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Man files lawsuit against TEPCO following wife's suicide

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Man files lawsuit against TEPCO following wife's suicide

Postby IparryU » Sat May 19, 2012 4:55 pm

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Postby Iraira » Sat May 19, 2012 5:15 pm

IparryU wrote:source...


While I'm glad people are trying to punish TEPCO for their role in this, I'm wondering two things:
1) How they come up with the numbers. A 58-year old Hamako is worth 91 mil?
2) Assuming that TEPCO is paying out money for years and years on end to cover lawsuits and clean up, are they just gonna keep playing pass the buck and just continuously raise everyone's electricity rates?
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Postby Netherlander » Sat May 19, 2012 6:38 pm

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Postby IparryU » Sat May 19, 2012 7:28 pm

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Postby Netherlander » Sat May 19, 2012 8:02 pm

IparryU wrote:I would rather have all the reactors on.

All this anti-nuclear shenanigans is hype. Rather than pointing fingers at the reactor and saying that it is bad, how about solving the major issue... tsunami barriers, getting the survivors some support, proper maintenance, a responsible and liable utility, etc.

If people want the reactors off, they need to propose a cost efficient, and reliable source of energy.

PLEASE don't say wind turbines and solar panels...


I see you completely read into the pro-nuclear propaganda. :( What do we need these reactors for? :confused: I don't know where you live, but if the reactor in my area melts down I will be in the same heep of shit as the woman in the original post. I will loose everything my livilyhood my house...etc.... Maybe you can say what you say so easily because you can just pick up your shit and move but I and my neighbors can't.

Nuclear reactors are basically oversized water boilers. The fact is only 30 percent of Japan's power is supplied by the reactors. All we have to do is replace that 30%. The solution doesn't have to be one solution, like you mentioned. There are many other forms of power generation.
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Postby Russell » Sat May 19, 2012 8:27 pm

Netherlander wrote:I see you completely read into the pro-nuclear propaganda. :( What do we need these reactors for? :confused: I don't know where you live, but if the reactor in my area melts down I will be in the same heep of shit as the woman in the original post. I will loose everything my livelihood my house...etc.... Maybe you can say what you say so easily because you can just pick up your shit and move but I and my neighbors can't.

Nuclear reactors are basically oversized water boilers. The fact is only 30 percent of Japan's power is supplied by the reactors. All we have to do is replace that 30%. The solution doesn't have to be one solution, like you mentioned. There are many other forms of power generation.

YES!!!

And I would like to add that the cost-effectiveness of nuclear power is a myth. It is not possible to insure a nuclear plant against disasters, so if something goes wrong, the society takes the tab, like now is happening in Fukushima. If you count in all the costs of disasters, then suddenly nuclear power is not so cheap anymore.
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Postby IparryU » Sat May 19, 2012 8:46 pm

Netherlander wrote:I see you completely read into the pro-nuclear propaganda. :( What do we need these reactors for? :confused: I don't know where you live, but if the reactor in my area melts down I will be in the same heep of shit as the woman in the original post. I will loose everything my livilyhood my house...etc.... Maybe you can say what you say so easily because you can just pick up your shit and move but I and my neighbors can't.

Nuclear reactors are basically oversized water boilers. The fact is only 30 percent of Japan's power is supplied by the reactors. All we have to do is replace that 30%. The solution doesn't have to be one solution, like you mentioned. There are many other forms of power generation.

I haven't read any of the pro-nuclear propaganda... only the anti-nuclear cause it is all over JT (the only news I read cause it goes hand in hand with FG... ya I am an FG fanatic)

So where is this 30% coming from? Reminds me of uni when everyone would get high and drunk and start talking theory... all fun and games thinking of what can be done, but knowing how the J-govt acts and how the people bend over and take it so easily, the reactors aren't going to stop.

So will they or not?
http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2012/05/18/how-close-is-japan-to-pushing-the-on-button-on-reactors-2/
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Postby Yokohammer » Sat May 19, 2012 8:51 pm

Russell wrote:If you count in all the costs of disasters, then suddenly nuclear power is not so cheap anymore.

It's not cheap even if you ignore the disaster costs. The "nuclear power is clean and cheap" platform is built on a big pile of bullshit.
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Postby Netherlander » Sat May 19, 2012 9:04 pm

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Postby Coligny » Sat May 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Yokohammer wrote:It's not cheap even if you ignore the disaster costs. The "nuclear power is clean and cheap" platform is built on a big pile of [s]bullshit[/s] taxpayer money.

Fixed that for you...

Maybe if the current handling of the crisis and Tepco was not so openly "SUCKS TO BE YOU CITIZENS, HURRY UP AND PAY". But instead everyone had his nose drowned into his own poop and some people thrown in jail, maybe some restart for the safer plants would face less opposition... But the current mix of arrogance and incompetence from them japanese master race make it that a big "NOPE NOPITY NO" is totally understandable...
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Postby FG Lurker » Sat May 19, 2012 10:41 pm

Proper independent oversight needs to be put in place and the nuclear plants should be restarted. Older plants need to be retired as soon as possible and replaced with either safer nuclear generation (it does exist) or non-nuclear methods.

