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Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:20 pm

Vehicles trapped after Yamanashi expressway tunnel caves in
An unknown number of vehicles were ablaze after a 100-meter section of an expressway tunnel caved in on Sunday, police said, as a full-scale emergency operation swung into action.

At least three vehicles were crushed and three people were injured in the accident in the tunnel in Otsuki, Yamanashi Prefecture, public broadcaster NHK said.

The accident occurred on Tokyo-bound lanes inside the Sasago tunnel on the Chuo Expressway, some 80 kilometers west of Tokyo at around 8 a.m., an official at the expressway traffic police unit told AFP.

“We don’t know exactly how many vehicles are on fire,” he said by telephone.

NHK footage from inside the tunnel showed a white ambulance and several firefighters wearing protective gear, working in an section shrouded in white smoke. A number of cars with lights flashing were also seen.

A 28-year-old woman was taken to hospital by ambulance after she emerged from the 4.3-kilometer-long tunnel by herself, the traffic police official said.

NHK said two other women were rescued from inside the tunnel and that the extent of their injuries was unknown.

A reporter for NHK said he happened to be driving through the tunnel on his way to Tokyo when it started to disintegrate.

“I managed to drive through the tunnel but vehicles nearby appeared to have been trapped,” he said. “Black smoke was coming and there seemed to be a fire inside the tunnel.”

The thick smoke inside the tunnel was hampering rescuers’ attempts to reach the caved-in point, some two kilometers from the Tokyo-side exit, a local fire department official said.

“The tunnel’s smoke ventilation system is malfunctioning and we can’t see anything one meter in front,” Kazuya Tezuka told AFP by telephone.

Aerial footage on NHK showed several red trucks from the local fire department waiting outside the Tokyo side of the tunnel.

Dozens of people were seen waiting at an expressway bus stop just outside the exit, and were believed to have exited from the tunnel, NHK said.

The 28-year-old women who made her way out of the tunnel told the fire rescue unit she had been riding in a rented van with five other people, Tezuka said.

“I have no idea about what happened to the five others. I don’t know how many vehicles were ahead and behind ours,” she was quoted as saying.

A man in his 30s, who was just 50 meters ahead of the caved-in spot when the accident happened, told NHK: “A concrete part of the ceiling fell off all of a sudden when I was driving inside. I saw a fire coming from a crushed car. I was so frightened I got out my car right away and walked one hour to get outside.”

“The traffic was not so heavy,” he added.

A stream of people was seen coming out of the other exit after abandoning their vehicles in the tunnel, NHK said.

Smoke ventiation system malfunctioning. Who wants to bet it was never, ever maintained. Kinda like elevators and nuclear power plants. "Maintenance is not part of Japanese culture"... :roll:
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Tsuru » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:31 pm

But wait... aren't the Japanese supposed to be pathological about fire safety?
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Yokohammer » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:32 pm

There was just a newsflash that they've found a number of burned bodies in the tunnel.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Coligny » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:44 pm

Tsuru wrote:But wait... aren't the Japanese supposed to be pathological about fire safety?


pathologic... yes...

safe or efficient... not so much.... (how are your toyu syockpiles guys ?)
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby kagemusha » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:33 pm

I might be wrong, but it seems to me that in Japan, during emergencies, there are very few cases of people risking their lives and trying to help others, especially strangers.
I remember that it took me a long time to find such cases covering the Tohoku disaster compared with other similar incidents in other countries.
But then again, it is just a feeling not based on hard data.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:45 pm

Burned bodies found after Japanese tunnel collapse
apanese highway police found "several" burned bodies inside a vehicle after a tunnel collapsed about 80 kilometers (50 miles) west of Tokyo.

At least two cars remained trapped Sunday after the tunnel collapse, according to the East Yamanashi Fire Department. Fire officials said the section of concrete that fell was about 50 to 60 meters long and about 20 centimeters (8 inches) thick...
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Coligny » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:57 pm

kagemusha wrote:I might be wrong, but it seems to me that in Japan, during emergencies, there are very few cases of people risking their lives and trying to help others, especially strangers.
I remember that it took me a long time to find such cases covering the Tohoku disaster compared with other similar incidents in other countries.
But then again, it is just a feeling not based on hard data.


in case of tunnel fire the only thing to do is get the fuck out as fast as possible. You're not going to be able to help anyone, just be one more corpse...
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby legion » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:11 pm

I use that road, and I already feel nervous enough going through those tunnels, especially the long ones. They do have emergency exits at regular intervals, I hope I never need one.

Be thankful for small mercies, if it had happened on a Sunday afternoon the tunnel would have been packed. The traffic doesn't grind to a halt inside but there are times when you go through at about 30 clicks.

