No Irish Eyes smiling here...

[progaijin]

Quite a sad time we live in, when an Irish English teacher is given the textbook of a High School she teaches in, and is directed to learn an American accent as well as American culture. In order to satisfy the Kocho, who is apparently unaware that other countries DO in fact speak English, she has to forget her Irish background and play the role of a stereotype.

[AssKissinger]

That's really sad. I hope you have the good sense to ignore his moronic instructions and do it your way. Are you new to Japan? If so, please take this advice, when a JPN higher up gives you an asinine intruction like that, just say "Hai, Hai" and then go on to do whatever the hell you want. Also, please don't hold this kind of idiocy against Americans. It's totally out of our hands. If it's any consolation we're a lot less popular than we used to be.

[maraboutslim]

As an Irish American, I'm all for the Irish, but you have to admit that from a practical point of view, the students would be better off learning the language as it is spoken by Americans in the western usa since that is the country/economy with which they will, on average, have the most contact. I mean, would you want your Japanese teacher to teach you Kyushu-ben and the culture of Kyushu or the more useful standard Japanese as spoken in Tokyo?

But the advice to simply ignore the request is quite good. It's exactly what a Japanese teacher would do. So, when in Rome...

[ramchop]

As an Irish American, I'm all for the Irish, but you have to admit that from a practical point of view, the students would be better off learning the language as it is spoken by Americans in the western usa since that is the country/economy with which they will, on average, have the most contact.

So Californian American English is the new international standard?

From a practical point of view, it doesn't matter what accent you teach in, as your students, on average will never seriously use English anyway.

[AssKissinger]

As an Irish American, I'm all for the Irish, but you have to admit that from a practical point of view, the students would be better off learning the language as it is spoken by Americans in the western usa since that is the country/economy with which they will, on average, have the most contact. I mean, would you want your Japanese teacher to teach you Kyushu-ben and the culture of Kyushu or the more useful standard Japanese as spoken in Tokyo?

But the advice to simply ignore the request is quite good. It's exactly what a Japanese teacher would do. So, when in Rome...

I knew a nice Aussie guy, a fine teacher, who lost his job for not sounding American enough, at some shit eikawa.

The reason why I disagree with your above post is that the students aren't ever gonna really sound like any native speaker from anywhere. I've been to Ireland and have gaijin friends from everywhere and the truth is our English dialects aren't that different. The students would have to get to a very high level before this could possibly be an issue. They're always gonna be Japs speaking English and that's how they'll always sound no matter who teaches them or what techniques are used. ESL is about teaching them to communicate internationally. It's more likely that they'll be using English to talk to Koreans or Chinese than Californians. And if progaijin teaches them so well they actually understand 'Irish English', as if that were a different language, I'm sure the Californians will take to them quite nicely.

Also, if they decide to hire a non-American how can they be so moronic to complain that they don't sound American? I can't possibly imagine myself in front of the class trying to sound Irish! I'd sound like a stupid Yank for sure, "Hello! How's the craic?" First, it's insulting and second unless you're some kind of professional impersonator or actor it's unrealistic if not impossible.

[maraboutslim]

Yes, what you want to call Californian English (technically the "mid-west" dialect of American English) is the world standard, thanks to Hollywood and the Silicon Valley and CNN (may be in Atlanta but it doesn't sound like it) and so on...

But natives of British English should remember that most Japanese travel to the states and conduct business with Americans and you'll be doing your students no favor if go teaching them that they ride up to the 10th floor in a lift or that they should ask their taxi driver to put their bags in the boot and ask the mechanic to check under the bonnet or ask the hotel concierge where they can buy some fags! And be sure to teach them what "freeze" means, when said by an American police officer.

[AssKissinger]

Those are some good examples Slim, but the truth is you can teach the differences between American and British English in a single lesson.

[Big Booger]

Why did they hire an Irish if they wanted them to speak "American" English?

I'd tell them to suck my nutts.. if they asked me to speak any differently than I do... I'd be sure to break them down on the ben gibberish too.. I'm sorry, you speak Kansai-ben.. could you start speaking kanto-ben around me thanks.

The goal is to give students the tools they need to speak in a way that is appropriate to where they are going.

I'd quit before I gave up my culture.. for some pisswad kocho..

[japslapper]

A good "English" teacher will be ensuring students listen to as many dialects as possible - there is no world standard English - there are many dialects. CNN and BBC might be major - but world wide their are at least 500 dialects - and at least 5 distinct grammer patterns. The biggest English speaking country (population) is infact India!

In Japan - specially JHS/SHS (JET?) Engrish is a joke - its more usefull to look at the the Japan-rest of world interface than language.

Its sad really Japan and their brand mentallity - they have Stars and Stripes or Union Jacks everywhere on everything but .......and even then they can't tell which one is American........

This book should sort it out for you....


and of course dont get me on the "gaijin = english" thing....

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4084

[Snapped]

But natives of British English should remember that most Japanese travel to the states and conduct business with Americans and you'll be doing your students no favor if go teaching them that they ride up to the 10th floor in a lift or that they should ask their taxi driver to put their bags in the boot and ask the mechanic to check under the bonnet or ask the hotel concierge where they can buy some fags! And be sure to teach them what "freeze" means, when said by an American police officer.

