make eye contact with the police and say hello, it's a smooth way of showing that you're an upstanding citizen who's doing nothing wrong, whereas the second you make eye contact in a busy area of Tokyo, it's like you're making a quiet admission of guilt. My local police were always really nice to me, but in Shibuya or Shinjuku, I always found it easier to pretend they weren't there, even though it felt like I looked suspicious in doing so. Rarely if ever got stopped when police became invisible...

[Greji]

I never had issues elsewhere, and after being stopped and searched a few times, the police and I kind of got onto a 'hey, how's it going!' basis.

How did you get searched? That is a bit extreme. If they asked you for permission that is one thing, but the rules for search and seizure are pretty strict and lacking permission they can only search you with a warrant.

[bichiguso]

How did you get searched? That is a bit extreme. If they asked you for permission that is one thing, but the rules for search and seizure are pretty strict and lacking permission they can only search you with a warrant.

I mean searched in a shokumu shitsumon sense. I'm always cooperative with the police because I knew that if you said they couldn't look in your bag, odds are you'd end up back at the koban doing a back and forth of 'show us?' 'no!' '...show us?' etc., and since I never had anything bad on me, I would just let them go through my bag, usually on a busy day on Senta-gai or near Dogenzaka.

They were always polite, and would ask if I had anything embarrassing in my bag that I didn't want people to see. Conversation-wise, it was always, 'Excuse me, good evening, what are you doing around here? You know there are a lot of drug crimes in this area? Can we see your registration card please? Do you have anything naughty in your bag? Can I just have a quick look? Thanks for your cooperation.'

My [Japanese] husband got stopped and patted down/questioned a lot, too. Always in the street...and they would usually have him undo his jeans and shake them around as well. o_O

[matsuki]

My [Japanese] husband got stopped and patted down/questioned a lot, too. Always in the street...and they would usually have him undo his jeans and shake them around as well. o_O

I'd go to jail for sure if they asked that of me...

[Greji]

I mean searched in a shokumu shitsumon sense. I'm always cooperative with the police because I knew that if you said they couldn't look in your bag, odds are you'd end up back at the koban doing a back and forth of 'show us?' 'no!' '...show us?' etc., and since I never had anything bad on me, I would just let them go through my bag, usually on a busy day on Senta-gai or near Dogenzaka.

They were always polite, and would ask if I had anything embarrassing in my bag that I didn't want people to see. Conversation-wise, it was always, 'Excuse me, good evening, what are you doing around here? You know there are a lot of drug crimes in this area? Can we see your registration card please? Do you have anything naughty in your bag? Can I just have a quick look? Thanks for your cooperation.'

My [Japanese] husband got stopped and patted down/questioned a lot, too. Always in the street...and they would usually have him undo his jeans and shake them around as well. o_O

It don't hurt to cooperate, but being gaijin in public should not be an offense requiring immediate search and/or seizure. I've had them come up to me and ask for permission to search my car on a couple of occasions. This obviously is a more compounded offense of being gaijin in public with a vehicle, which is more severe than being gaijin and walking. On one, they never asked to see my driver's license or alien registration they just wanted permission to search my car. On this occasion, I was waiting for someone, was legally parked and had time, so the debate was on. I asked if there had been a crime, or there was some reason to suspect that I had contraband in my car and of course they said no, nothing, nada, that it was just a routine check. So I told than I would not give them permission without a legal warrant and that I would be happy to wait to give them time to obtain one. This started various song and dance routines about "everyone consents," "we're not trying to say you're bad," "we're no looking for anything specific," etc. This went on for about 15 minutes and my friend called and said she was on her way and would be there in about five minutes, so I did a 180 and told the by this time red faced and steaming protectors of the wa, that i had a change of heart and they had permission if they could complete it in five minutes at which time my appointment was arriving and I would be departing. I added that if they weren't finished in five minutes, I was going to go to the PS (Azabu) and file a complaint of harassment with their supervisor. Search was over in about two minutes, with lots of shucking and jiving and thanking me for my outstanding cooperation.

