Japan is like a stubborn old geezer...

[Taro Toporific]

[james]

he sounds jaded but that said, from a completely personal point of view, i don't completely disagree with him. there are lots of things to like and lots of things that really annoy and i've certainly reached a point where i wouldn't mind leaving but it won't be in any "fuck you" kind of way. the things that annoy are likely similar to what foreigners in other countries deal with, even if expressed differently. here, it's "can you use chopsticks?". in canuckistan, my friend would constantly be asked "can you eat pork?"

i imagine being a visible minority anywhere is a pain in the ass to some degree.

i'd say his analogy to a stubborn old geezer might not be too far off the mark though, for a very good reason - this country is overrun with them and run by far too many of them.

[Samurai_Jerk]

in canuckistan, my friend would constantly be asked "can you eat pork?"

Was your friend a Muslim?

If I'm cooking dinner and I know someone is a Muslim I think it's a fair question. If I'm just asking a dude because he looks like he could be an Arab and I've got nothing else to talk about I could see how that would be annoying.

EDIT:

By the way, I think MacArthur-shogun would be so proud to see that Japan has gone from petulant child to stubborn geezer.

[james]

Was your friend a Muslim?

syrian and indian mix iirc but only on the outside. born in canada, culturally he was as about as white anglo as they come, zero accent and it annoyed him no end to be asked these types of questions.

[Coligny]

Was your friend a Muslim?

If I'm cooking dinner and I know someone is a Muslim I think it's a fair question. If I'm just asking a dude because he looks like he could be an Arab and I've got nothing else to talk about I could see how that would be annoying.

+1

It's like asking someone if they eat fish, or bowels... Hell... they could even be DjOOze among your friends... Usually, the pork thing become more a psychological than religious thing.

[Samurai_Jerk]

syrian and indian mix iirc but only on the outside. born in canada, culturally he was as about as white anglo as they come, zero accent and it annoyed him no end to be asked these types of questions.

What inaka in Canada are you from? I can't imagine those kinds of questions would be too common in a city like Vancouver.

Anyhoo ....

One of of my best friends in college was a Japanese international student. He had a pretty strong accent so it was obvious he wasn't from the US originally. I was living at home so I invited him to a dinner party my dad had for some of his friends from work. One of them asked my Japanese friend what religion most people in Japan were. His answer was classic: Japanese religion is making money. I thought it was perfect because it was funny and also got him out of trying to explain the state of religion in Japan. You gotta love that Kansai wit.

[Dreamy_Peach]

Seems like quite an accurate description: an old man, stuck in his ways, resistant to change or anything substantially new or some new way of doing things, resigned to his fate and lacking in energy or passion for anything new.

I get this impression everyday.

That said, this Eric C has clearly still got Japan in his system. To have even left and then to continue writing about it and giving a shit about what is going on here (he still reads Debito) is not an indication of a "fuck off, I don't care" mentality.

All this racism that people complain about. I've never experienced it at any significant level, except being declined to some dh or some such services. You can get over it.

For the most part, I make more profit being in Japan than not being in it. Things piss me off no end but there's no point becoming obsessed with these things. You've got to just shrug your shoulders and do the old shoganai that the natives do; if not you'll end up like Debito. You just have to kind of insulate yourself against all the shit.

[Samurai_Jerk]

You've got to just shrug your shoulders and do the old shoganai that the natives do.

I have mixed feelings about this attitude. It's pretty much how I handle it but I think it's easy for me to be that way because I'm single, childless and don't believe I'll be here for life (though I very well could be). I've never psychologically committed myself to Japan and I don't think I'm unusual among the FG community.

A lot of gaijin complain about being treated like a permanent visitor but I think that if we're honest we have to admit that most of us see ourselves that way too. That could be a defense mechanism since we know deep down inside we'll never be one of "them" but how many of us really want to be? It's a chicken and egg question. Is our attitude the cause or the result? I doubt there's a clear answer.

Back to my original point which is something I've probably posted on here before. It's easy for me to just shrug it off and enjoy the perks of being an FG while ignoring the downside because I don't have a Japanese wife or Japanese kids. If I were married, owned a house and had kids who were born a raised Japanese but never seen at "normal" by a lot of society because they were mixed, I might shift my attitude and be more like Debito. Especially if I were to go as far as naturalizing as a Japanese citizen.

[maraboutslim]

I think Eric C is right on in his analysis. On the other hand, one of the things I liked about Japan and reasons I'll probably live there again in the future, is precisely because they'll always see me as an outsider.

In the usa, there is just so much constant pressure to be part of this community and that community and fit in here and there and work for the common goal and all that crap. It gets exhausting. And it requires you to associate with and pretend to like people who deep down you find quite vile, and these people assume that you are one of them and share their same bullshit views on life.

So though it may be a cop-out, life in Japan is free precisely because the expectations it places on its citizens do not extend to gaijin. We are free to do damn near whatever the fuck we want and it will not have any more of a negative effect on how we are treated or viewed in Japan than if we wasted every breathing moment trying to assimilate. One is free to be the only adult in a country of children run by stubborn old geezers.

I guess what I'm saying is that I personally feel no need to feel connected to a large group or to try to influence its trajectory. I didn't want to saddle my children with the burden of growing up in Japan, but I have no problem returning their without them and just living there as long as the basic positives of life continue.

