I might go to Japan without a job. How should I proceed?

[Crispy]

I'm back seeking more advice. My parents are willing to pay my way to Japan and give me the money to live there until I can get a working visa and support myself. I am still hesitant to take them up on it (vs. finding a job before I leave), but they are insisting. They want me the hell out of this country, soon. If I do go for it, how should I live, and pay as little as possible? Hotels? Weekly rent apartments (if they exist)? youth hostels? I don't know anyone who has ever done this, but I bet someone here has.

[Crispy]

Well, it is my job to find out exactly how much it would cost my parents, and I would want to keep it as cheap as possible...it's against my nature to even take them up on their offer, but they are getting more insistant by the day. Their thinking is that any time spent flailing around looking for work is much, much better spent in Japan than here, and I tend to agree (this was all started by being laid off of my third contract tech job in three months).

I am still applying for any jobs in Japan I spot from the internet (dave's ESL cafe, gaijinpot.com, here), and ideally I would get a job before I left, but I have been doing that for months to no avail, and my Japanese ability is declining the whole time. So, I need to set myself some kind of deadline and say that if I don't have a serious job prospect in Japan at this time, I will just go and re-evaluate once I get there.

I have heard of these gaijin houses. They do sound like the most extreme example of communal living outside of the bottom of a slave ship. It's still an option.

[Caustic Saint]

The only other job link I have that's not in the FG Job Links section is Ohayosensei. Here's how they describe themselves - Welcome to the world's largest (17k+ unique visitors/month to the website alone) and most comprehensive (100+ positions/issue) jobs-in-Japan magazine. Now in its eleventh year of twice-monthly publication, the free electronic newsletter O-Hayo Sensei reports the best currently available teaching (and other English language-related) positions at conversation schools, universities, jukus, colleges, public schools and companies all across Japan.

Best of luck, and it sounds like a dream deal - even if you're reluctant to take it. I understand not wanting to "owe" somebody even if you don't have to pay them back. I'd love for my parents to offer me that deal, but just the same, there is the satisfaction of making your own way.

[Taro Toporific]

...to live there until I can get a working visa and support myself. I am still hesitant to take them up on it (vs. finding a job before I leave...

The old Bible of thousands of FG wannabes for the past 20 years,"JOBS in JAPAN"and most others likeHow to Land Jobs in Japan advice to come here cold and semi-illegal to find a job.

Most J-companies do NOT wanna hire a Pig-in-Poke. The Bad-Case scenerio is it's gonna take you 3 months to find job and more than $5-10K to get your own squat, phone, fidge, etc. (The Good-Case scenerio is it's gonna take you 3 weeks and $1,200). Please note many major Japanese companies will not sponsor visas (your soon-to-be-bucho is forced to privately).

YIKES! Come to think of it, most of the long-term gaijin on the the FG Forum came here under some sponsorship such as job transfer, Japanese education, martial arts, JET, etc. I got headhunted here but I was told to "wait" for 3-4 months. I scrapped and scammed as an illegal worker in a bunch shitty jobs and then had to do the Korean visa run on my own and at my own expense to get my work visa. It was DAMN TOUGH and I ran out of money ($3,500 spent in 9 weeks). Without leeching off my Judo sensai and a friendly mama-san who frequently gave me "taxi money" I would never have "made it".

BOTTOM LINE: Go for it.

[devicenull]

what does it take to change from a student visa to a work visa JOOC? students can work part time. and a language class would definitely be a good thing to have in japan.

[Crispy]

Yeah, I knew about that complication, but I assumed that any place that would sponsor people would have some kind of system worked out for it. And yes, I will be wary of any place that promises to employ me for any length of time without the proper visa.

My host family from when I was studying in Japan don't have a guest student right now, they might be willing to put me up not very much, that would make things easier. I don't want to live with them forever though, they are nice folks, but it's too much like living with my parents.

[AssKissinger]

You might want to check out this thread http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4586 . I seem to be in a minority position but I really believe you're right to want to set something up in advance. Everybody wants to say 'go for it!' and I undersatnd their feeling but it's so much easier if you have something lined up. You've been answering ads you say but not getting anywhere? Why not? Do you have four year degree? Also, other nationalities can get working holiday visas but Americans cannot. How much are your parents willing to fork over? Are they aware of how much the whole thing might cost? I think Taro says worst case is three months and a lot of dough before you settle in to something. Respectfully, I want to point out that it is possible unless, your folks are seriously kind and generous, to run out of cash or visa time before you land anything. Also, I think 'Korea runs' aren't as easy as they used to be. The customs people can refuse you right there at the gate if they want to. Legally, a tourist isn't supossed to be setting up a job you know. Again, I'm not trying to be a bummer or a defeatist. I believe in taking a chance and having an adventure and I feel I've lived a life that reflects that I just want to offer a word of caution. It's not always a cake walk here. Good luck!!