It is nice to be cooperative and understanding if we happen to be in a high crime area, but in a completely different environment to be singled out on the street from a hundred, or so passer-bys who just happen to be Japanese, leaves something to be desired.

[bichiguso]

:crazy3:

I'd go to jail for sure if they asked that of me...

Yeah, he was not too happy about it, either. It was mainly a measure to see if guys were carrying drugs in their underwear...they would feel around his waistband and check his belt as well. I know a couple Japanese tattoo artists who would sometimes get their balls fondled, too. We all fit the 'profile' for typical drug users, I guess, because we had tattoos, piercings, and funny hair. Not the end of the world, but a bit irritating for sure.

[bichiguso]

It don't hurt to cooperate, but being gaijin in public should not be an offense requiring search and/or seizure. I've had them come up to me and ask for permission to search my car. This obviously was a more compounded offense of being gaijin in public with a vehicle, which is more severe than being gaijin and walking. They never asked to see my driver's license or alien registration they just wanted permission to search my car. I was waiting for someone, was legally parked and had time, so the debate was on. I asked if there had been a crime, or there was some reason to suspect that I had contraband in my car and of course they said no, nothing, nada, that it was just a routine check. So I told than I would not give them permission without a legal warrant and I would be happy to wait to give them time to obtain one. This started various song and dance routines about "everyone consents," "we're not trying to say you're bad," "we're no looking for anything specific," etc. This went on for about 15 minutes and my friend called and said she was on her way and would be there in about five minutes, so I did a 180 and told the by this time red faced and steaming protectors of the wa, that i had a change of heart and they had permission if they could complete it in five minutes at which time my appointment was arriving and I would be departing. I added that if they weren't finished in five minutes, I was going to go to the PS (Azabu) and file a complaint of harassment with their supervisor. Search was over in about two minutes, with lots of shucking and jiving and thanking me for my outstanding cooperation.

It is nice to be cooperative and understanding if we happen to be in a high crime area, but in a completely different environment to be singled out on the street from a hundred, or so passer-bys who just happen to be Japanese, leaves something to be desired.

Wow, well done! It can be hard to keep your cool, but as long as you tell them you have better things to do while being polite, it seems to almost always work in your favour.

My husband was actually the first one to get searched, introducing me to the world of shokumu shitsumon. He had said hello to the police, and they took that as an opportunity to talk more. When I came outside [I was at the bank by Donki in Shibuya] he was startled and stumbling to produce his ID. So my Japanese husband started it all

We asked them a few times, too, and the answer was always 'shigoto desu kara...' I know people have quotas to meet, but I didn't ever start getting stopped by the police until late 2005.

[GomiGirl]

It is nice to be cooperative and understanding if we happen to be in a high crime area, but in a completely different environment to be singled out on the street from a hundred, or so passer-bys who just happen to be Japanese, leaves something to be desired.

Be careful Greji - this almost makes you sound like you have left leaning political tendencies.

Good story though - I would have liked to see you be the ratbag.

[matsuki]

I dunno the situation with Greji's lemur but I'd probably have stood my ground on not being searched and just answer all their requests with questions about why they want to search me/my vehicle and reminding them how valued privacy is in Japan.

[Sa_Race]

Anyone here carrying a knife? What are the views the locals and the FG about this. I do have a rescue knife with me all the time -in my shoulder bag- and it's a fantastic tool for everyday life and if SHTF. Am I asking for troubles?

As you can see I'm not going to stab a lot of people with this.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I've seen the cops randomly stop Chinese people and search their bags in Shinjuku several times. I think the point is that they usually say yes because they don't know their rights. I would definitely not let them search my bag/vehicle/house without probable cause and/or a warrant unless they threatened to detain me.