There will be questions on safety checks.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Coligny » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:19 pm

wonder if shockwave from custom truck exhaust pipes can be linked with added material fatigue...
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Dec 02, 2012 7:35 pm

Might be salty sand dredged from the ocean used in concrete mix...hard on the rebar. Didn't that happen with some train tunnels a few years back?
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby wagyl » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:14 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:Might be salty sand dredged from the ocean used in concrete mix...hard on the rebar. Didn't that happen with some train tunnels a few years back?

That was the Sanyo Shinkansen. I don't think the Inland Sea sand would have been transported to Yamanashi.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby kagemusha » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:20 pm

Coligny wrote:
in case of tunnel fire the only thing to do is get the fuck out as fast as possible. You're not going to be able to help anyone, just be one more corpse...


You know I love you like the crazy French friend I have never had but I have to disagree.
We are not talking about a major disaster scene from a B movie.Ordinary people have pulled out amazing deeds of caring for others while risking their own lives.
The thing is, if a woman that went out of the tunnel saying she doesn't know what happened to the other guys who've been in THE SAME CAR WITH HER, I get a strange feeling that caring for others is not a top priority for her.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Mike Oxlong » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:32 pm

wagyl wrote:
Mike Oxlong wrote:Might be salty sand dredged from the ocean used in concrete mix...hard on the rebar. Didn't that happen with some train tunnels a few years back?

That was the Sanyo Shinkansen. I don't think the Inland Sea sand would have been transported to Yamanashi.

You're right. It would be almost as ridiculous as sending disaster debris from Tohoku to Kyushu. I mean, the only one's who'd benefit from the crazy costs would be transport companies. :shroom: [/sarcastic SOB mode]
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby wagyl » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:57 pm

Especially because Kyushu sends it back!
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Coligny » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:31 pm

wagyl wrote:Especially because Kyushu sends it back!



It's not because you are not part of the solution that no money can't be made from the problem...
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby legion » Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:32 pm

kagemusha wrote:You know I love you like the crazy French friend I have never had but I have to disagree.
We are not talking about a major disaster scene from a B movie.Ordinary people have pulled out amazing deeds of caring for others while risking their own lives.
The thing is, if a woman that went out of the tunnel saying she doesn't know what happened to the other guys who've been in THE SAME CAR WITH HER, I get a strange feeling that caring for others is not a top priority for her.


She was probably terrified and ran for her life. None of us know how we would react to such a situation.

It is a good idea to plan what you will do in any eventuality in advance, because when things do get bad you often don't act as you imagine you would. A lot of people freeze. People with military training often survive because they know they can change their situation for the better.

I am not looking forward to my next trip up the Chuo.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:21 pm

legion wrote:
kagemusha wrote:You know I love you like the crazy French friend I have never had but I have to disagree.
We are not talking about a major disaster scene from a B movie.Ordinary people have pulled out amazing deeds of caring for others while risking their own lives.
The thing is, if a woman that went out of the tunnel saying she doesn't know what happened to the other guys who've been in THE SAME CAR WITH HER, I get a strange feeling that caring for others is not a top priority for her.


She was probably terrified and ran for her life. None of us know how we would react to such a situation.

It is a good idea to plan what you will do in any eventuality in advance, because when things do get bad you often don't act as you imagine you would. A lot of people freeze. People with military training often survive because they know they can change their situation for the better.

I am not looking forward to my next trip up the Chuo.


I agree with you that we have no idea what we're going to do till we're in a situation like that and I don't think we should criticize individuals when their instinct says flight instead of fight. However, I also agree with kagemusha that you don't hear many tales of heroics when the shit hits the fan here.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby matsuki » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:47 pm

Tsuru wrote:But wait... aren't the Japanese supposed to be pathological about fire safety?


Ever been to ドンキー before?

Image

kagemusha wrote:
Coligny wrote:
in case of tunnel fire the only thing to do is get the fuck out as fast as possible. You're not going to be able to help anyone, just be one more corpse...


You know I love you like the crazy French friend I have never had but I have to disagree.
We are not talking about a major disaster scene from a B movie.Ordinary people have pulled out amazing deeds of caring for others while risking their own lives.
The thing is, if a woman that went out of the tunnel saying she doesn't know what happened to the other guys who've been in THE SAME CAR WITH HER, I get a strange feeling that caring for others is not a top priority for her.


Yeah...I mean, it is hard to generalize on a situation without knowing all the facts but to go sprinting out of there without your FIVE companions :shake: WTF?

From what it reads like, all they needed to do was open one of the nearby doors that leads to the tunnel next door....which begs the question, why they would do that and then "walk" out instead of flag someone down for a ride :roll:
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Coligny » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:51 pm

kagemusha wrote:
Coligny wrote:
in case of tunnel fire the only thing to do is get the fuck out as fast as possible. You're not going to be able to help anyone, just be one more corpse...