[devicenull]

well, here is my idea that i just pulled from the depths of my ass. find a cheap school with a language program and get yourself accepted. you should be able to file for scholarships no problem to cover living expenses. as a student, you can work part time... you can also be looking for a real job. from what i hear, many companies hire at the end of the school year as it is. i just have no idea on the regulations surrounding the change from a student visa to a work visa.

[kamome]

Why are your parents pushing you to go to Japan? That's quite unusual. Most parents beg their kids NOT to go to Japan (my parents are still on my case about it).

Do your parents think your job prospects are going to be better in Japan? My guess is they're panicking because you've been laid off and they think you will have better prospects in Japan. If so, you need to "educate" them on the realities of the Japanese marketplace. It's not necessarily better here, unless you are going for an ESL position. In your case, something should be lined up beforehand, or don't go to Japan at all. The risk/reward analysis is not in your favor otherwise.

[Taro Toporific]

...I think Taro says worst case is three months and a lot of dough before you settle in to something...I just want to offer a word of caution. It's not always a cake walk here. Good luck!!

Crispy has been here before and studied Japanese had so he's better off than 99% clueless folks still lost in Narita trying to find the Limo-Bus to Kabukicho.

As I said before, the Bad case scenerio is three months and a lot of dough before you settle into something. The WORST CASE is that 50-80% of nama gaijin/wannabe FGs from the States leave Japan in less than 8 months broke and bitter.

Rots of Ruck.

[AlbertSiegel]

once you do land that job and if you get lucky enough to get sponsored for a work visa, you'll have to leave the country to get your visa since they can only be issued at a foreign embassy, not within Japan.

I've read that they are allowing you to change VISA status without leaving Japan till the end of this year on a trial basis.

Do you have four year degree?

this brings me to another question.... I have been told that you do need a degree and you dont. Everyone who I have asked (but a few) have told me that a four year degree is needed for a work VISA. However, the Japanese embassy in America told me twice that you do not need a degree to get a work VISA for any job. It was explained that the school must be willing to hire you without the degree and help you with the VISA.

Can anyone add to this?

[Taro Toporific]

However, the Japanese embassy in America told me twice that you do not need a degree to get a work VISA for any job. It was explained that the school must be willing to hire you without the degree and help you with the VISA.

Can anyone add to this?

That's the Japanese embassy's "theory" but in practice it's SHAMEFUL LIE to say that to you. Most Immigration Office's will "delay" a non-degreed applicant. Also 90% of the English schools don't want a non-degreed person, do not believe it's possible to get them a visa (or want to cheat a non-degreed person on salary).

There are non-degreed FG working in the Japan Press and biz. HOWEVER, their life was hell getting to the work-visa state (most got married or are still illegal after years).

[Crispy]

Why are your parents pushing you to go to Japan? That's quite unusual. Most parents beg their kids NOT to go to Japan (my parents are still on my case about it).

Do your parents think your job prospects are going to be better in Japan? My guess is they're panicking because you've been laid off and they think you will have better prospects in Japan. If so, you need to "educate" them on the realities of the Japanese marketplace. It's not necessarily better here, unless you are going for an ESL position. In your case, something should be lined up beforehand, or don't go to Japan at all. The risk/reward analysis is not in your favor otherwise.

They want me to go because they consider it a valuable learning experience, as I do. It being challenging is part (really, almost all) of why they want me to do it. Our family has known many people who have lived and worked abroad and have been better people for it, and we both agree that it would be hugely beneficial to me, even if I don't end up in my dream job. Hell, it would be beneficial even if I was working at McDonald's.

And yeah, I have a four year degree, a fat lot of good it has done me here so far.

[AlbertSiegel]

There are non-degreed FG working in the Japan Press and biz. HOWEVER, their life was hell getting to the work-visa state (most got married or are still illegal after years).

Can you give an example of the hell getting the work-visa?

The FG still illegal... you have an example of that too?

What about entering on a freelance press work visa?

[jim katta]

Crispy has been here before and studied Japanese

that PLUS your parents are willing to front you cash? jeez, as far as I'm concerned, you are Golden. I don't even know why even have questions, shit, just go man, you are fucking solid. if, given your particular variables, you come to japan and get fucked, well, then there's just no hope.

[Taro Toporific]

Can you give an example of the hell getting the work-visa?