What a load of old rubbish. Japanese student do just find with British English teachers. What about the (admitedly smaller but still sizable) group who travel to the UK or Ireland? How are they going to understand what is said to them if they don't know such word as "lift", "boot", "fags"?

[maraboutslim]

Next you'll be telling me they should stop calling it soccer and start calling it football, ha! (though to set the record straight, it was the English who coined the phrase "soccer", not the Americans)

Seriously though, the reason one is better off learning the English of CNN and Hollywood is that everyone who speaks English on the planet is exposed to that language, its idioms and pronunciation. The opposite is not true since, say, Ireland, does not export much culture these days. A person from Mississippi has a much easier time understanding a Californian than the reverse. A person from Tohoku can understand Tokyo Japanese just fine but the average Tokyo person has trouble with Tohoku-ben of course. And yes, the Indians have a much easier time understanding Americans than the reverse.

Sure, any serious student of English should learn the differences between British English, Irish English, and Mid-West, Southern, New England and New York American English, etc. These things can not be taught in one lesson! Hell, I've been hanging around Australian surfers for decades and still have no idea what the hell they are talking about half the time, ha!

So if the Japanese are going to know one word for tobacco, it's more appropriate for it to be cigarette than fag. If they travel to the UK, people still know what a cigarette is. If they travel to the states, "fag" just isn't going to get the job done.


I learned Spanish growing up in California. It would have been absolutely inappropriate to have given us a teacher from Spain who wasn't committed to teaching us Spanish as spoken in Mexico, which is what we need to know here. I also remember feeling slightly odd when my German teacher in university wasn't German.

Like I said, the accent isn't a problem, but you do your students no favors by refusing to teach them standard English as understood by the Japanese. Even if you doubt such a thing exists, the Japanese have decided otherwise and you are there as their guest and employee and should play along with what they are paying for.

[American Oyaji]

yeah

[Caustic Saint]

I've run into more teachers from Canada than anywhere else here in Korea. In the last city I worked in, 99% of the teachers I met were either from the US or Canada, with the remaining 1% being split among the Kiwis, Aussied and UK teachers.

My new town is much different. I went out to a going away for a couple teachers last night and the North American teachers were a minority. How cool is that?! A few from the UK and a batch from Oz and New Zealand.

I think it's great for foreign speakers to not have the North American accent. The language differences (fag/cigarette, soccer/football) are easy enough to work around, so what difference does the accent make? I like hearing English spoken with different accents. I used to work with a Korean teacher who spent a number of years in England and she was a blast. She'd lived there long enough that she had a strong accent, complete with slang and mannerisms. It was so funny to see her get ticked at the students. "OY! Don't be so bloody stupid!"

[Snapped]

So if the Japanese are going to know one word for tobacco, it's more appropriate for it to be cigarette than fag. If they travel to the UK, people still know what a cigarette is. If they travel to the states, "fag" just isn't going to get the job done.

Hang on a minute. You're confusing whether we should teach British English or British slang. Of course I won't teach Japanese students to say "fag" when they mean cigarette. "Fag" isn't standard British English. However, when I teach English, I'm not going to abandon my identity and start using American words or put on an American accent. That's just not going to work. Standard British English works perfectly well in an international context. What Japanese (or any other nationality) need to do first and foremost is to make themselves generally understood, before they start aiming for any kind of particular accent.

(Edited for spelling.)

[kotatsuneko]

youre not the only one from the emerald isle suffering..:

http://www.eltnews.com/community/?board=jobs;action=display;num=1063426162

amazing how a good many of the "teachers" try and sneak as much free conversation b4/after lessons then during the lessons suddenly dont understand my london accent..

tomato?football? etc , hilarous when the kids have no problem , but they just love being awkward, the teachers that is.. excellent fun now, as i've become the most popular foreign teacher the office employs so the nasty ppl i complained about now have to co operate very bloody much... ! specially as the kids request me a lot, and a few even wrote could i be there instead of the regular teacher ^^

i dont class myself as a teacher - its not a job i spent years training for, and have every respect fot "real" teachers = not nova/alt rats.... i know most ppl dont like dealing with kids, but i find myself on the most part having more fun inside the class than outside.. now if i could just get some more money! have reached the salary ceiling... maybe ill try for a nursery full time job, tho hear ppl just dont seem to leave those jobs..

err anyhow, chin up, what? ! it worked for me, so i also say adapt ideas that work for the kids, get them on your side, make em laugh , do your best getting them to have fun first, and learning new stuff second, if they can gain confidence in speaking to you, relax and enjoy the lessons theres no way the admin or j teachers can touch you!

[kotatsuneko]

http://mcentyre.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=230

seems inevitable the story would end up here, its been discussed /derided all over the place already...

[Caustic Saint]

I recently encountered an unusual reverse to this situation in my town. It seems there's a school here that only hires teachers from Ireland. I was surprised to hear that, since the NA accent is the one everybody seems to want here. I'm not sure what their reasoning is, as I've only met a couple teachers from the school and haven't had a chance to talk with them at any length yet. My curiosity is piqued though, and I'll be finding out all I can.