It's easy to concentrate on the simple positives: the ease of transporting oneself around (i.e. without automobiles), the food, the sexual freedom, the lower percentage of disgusting fat people, the excellent music and art scenes, the good (and even great) surfing opportunities, the mountains and nature that I (unlike Eric C) actually find quite nice, the people who are at least friendly on the surface. All you need is an ipod to block out the sound, and good pair of sunglasses, and life is grand.

[Coligny]

So basically, you like it there because socially speaking fureigners being already at the bottom things can't get worse...

That's certainly an interesting view...

[matsuki]

I have mixed feelings about this attitude. It's pretty much how I handle it but I think it's easy for me to be that way because I'm single, childless and don't believe I'll be here for life (though I very well could be). I've never psychologically committed myself to Japan and I don't think I'm unusual among the FG community.

A lot of gaijin complain about being treated like a permanent visitor but I think that if we're honest we have to admit that most of us see ourselves that way too. That could be a defense mechanism since we know deep down inside we'll never be one of "them" but how many of us really want to be? It's a chicken and egg question. Is our attitude the cause or the result? I doubt there's a clear answer.

Back to my original point which is something I've probably posted on here before. It's easy for me to just shrug it off and enjoy the perks of being an FG while ignoring the downside because I don't have a Japanese wife or Japanese kids. If I were married, owned a house and had kids who were born a raised Japanese but never seen at "normal" by a lot of society because they were mixed, I might shift my attitude and be more like Debito. Especially if I were to go as far as naturalizing as a Japanese citizen.

THIS

So basically, you like it there because socially speaking fureigners being already at the bottom things can't get worse...

That's certainly an interesting view...

Have to agree here...and I would say that Japan is alot more demanding when it comes to community expectations. Ignoring those and doing your own thing just widens the gap further. With no family here, it may not be a big deal but once you've got a bigger stake here, it will be as your actions will certainly affect them...

[cstaylor]

[Coligny]

if the russian plane enter japanese waters I don'T think they are to be considered dangerous and they should send some coast guard ships to rescue the crew instead...

Now if that senile punk from Tokyp meant 'airspace' that could be a different matter...

Care to post the 9 and 14th ? i are not a scholar on japanese law aside from a mild interest on the road and traffic laws...

[cstaylor]

Care to post the 9 and 14th ? i are not a scholar on japanese law aside from a mild interest on the road and traffic laws...

Japanese Constitution in English

Aspiring sincerely to an international peace based on justice and order, the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes. 2) In order to accomplish the aim of the preceding paragraph, land, sea, and air forces, as well as other war potential, will never be maintained. The right of belligerency of the state will not be recognized.

All of the people are equal under the law and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or social relations because of race, creed, sex, social status or family origin. 2) Peers and peerage shall not be recognized. 3) No privilege shall accompany any award of honor, decoration or any distinction, nor shall any such award be valid beyond the lifetime of the individual who now holds or hereafter may receive it.

[maraboutslim]

So basically, you like it there because socially speaking fureigners being already at the bottom things can't get worse...

That's certainly an interesting view...

You may view it as "can't get any worse," but I see it as "can't get much better!" I mean, the people of Japan still provide me with sex, food, and casual conversation (sometimes all at once!) and I don't need any other sort of affirmation from other human beings to feel totally fulfilled in this life. I don't feel the need to "belong" and over here people are always trying to make you part of their team: it's a relief to be in Japan where they aren't constantly trying to get me to join and I can just be me.


Of course, I wasn't selfish enough to make my children suffer: I got them the hell out before school age. But as a 50-something single guy, I'm looking forward to spending 50% of my time in Japan (autumn and spring).

[matsuki]

Japanese Constitution in EnglishOriginally Posted by Article 14
All of the people are equal under the law and there shall be no discrimination in political, economic or social relations because of race, creed, sex, social status or family origin.

bwahahahahahaha, how often is this supposedly enforced?

[cstaylor]

bwahahahahahaha, how often is this supposedly enforced?

AFAIK, women are still enfranchised to vote, regardless of how Ishihara feels about it.

[matsuki]

AFAIK, women are still enfranchised to vote, regardless of how Ishihara feels about it.

LOL, I was more referring to FG discrimination but...

[cstaylor]

[matsuki]

[cstaylor]

Hahahahaha, and removing old people from the equation might actually remove Ishihara and his crew from power.

Yes, and good luck with that.

[matsuki]

Yes, and good luck with that.

Easy, take the warning labels off all the mochi

[cstaylor]

Easy, take the warning labels off all the mochi

Cruel, but effective.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Maybe you could use the oldies to make soylent green mochi?
It'd kill lots of birds with the single stone...and they'll play Peer Gynt for you when you agree to euthenasia.

[Dreamy_Peach]

Japanese Constitution in English

This Art. 14 business, I doubt how far this really goes. Just the fact that there are fewer female board members here in Japan than even the Middle East speaks volumes though.

If I had a daughter, I would want her to grow up hungry and ambitious without glass ceilings and tea making obligations of the cutesy OL.

Bringing her up in Japan and keeping her sensible with balls looks like it'd be a substantial challenge.

[GomiGirl]

This Art. 14 business, I doubt how far this really goes. Just the fact that there are fewer female board members here in Japan than even the Middle East speaks volumes though.

If I had a daughter, I would want her to grow up hungry and ambitious without glass ceilings and tea making obligations of the cutesy OL.

Bringing her up in Japan and keeping her sensible with balls looks like it'd be a substantial challenge.

Yes but the ones that do can jump over the buchos and straight up into the upper management positions. There are barely any women in the middle management levels but up at higher levels there are some super smart and savvy babes.

[james]