Expressway Tunnel Ceiling Falls on Cars

[Samurai_Jerk]

Dudes,
Do you have any idea how many more construction companies you can use (and subsequently skim off bits and pieces of pork for yourself) if you build tunnels and roads to nowhere and all that other superfluous shite?
Have you no idea why this cuntry has public sector debt almost 2 1/2 times the entire cuntry's GDP?
They certainly aint using all that borrowed money to improve average punters' lives (other than perhaps keeping a few hundred thousand in underpaid, piecemeal construction jobs)
Tunnels also have lots of regulatory needs (as we have tragically seen over the weekend).
Who monitors those?
When people refer to this cuntry as one being run by mandarins (whether they do, actually, refer to it that way is moot, but let's not fuck over poetry in motion, huh...), they are certainly not talking about fucking mikan.

I figured that's exactly what it was.

[Samurai_Jerk]

That is probably the case ... where you have plenty of space to build around the bits of rock sticking up,

Wrong. I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains. Plus I've been over the Rockies a couple of times and it's the same.

[yanpa]

That is probably the case ... where you have plenty of space to build around the bits of rock sticking up,

Wrong. I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains. Plus I've been over the Rockies a couple of times and it's the same.

I've never been to either, so I'll assume the general topography, population density and land usage is pretty much like Japan then

Seriously, this is the tunnel in question here: http://goo.gl/maps/1Juft

It passes below the natural pass between the Kanto Plain and the basin around Kofu; are you saying the only reason why highway, freeway and railway all have tunnels here is because of pork barrel politics, and it would be better to have all three going up over the pass in switchbacks?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains.

Isn't that where they have them funny-looking fellers playing Yankee Doodle Dandy on banjo (and call everyone "Pappy" and drink moonshine and holler at Ma before shooting the neighbors and all that other Taswegian-type activity?)

Maybe it's the Ozarks?

[matsuki]

That is probably the case ... where you have plenty of space to build around the bits of rock sticking up,

Wrong. I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains. Plus I've been over the Rockies a couple of times and it's the same.

I've never been to either, so I'll assume the general topography, population density and land usage is pretty much like Japan then

Seriously, this is the tunnel in question here: http://goo.gl/maps/1Juft

It passes below the natural pass between the Kanto Plain and the basin around Kofu; are you saying the only reason why highway, freeway and railway all have tunnels here is because of pork barrel politics, and it would be better to have all three going up over the pass in switchbacks?

We're not saying all tunnels don't make sense, of course there are some places where they make more sense than buiding around or over....but there are a lot that don't and SDH just said what I was thinkin'

[yanpa]

Well, your original question was "why are there so many tunnels?" with the implication that they make sense for Shinkansens but not roads...

[matsuki]

Well, your original question was "why are there so many tunnels?" with the implication that they make sense for Shinkansens but not roads...

Sorry, I should have said, "Why are there so many unnecessary tunnels?"

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains.

Isn't that where they have them funny-looking fellers playing Yankee Doodle Dandy on banjo (and call everyone "Pappy" and drink moonshine and holler at Ma before shooting the neighbors and all that other Taswegian-type activity?)

Maybe it's the Ozarks?

Appalachia, The Ozarks, Tasmania, Toyohashi. They're all cut from the same cloth.

[yanpa]

Well, your original question was "why are there so many tunnels?" with the implication that they make sense for Shinkansens but not roads...

Sorry, I should have said, "Why are there so many unnecessary tunnels?"

now that's more like it

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

They're all cut from the same cloth.

Over and over and over and over and over and over again...

[Coligny]

I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains.

Isn't that where they have them funny-looking fellers playing Yankee Doodle Dandy on banjo (and call everyone "Pappy" and drink moonshine and holler at Ma before shooting the neighbors and all that other Taswegian-type activity?)

Maybe it's the Ozarks?

Appalachia, The Ozarks, Tasmania, Toyohashi. They're all cut from the same cloth.

FOOK YOUZE...

and i want to learn piano now... any tips on self teaching buks ?

[Coligny]

Well, your original question was "why are there so many tunnels?" with the implication that they make sense for Shinkansens but not roads...

Sorry, I should have said, "Why are there so many unnecessary tunnels?"

I really love those switchback road in the mountains under the trees, extra fun to drive, really beautifull/wildish/watch for the falling debris... But anyfaster than 30kph and you end up part of the scenery... suxor for the already dreadfully slow highways...

[yanpa]

I'm talking about the Appalachian Mountains.

Isn't that where they have them funny-looking fellers playing Yankee Doodle Dandy on banjo (and call everyone "Pappy" and drink moonshine and holler at Ma before shooting the neighbors and all that other Taswegian-type activity?)

Maybe it's the Ozarks?

Appalachia, The Ozarks, Tasmania, Toyohashi. They're all cut from the same cloth.

FOOK YOUZE...

Rule 2 of FG: all threads will degenerate into denigration of Toyohashi and by extension Coligny

and i want to learn piano now... any tips on self teaching buks ?

Why yes:

piano-for-dummies.jpg

[matsuki]

Well, your original question was "why are there so many tunnels?" with the implication that they make sense for Shinkansens but not roads...

Sorry, I should have said, "Why are there so many unnecessary tunnels?"

I really love those switchback road in the mountains under the trees, extra fun to drive, really beautifull/wildish/watch for the falling debris... But anyfaster than 30kph and you end up part of the scenery... suxor for the already dreadfully slow highways...