Immediately shutting off 30% of Japan's base power generation (and all of its reserve generation for peak times) is foolish. Japan's economy is already badly fucked up, pushing more jobs overseas and destroying Japan's trade surplus by dramatically increasing oil and gas imports are not what Japan needs.
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Postby canman » Sun May 20, 2012 8:46 am

Lurker, that is what I have been advocating for a long time. I keep reading all of the geniuses on Japan Today with their suggestions on how to cope with the possible coming electricity shortages, or what people can do to help the situation, but in my opinion these effects would be minimal at the most and most seem really annoying to carry out.
There seems to be this attitude that since TEPCO f#cked up, now the Japanese people have to learn how to do without, and suffer for the sake of TEPCO's mistakes. That seems really unfair and somewhat patronizing!
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Postby Coligny » Sun May 20, 2012 10:54 am

One other part of the problem is that we know the 30 % is said to be the part of the production potential output for nukular.

Lots of numbers are missing. And there is not a single reliable source for them.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun May 20, 2012 12:23 pm

FG Lurker wrote:Proper independent oversight needs to be put in place and the nuclear plants should be restarted. Older plants need to be retired as soon as possible and replaced with either safer nuclear generation (it does exist) or non-nuclear methods.

Immediately shutting off 30% of Japan's base power generation (and all of its reserve generation for peak times) is foolish. Japan's economy is already badly fucked up, pushing more jobs overseas and destroying Japan's trade surplus by dramatically increasing oil and gas imports are not what Japan needs.


Word. I like the way Netherlander says "only 30 percent" as if that were an insignificant number.
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Postby Coligny » Sun May 20, 2012 2:18 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:Word. I like the way Netherlander says "only 30 percent" as if that were an insignificant number.


Because 30% of the max power production capability don't mean 30% of the peak power used... or 30% the peak power needed.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun May 20, 2012 2:34 pm

Coligny wrote:Because 30% of the max power production capability don't mean 30% of the peak power used... or 30% the peak power needed.


And your point is?
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun May 20, 2012 3:02 pm

One of the unsolved problems with nuclear power, and a significant hidden cost, is how to dispose of the spent fuel. The pro-nuclear crowd hate to talk about this because there is no solution. Thus far, the human race has not come up with a clean, cost-effective way to dispose of spent nuclear fuel. There is no technology to neutralize it, at least on a sufficient scale, so the current interim stopgap measure is to store it somewhere, usually underground. And it really is nothing more than a stopgap measure. Nuclear power development has jumped the gun, with the assumption that "we're smart, we need nuclear power now, so we'll figure out how to dispose of our fatally radioactive trash someday." But so far nothing.

Spent fuel has to be stored in secure managed facilities that continue to cost money for ... well, indefinitely. It cannot simply be buried on a remote island somewhere and left alone. Someone could always come along and dig it up (think "dirty bombs"), or there could be a natural disaster of some sort that exposes the buried fuel, and there we have another nice radioactive plume enveloping the planet. This is not a small deal. It costs a fortune to keep nuclear refuse safe, and there is no end in sight. This is a very real part of the cost of nuclear energy. Not to mention the fact that each new spent nuclear fuel dump is another piece of the planet that is now useless for anything else.

The same goes for decommissioning nuclear plants. You can't just lock the door and walk away. Think decades and decades of cleanup, or more likely, another piece of the planet that can no longer be used for anything else with an ongoing and not-insiginificant price tag.

It's easy enough to come up with figures that "prove" how clean and cheap nuclear power is if you leave all of this, plus the potential cost of accidents, out of the equation.
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Postby Coligny » Sun May 20, 2012 4:07 pm

To add to Yokahaman

The industry always operated on the lie that part of the profit resulting from the exploitation would be kept to pay for decomissionning the plants.

I somehow don't think enough (or any money) has been kept aside... and when time come to decomission... you can bet that the looters will be nowhere to be found...
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun May 20, 2012 4:43 pm

Coligny wrote:To add to Yokahaman

The industry always operated on the lie that part of the profit resulting from the exploitation would be kept to pay for decomissionning the plants.

I somehow don't think enough (or any money) has been kept aside... and when time come to decomission... you can bet that the looters will be nowhere to be found...


We may need to look for a better way to produce electricity but shutting down all the reactors and putting the nation into a trade deficit that could seriously hurt an economy that is already hanging by a thread before coming up with a viable alternative ain't the answer.
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Postby Russell » Sun May 20, 2012 6:10 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:We may need to look for a better way to produce electricity but shutting down all the reactors and putting the nation into a trade deficit that could seriously hurt an economy that is already hanging by a thread before coming up with a viable alternative ain't the answer.