In one word "hurryupandwait"
You can get into work-visa LIMBO and Immigration knows you'll run out of money so they will delay you to death.

The FG still illegal... you have an example of that too?

Ha, ha, are you from Imigration?!
My ex-business partner was here for 10 years w/o any visa and left zillion yen richer. He's now "retired" well-off in NZ before the age of 40.

What about entering on a freelance press work visa?

It's been done but it takes real balls to pull it off. See Justin Hall's weblog: "Getting a Journalist's Visa to live in Japan"

[GargoyleTS]

http://www.mofa.go.jp/j_info/visit/visa/index.html Has the dope on getting Visa's and what is required. While technically they didn't lie when they said you don't have to have a Degree, the alternatives for most classifications are MUCH more demanding...like 10 years experience in a neccessary field or Certification (that they will accept) in a field.

And while I have yet to get there, or really anywhere yet, my observations lead me to believe the Eikaiwa Express would be your best bet. Get on with NOVA, GOES, AEON or one of the other biggies if you want lots of help setting up and settling in and start job-hunting after about 3 months (unless you like them). Try a smaller school if you really do wanna teach Engrish for a while, they should help you with information mostly, and the Visa most importantly.

Others will chime in with more on this, but I feel its a matter of laying out options for you, not telling you what you have to do.

[AlbertSiegel]

Ha, ha, are you from Imigration?!
My ex-business partner was here for 10 years w/o any visa and left zillion yen richer. He's now "retired" well-off in NZ before the age of 40.

WOW!! 10 years!! That dude must have some big b@lls!! Is this his photo?

[kamome]

Why are your parents pushing you to go to Japan? That's quite unusual. Most parents beg their kids NOT to go to Japan (my parents are still on my case about it).

Do your parents think your job prospects are going to be better in Japan? My guess is they're panicking because you've been laid off and they think you will have better prospects in Japan. If so, you need to "educate" them on the realities of the Japanese marketplace. It's not necessarily better here, unless you are going for an ESL position. In your case, something should be lined up beforehand, or don't go to Japan at all. The risk/reward analysis is not in your favor otherwise.

They want me to go because they consider it a valuable learning experience, as I do. It being challenging is part (really, almost all) of why they want me to do it. Our family has known many people who have lived and worked abroad and have been better people for it, and we both agree that it would be hugely beneficial to me, even if I don't end up in my dream job. Hell, it would be beneficial even if I was working at McDonald's.

And yeah, I have a four year degree, a fat lot of good it has done me here so far.

Yes, it's a learning experience. Whether or not it's hugely beneficial is another matter. If I were you, I'd try to leverage my Japan experience by working in the States before traipsing off to Japan without a game plan.

[Taro Toporific]

Yes, it's a learning experience. Whether or not it's hugely beneficial is another matter....

Several of my friends have scammed very shitty sales positions in foreign companies in Japan. They barely were making 100,000yen a month on commission-only sales. BUT ---and this is a big butt--- they used their great Japan "EXPERIENCE" to get into MBA school at Harvard and Yale. DAMN, slick move for guys who would have NEVER made into the Ivy League gravy train otherwise. They are now making 6-figures under the age of 30; farking grrreat for "English Teachers" on the make, don't you think?

[kamome]

Yes, it's a learning experience. Whether or not it's hugely beneficial is another matter....

Several of my friends have scammed very shitty sales positions in foreign companies in Japan. They barely were making 100,000yen a month on commission-only sales. BUT ---and this is a big butt--- they used their great Japan "EXPERIENCE" to get into MBA school at Harvard and Yale. DAMN, slick move for guys who would have NEVER made into the Ivy League gravy train otherwise. They are now making 6-figures under the age of 30]

Was that just their Japan experience, or their Japan experience plus a 3.9 undergraduate GPA and a really high GMAT score? Japan experience alone won't get you into the Ivy League.

[Crispy]

Yeah, I wasn't expecting anything like that, my graduating GPA was nothing to write home about (interestingly, my semester in Japan was by far my best semester, although it was the hardest in many ways). Forget school for the moment, I want the experience of living in another country for an extended period of time simply because I think it will make me a better person. My parents started a trend that was unheard of in both of their families by moving from small town Oklahoma to Seattle, it's up to me to go even further.

[Taro Toporific]

[GargoyleTS]

My parents started a trend that was unheard of in both of their families by moving from small town Oklahoma to Seattle, it's up to me to go even further.

YAY!!!! Someone escaped! I am so happy for them! (now if only I can make it out of this hellhole!)

Seriously, I know one person who has left this state and managed never to return. Everyone else I know who got out has been dragged back to it.

Oklahoma! Black Hole of the US...you'll never get out!