I did get my first riding a bicycle while gaijin stop last Friday night. The guy just wanted to check my registration. In this case I was very cooperative because I was happy he didn't notice I was three sheets to the wind.

[Coligny]

Anyone here carrying a knife?

My thought exactly...

Or more precisely...

Any old amurikun tourist here carrying a knife ?...

[Yokohammer]

As you can see I'm not going to stab a lot of people with this.

If the blade is longer than 5cm (I think it was), you're fucked if the police find it on you.

[Sa_Race]

My thought exactly...

Or more precisely...

Any old amurikun tourist here carrying a knife ?...

Eheheh.

Never answer "Yes".

[matsuki]

Any old amurikun tourist here carrying a knife ?...

No 'mericans in their right mind would try to bring a knife over here as a tourist. The ones crazy enough to do so would probably get stuck in immigration and be denied entry anyways

[Sa_Race]

Hmm, it probably better ends in the bug-out-bag* then. And if I die horribly one day because of the lack of said tool, I'll thank FG forum.

*where I already have a 20 cm blade 'dagger', just be cause.

[Yokohammer]

And if I die horribly one day because of the lack of said tool, I'll thank FG forum.

That's OK. We'll apologize profusely to your ashes.

Actually, I've never really understood a few details of this. Perhaps someone better informed can help us out.

1) When they say 5cm, do they mean the entire blade, or just the length of the cutting edge?

2) Suppose you've just bought a cooking knife or even a survival knife (they do sell the things) and are on your way home with it. Is it OK if it's still in the original package and you have a receipt, or could a cop having a bad day detain you for that as well?

3) And what about diving knives and survival knives in general. You have to transport them to wherever they're going to be used, eh? Possibly on public transportation, no? Carpenters use knives. All kinds of craftsmen use knives. Surely they have to carry the things around from time to time.

My guess is that it's all very arbitrary, like most things are here. But if there are any actual rules it'd be good to know.

[BigInJapan]

3) And what about diving knives and survival knives in general. You have to transport them to wherever they're going to be used, eh? Possibly on public transportation, no? Carpenters use knives. All kinds of craftsmen use knives. Surely they have to carry the things around from time to time.

I used to live not far from a bay in Yokohama, and just about any day of the week you could see oji-sans with their little coolers and fishing gear on the train.
I never saw any visible knives, but I'll wager most of them had a blade of some sort longer than 5cm in their tackle boxes.

There is this thread about the elderly American tourist that was allegedly arrested for carrying a pocket knife.

[Yokohammer]

There is this thread about the elderly American tourist that was allegedly arrested for carrying a pocket knife.

I remembered that one and just reviewed it, but couldn't find any definitive answers to the questions, even though SJ was asking pretty much the same questions in that thread.

[Greji]

(1) I blame Greji
(2) I blame... Yua Aida who don't return mah phone calls...
(2b) and pediatric doctors and neo natalists... who suck donkey balls...

Now let's see if I got this right. It is my fault because I want to do Aida Yua who does pediatric natalists and neo doctors with sucked balls who own a happy donkey. Is that about it?


Photo by Coligny Smut Associates Ltd

[Mike Oxlong]

1) When they say 5cm, do they mean the entire blade, or just the length of the cutting edge?

Wikipedia, along with more local websites give the following:

[indent]The revised law bans daggers and double-edged knives whose blades exceed 5.5 centimeters or 2.16 inches," said Master Sgt. Donald E. Preston, media liaison chief, Headquarters U.S. Forces Japan. "All spears and swords with blades exceeding 15 centimeters (5.9 inches) are also banned.[/indent]
http://www.misawa.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123132231

2) Suppose you've just bought a cooking knife or even a survival knife (they do sell the things) and are on your way home with it. Is it OK if it's still in the original package and you have a receipt, or could a cop having a bad day detain you for that as well?