A trade deficit is not necessarily bad. After decades, it may finally put some pressure on the value of the Yen...
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Postby Coligny » Sun May 20, 2012 7:26 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:We may need to look for a better way to produce electricity but shutting down all the reactors and putting the nation into a trade deficit that could seriously hurt an economy that is already hanging by a thread before coming up with a viable alternative ain't the answer.


It's a bit surrealistic. On one side we got the shut down all plants, but if it's clearly an over reaction from a technical standpoint, judging by the level of incompetence shown by the companies and governement... even in a state of cold shutdown, you can wonder if it's really safe.

On the other side... you worry for the trade balance... wtf !?

I mean, sure, the plant are as safe as they were before... but they are also as dangerous as they were before... and we now know for sure that when/if something goes wrong... it's going to be really bad again... We sort of rode the wave -for now- this time... For the next time... we can count only on luck....
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Postby FG Lurker » Sun May 20, 2012 7:56 pm

I don't have a problem with the idea of moving away from nuclear as it exists in Japan today. In fact I think we definitely need to move away from current nuclear power generation technology.

What we are seeing now though is a very typical Japanese pendulum swing. At first (and generally for a very long time) absolutely nothing is done. Then some sort of trigger event takes place and things swing completely to the opposite extreme. Drunk driving is a good example that comes to mind. Until 6 or 7 years ago (10 years?) it was nearly a sport to see how much a person could drink and still drive themselves home (I exaggerate, but not by much...) Today you can't have a single (small) glass of wine and drive home 2 hours later without serious risk of legal trouble if you get stopped. Clearly the way things were was not acceptable but there really should be a happy medium in there where you can have a drink with dinner and drive home a couple hours later.

Back to nuclear power generation, the idea of moving away from the technology in use in Japan is great, and is something that should be done. However going to the complete extreme of shutting everything down immediately and trying to change the direction of Japanese power generation on a dime is not realistic.

For future power generation Japan should invest substantially in promising power generation technologies to allow the country to migrate away from current nuclear power generation in an orderly manner. Rather than me going on about what is available, Bill Gates gave an excellent talk on this subject at TED2010:

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Postby Coligny » Sun May 20, 2012 8:02 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:And your point is?


Good question...i think it was against your consideration of the 30% number.

if you turn on all plant in japan and crank them to the max, looking at the spread give you a repartition 30% nukular, 70% other means of production.

But we don't know in absolute value what quantity is needed... therefore the 30% number means next to nothing...

wait... what was my point already ?
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun May 20, 2012 9:44 pm

Is he going to tell us about the future of tablet computing? Let me get my stylus ready...
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Postby Coligny » Sun May 20, 2012 10:58 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:Is he going to tell us about the future of tablet computing? Let me get my stylus ready...


The problem with anything that could be proposed by Gates is that this son of a bitch would gladly sell turd sandwiches to make a buck while making sure that nobody else can make sandwiches...

So even if he have good ideas... it's no better than al Gore and global warming. Sure the situation have to be dealt with... but his carbon credit thingamabob solve only one problem... making him some molah while not having to do any real work...
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon May 21, 2012 12:29 am

Coligny wrote:The problem with anything that could be proposed by Gates is that this son of a bitch would gladly sell turd sandwiches to make a buck while making sure that nobody else can make sandwiches...

Gates doesn't give a flying fuck about making money. The man has given away 28 billion dollars. If not for his donations he'd very likely have a fortune of over $100 billion now.

red snot from some anon user with no balls wrote:bill gates = self-aggrandanzing scumbag

Come talk to me when you've done a millionth of what Gates has accomplished.
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Postby cstaylor » Mon May 21, 2012 12:38 am

FG Lurker wrote:Gates doesn't give a flying fuck about making money. The man has given away 28 billion dollars. If not for his donations he'd very likely have a fortune of over $100 billion now.

He's done far more than that. He's involved himself heavily in the causes he champions. One of his great success stories is how he's worked closely with Rotary International to combat polio worldwide.
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Postby FG Lurker » Mon May 21, 2012 12:48 am

cstaylor wrote:He's done far more than that. He's involved himself heavily in the causes he champions. One of his great success stories is how he's worked closely with Rotary International to combat polio worldwide.

Yes, he works full time on these sorts of things, with a heavy emphasis on vaccinations and seeds, funding much of the work with his own money. I only mentioned the money as Coligny seems to think Gates is trying to make money rather than working to give away pretty much every penny he has ever made.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Mon May 21, 2012 1:02 am

Coligny wrote:The problem with anything that could be proposed by Gates is that this son of a bitch would gladly sell turd sandwiches to make a buck while making sure that nobody else can make sandwiches...

So even if he have good ideas... it's no better than al Gore and global warming. Sure the situation have to be dealt with... but his carbon credit thingamabob solve only one problem... making him some molah while not having to do any real work...


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Postby FG Lurker » Mon May 21, 2012 1:05 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:Your ignorance is astounding.

Yeah, I am starting to see what pissed that other user off. I forget what his name was now, the guy that coligny hates so much. Edit: I think his ID was "Damn Name".
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