You know I love you like the crazy French friend I have never had but I have to disagree.
We are not talking about a major disaster scene from a B movie.Ordinary people have pulled out amazing deeds of caring for others while risking their own lives.
The thing is, if a woman that went out of the tunnel saying she doesn't know what happened to the other guys who've been in THE SAME CAR WITH HER, I get a strange feeling that caring for others is not a top priority for her.


3 things here:

1- I don't contest the fact that most of the time in Nagoya I see "every man for himself" behaviour. With people gleefully ignoring what's hapenning by looking busy doing whatever else. Toyohashi always gave me the impression of being a bit more... let say intrusive...

2- I maintain, that heroism in a tunnel filling with smoke is a double plus ungood idea. For the same reason airplane safety video tells you to always put oxygen mask to yourself then help the others... Smoke from car fires suffocate you real fast... oxygen leave real quick... after mah near death experiment while painting my car rear wing with rattle can spray paint in my 12mats workshop, despite some exhaust fans, I had 3 seconds top between realizing that the gaz heater shutdown because of lack of oxygen, starting to have my field of vision reduce to nothing, luckily, I modified the door handle so she never lock and is always free to be pushed to open, because I barely made it to the door before colapsing and pushing it open with my forehead bringing fresh air back inside.
Also ask Taro what he thinks aboot tunnel ventilation in japan, even without fire...

3- are you hitting on meeee ? if yes... we can continue in PM...
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Coligny » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:00 pm

chokonen888 wrote:From what it reads like, all they needed to do was open one of the nearby doors that leads to the tunnel next door....which begs the question, why they would do that and then "walk" out instead of flag someone down for a ride :roll:



One second your cruising in the comfort of your car watching some skinflick on the TV, the next one, the windows are broken, there is draft, noise, smoke, bad smell... In these case "all they needed to do" become really lost. Usually, in case of shit hitting the fan, reflex kicks in... If your training include survival skills and knowledge of how to recognise the threat, what really happen in tunnel fire, what to do, and... where you are... then you have better chances... But in a country where you are told to put a blanket on your head in case of earthquake and radioactivity can be fought with a smile... Nothing good can happen... Plus... Don't know for youz... but when I drive mominlaw somewhere I tend to be hyper soft and smooth, meaning usually 3 minutes into the ride she's already sleeping like a baby... try going from sleeping to heel break loose and tell us how it works...

From your background and your previous rides, I'm pretty sure that you are used to minor crash and accident, therefore you know what to do (been there, done that syndrome) but for most people, car accident worse than fender benders are unknown territory...
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby yanpa » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:38 pm

chokonen888 wrote:From what it reads like, all they needed to do was open one of the nearby doors that leads to the tunnel next door....which begs the question, why they would do that and then "walk" out instead of flag someone down for a ride :roll:


Stoopid question, does this particular tunnel have a parallel tunnel to which one can escape?
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby yanpa » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:47 pm

yanpa wrote:
chokonen888 wrote:From what it reads like, all they needed to do was open one of the nearby doors that leads to the tunnel next door....which begs the question, why they would do that and then "walk" out instead of flag someone down for a ride :roll:


Stoopid question, does this particular tunnel have a parallel tunnel to which one can escape?


Evidently (item 11):
sasago-tunnel-diagram.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby matsuki » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:51 pm

Coligny wrote:
chokonen888 wrote:From what it reads like, all they needed to do was open one of the nearby doors that leads to the tunnel next door....which begs the question, why they would do that and then "walk" out instead of flag someone down for a ride :roll:



One second your cruising in the comfort of your car watching some skinflick on the TV, the next one, the windows are broken, there is draft, noise, smoke, bad smell... In these case "all they needed to do" become really lost. Usually, in case of shit hitting the fan, reflex kicks in... If your training include survival skills and knowledge of how to recognise the threat, what really happen in tunnel fire, what to do, and... where you are... then you have better chances... But in a country where you are told to put a blanket on your head in case of earthquake and radioactivity can be fought with a smile... Nothing good can happen...


That was the point I was hinting at though...all the flow charts and safety driving tips in the cuntry aren't nearly as useful as some logical thinking on the fly. It might not be the first thing that comes to mind but if one of these tunnels looked like it was caving in and I saw fire. My first reaction is to get me (and my buddies) out of the car and running the other way. I wouldn't go to help those crushed/or severely on fire for the very reasons you mentioned BUT if, on the way out, I see someone trapped in their car or something, it isn't unreasonable to Hulk smash a window and get them out. Anyhow, during the fleeing the other way, all it would take is passing a door to the other tunnel to notice that it's possible to cross there and it may be a good idea to see if that side is safe....and then when you see that it is, flag someone down to give you a ride the fuck out of there.

Sorta on topic but, WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS IN THIS CUNTRY? I understand for something like a shinkansen that should be kept as straight as possible but it can't possible be cheaper to swiss cheese a mountain than to just go around it.