3) And what about diving knives and survival knives in general. You have to transport them to wherever they're going to be used, eh? Possibly on public transportation, no? Carpenters use knives. All kinds of craftsmen use knives. Surely they have to carry the things around from time to time.

According to one of Taro's old posts, it seems some things like diving knives or Swiss Army knives are ok as long as they are packed with the diving gear, picnic goods, and not on your person.

[Yokohammer]

[indent]The revised law bans daggers and double-edged knives whose blades exceed 5.5 centimeters or 2.16 inches," said Master Sgt. Donald E. Preston, media liaison chief, Headquarters U.S. Forces Japan. "All spears and swords with blades exceeding 15 centimeters (5.9 inches) are also banned.[/indent]
http://www.misawa.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123132231

OK. I don't know how the Japanese law is worded, but that English would seem to exclude pocket knives. Don't plan to test out that assumption though. As for the issue of blade length vs. cutting edge length, I guess blade length is the parameter, so you'd have to make sure your blade was shorter than 5.5cm from the end of the handle to the tip.

According to one of Taro's old posts, it seems some things like diving knives or Swiss Army knives are ok as long as they are packed with the diving gear, picnic goods, and not on your person.

Yeah, this is in the article you link:

Fishing and diving are valid reasons for carrying a knife off base.

So, if I'm carrying a 10cm diving knife around Akihabara, it's OK as long as I'm also wearing flippers and goggles ...

[matsuki]

It says double edged knives....wouldn't most of the innocuous knives in question be single edged?

[Samurai_Jerk]

If you do Iaido or something similar, do you have to have a license to carry your sword to and from the dojo?

[Sa_Race]

Hmmm...

If I understand, doubled-edged weapons with sharp tips and blades longer than 5,5cm are banned from possession. Unless it has some cultural or historical value but it must be registered with the authorities.

Other knives/tools you can possess. You also have a right to carry if you have a valid reason and it's not at immediate reach on yourself. If you get caught, the decision of the police is at their discretion.

Anyone can confirm this please? Google translate is not that good with legal mumbo-jumbo.

http://www.npa.go.jp/safetylife/seikan51/ssb_akb.htm
http://www.jkg.jp/law.htm

[matsuki]

If you do Iaido or something similar, do you have to have a license to carry your sword to and from the dojo?

If you do Iaido, you can probably pull a Zorroesque move before the popo knows it and he'll be too embarrassed to harass you with no pants.

[nikoneko]

Hmmm...

If I understand, doubled-edged weapons with sharp tips and blades longer than 5,5cm are banned from possession. Unless it has some cultural or historical value but it must be registered with the authorities.

Other knives/tools you can possess. You also have a right to carry if you have a valid reason and it's not at immediate reach on yourself. If you get caught, the decision of the police is at their discretion.

Anyone can confirm this please? Google translate is not that good with legal mumbo-jumbo.

http://www.npa.go.jp/safetylife/seikan51/ssb_akb.htm
http://www.jkg.jp/law.htm

I can't find it right now but A&F Country (big outdoor retailer) used to have a pretty clear explanation of the laws. Not just sheath knifes but even folders of any size are against the law unless you have a reason. Hiking, fishing, bringing it home from the store are considered valid reasons. Other than that it is gray as is typical here. I'll look for the link later and if I find it I'll post it.

Also take that survival knife out of your everyday carry now. A little swiss army knife or leatherman you can provide a reason for easily, but a cop sees that thing and your lucky if you just get a fine. The only time I take sheath knife with me is hiking and it sits way in the bottom of my pack until we hit the trail.

[nikoneko]

[Coligny]

Someone with better translation skills than me will have to help out though, my wife helped me figure out the harder parts.

Am giggling like a schoolgurl...

[Coligny]

Now let's see if I got this right. It is my fault because I want to do Aida Yua who does pediatric natalists and neo doctors with sucked balls who own a happy donkey. Is that about it?

Pretty much... but you forgot the arrow in the knee...