Coligny wrote:From your background and your previous rides, I'm pretty sure that you are used to minor crash and accident, therefore you know what to do (been there, done that syndrome) but for most people, car accident worse than fender benders are unknown territory...


:oops: teehee
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby yanpa » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:59 pm

chokonen888 wrote:
Sorta on topic but, WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS IN THIS CUNTRY? I understand for something like a shinkansen that should be kept as straight as possible but it can't possible be cheaper to swiss cheese a mountain than to just go around it.


'Cos THERE ARE SO MANY FUCKING MOUNTAINS IN THIS CUNTRY.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby matsuki » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:30 pm

yanpa wrote:
chokonen888 wrote:
Sorta on topic but, WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS IN THIS CUNTRY? I understand for something like a shinkansen that should be kept as straight as possible but it can't possible be cheaper to swiss cheese a mountain than to just go around it.


'Cos THERE ARE SO MANY FUCKING MOUNTAINS IN THIS CUNTRY.


Image

:wink:
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby yanpa » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:41 pm

chokonen888 wrote:
yanpa wrote:
chokonen888 wrote:
Sorta on topic but, WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS IN THIS CUNTRY? I understand for something like a shinkansen that should be kept as straight as possible but it can't possible be cheaper to swiss cheese a mountain than to just go around it.


'Cos THERE ARE SO MANY FUCKING MOUNTAINS IN THIS CUNTRY.


Image

:wink:


Ah yes, Switzerland, a country famous for its total lack of tunnels as its inhabitants prefer a long, slow snaking drive (but cheaper to build!) over its mountains.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:42 pm

yanpa wrote:
chokonen888 wrote:
Sorta on topic but, WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS IN THIS CUNTRY? I understand for something like a shinkansen that should be kept as straight as possible but it can't possible be cheaper to swiss cheese a mountain than to just go around it.


'Cos THERE ARE SO MANY FUCKING MOUNTAINS IN THIS CUNTRY.


I come from mountain country in the US and there aren't that many tunnels. Roads tend to go over or around rather than under the mountains. I'm not saying one is better than the other but I am saying that mountains don't necessarily equal lots o' tunnels.
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby yanpa » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:06 pm

Samurai_Jerk wrote:
yanpa wrote:
chokonen888 wrote:
Sorta on topic but, WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING TUNNELS IN THIS CUNTRY? I understand for something like a shinkansen that should be kept as straight as possible but it can't possible be cheaper to swiss cheese a mountain than to just go around it.


'Cos THERE ARE SO MANY FUCKING MOUNTAINS IN THIS CUNTRY.


I come from mountain country in the US and there aren't that many tunnels. Roads tend to go over or around rather than under the mountains. I'm not saying one is better than the other but I am saying that mountains don't necessarily equal lots o' tunnels.


That is probably the case if your topography resembles the face of a pimply youth, where you have plenty of space to build around the bits of rock sticking up, but in my layperson's opinion much of Japan looks like the face of a 90 year old woman who's spend her working life out in the sun. Lots of long ridges and steep-sided, narrow valleys. Going "around" the mountains isn't much of an option unless you want to build the road all the way down to the sea, then out on stilts ('cos the mountains go all the way to the sea as well) and back up the next valley. I suppose you could build over the ridges, that would get you lots of very expensively-to-construct, steep, zigzagging passes which are slow and dangerous to drive over especially in winter or when there's a typhoon blowing through. Then Chokonen would complain about those too and wonder why they never build any tunnels ;)
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby matsuki » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:10 pm

yanpa wrote:Ah yes, Switzerland, a country famous for its total lack of tunnels as its inhabitants prefer a long, slow snaking drive (but cheaper to build!) over its mountains.


The picture was a joke...

TIJ where many of these "mountains" are more like hills than any mountains I've seen back home. The reason I asked the question wasn't that I hate tunnels but that more often than not while driving, I come across tunnels that just seem absurd. (as in they could have easily/cheaply built around the "mountain" instead of through it)

For reference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... _by_height

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_p ... ted_States
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Re: Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

Postby Screwed-down Hairdo » Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:28 pm

Dudes,
Do you have any idea how many more construction companies you can use (and subsequently skim off bits and pieces of pork for yourself) if you build tunnels and roads to nowhere and all that other superfluous shite?
Have you no idea why this cuntry has public sector debt almost 2 1/2 times the entire cuntry's GDP?
They certainly aint using all that borrowed money to improve average punters' lives (other than perhaps keeping a few hundred thousand in underpaid, piecemeal construction jobs)
Tunnels also have lots of regulatory needs (as we have tragically seen over the weekend).
Who monitors those?
When people refer to this cuntry as one being run by mandarins (whether they do, actually, refer to it that way is moot, but let's not fuck over poetry in motion, huh...), they are certainly not talking about fucking mikan.
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