Touge roads are fun to drive but I was more referring to road that tunnel into what I would call hills when there is hardly anything around and a road could easily be built just curving to one side of the hill. For real mountains where you see a ton of traffic, tunnels are obviously a better choice. (except when built in Japan apparently)

[Mike Oxlong]

Since the tunnel opened in 1977, there has been no maintenance, no testing of the bolts that secure and hang the concrete ceiling panels (1.2 tonne a piece). There is no record of the bolts ever replaced. All they have done every five years is visual inspection. Why? Because physical inspection was not required by law, and since the bolts are anchored at the highest part of the tunnel they are inaccessible.

EX-Files

[kagemusha]

3 things here:

1- I don't contest the fact that most of the time in Nagoya I see "every man for himself" behaviour. With people gleefully ignoring what's hapenning by looking busy doing whatever else. Toyohashi always gave me the impression of being a bit more... let say intrusive...

I have the same feeling about the locals here in the deep south.

2- I maintain, that heroism in a tunnel filling with smoke is a double plus ungood idea. For the same reason airplane safety video tells you to always put oxygen mask to yourself then help the others... Smoke from car fires suffocate you real fast... oxygen leave real quick... after mah near death experiment while painting my car rear wing with rattle can spray paint in my 12mats workshop, despite some exhaust fans, I had 3 seconds top between realizing that the gaz heater shutdown because of lack of oxygen, starting to have my field of vision reduce to nothing, luckily, I modified the door handle so she never lock and is always free to be pushed to open, because I barely made it to the door before colapsing and pushing it open with my forehead bringing fresh air back inside.
Also ask Taro what he thinks aboot tunnel ventilation in japan, even without fire...

I understand what you say, I don't expect her to come out of the black smoke carrying 2 wounded guys while holding another baby in her bare teeth. Normal people in immediate distress actually have the instinct of getting together in groups. A quick glance over her colleagues can tell her if they are alive, dead or out of the car already. I don't judge her personally, I don't know the whole picture but if I had no choice and had to put my money on the table I would have to guess she just went into the super selfish hysterical mode and didn't bother to look around her till she was out.
To all the people who praise the Japanese spirit in the wake of the tsunami I say - bullshit. The more I interviewed people the more I learned that during the crucial moments it was 'fuck the weak and old - I'm out of here'. The local media did the opposite of the way the American networks covered Katerina - trying to hide all the ugly and the inconvenience.
In the airplane video they show you to take care of yourself and then immediately help others, they don't tell you to put on your mask close your eyes and ignore everything around you.
We can keep arguing about this specific event and maybe you're right - we will never know but I still maintain the opinion that something is very wrong here in the land of harmony and togetherness.

3- are you hitting on meeee ? if yes... we can continue in PM...

[Coligny]

Basically, 35 year old M16 size bolts... to secure ventilation ducting... who for some reason NEEDED to be made of 9cm thick concrete plates... instead of folded light steel sheeting/piping...

Afterall, why not...

[Tsuru]

Since the tunnel opened in 1977, there has been no maintenance, no testing of the bolts that secure and hang the concrete ceiling panels (1.2 tonne a piece). There is no record of the bolts ever replaced. All they have done every five years is visual inspection. Why? Because physical inspection was not required by law, and since the bolts are anchored at the highest part of the tunnel they are inaccessible.

EX-Files

How the hell can you visually inspect something that is inaccessible?

[yanpa]

You'd think someone could come up with a robot for that kind of thing... though there probably isn't much money left in the kitty once the RKB48 Dancing Android Project has been accounted for.

[Taro Toporific]

Also ask Taro what he thinks aboot tunnel ventilation in japan, even without fire...

I'm surprised anybody remembers, but yes I was stuck in a traffic jam in a "ventilated" tunnel just north of Ikebukuro for 45 minutes and I became so so ill from carbon monoxide poisoning spent the afternoon vomiting (and was unable to perform my duties as best man at my judo sensei's wedding)---Mrs. Taro had past out from the fumes.
Japanese standards for tunnel ventilation are totally bogus.

[Coligny]

Since the tunnel opened in 1977, there has been no maintenance, no testing of the bolts that secure and hang the concrete ceiling panels (1.2 tonne a piece). There is no record of the bolts ever replaced. All they have done every five years is visual inspection. Why? Because physical inspection was not required by law, and since the bolts are anchored at the highest part of the tunnel they are inaccessible.

EX-Files

How the hell can you visually inspect something that is inaccessible?

I think I have an idea of their instruction:

untitled.jpg

Graphic Converter... Like MS Paint, but for Mac...

[legion]

Voices cried out “Help” and “Anyone please help” from the pile before a young woman emerged, barefoot and with her clothes torn, he was reported as saying.

She could not stop trembling, he told the agency, as he asked her how many had been inside the vehicle.

“She said: ‘All of my friends and my boyfriend…Please help them.’” said the man, adding the flames were too strong.

Tomohiro Suzuki, 37, said he had jumped out of his car and rushed towards a vehicle that had been crushed by the fallen concrete, in a bid to rescue people inside.

“A part of the ceiling, just as wide as the road, had collapsed straight down and broken in the middle into a V-shape,” he told Jiji, adding there was a fire in its bonnet. “I called the police as I thought it was impossible for me to rescue anyone inside.”

Suzuki said people in the tunnel were in panic, with cars starting to drive the wrong way to try to get out.

He gathered up his 38-year-old wife, Nishiki, and their two children, six and nine, and hurried them to safety as several dozen people rushed to get out.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/survivors-tell-of-horror-inside-collapsed-tunnel

[Russell]

...and i want to learn piano now... any tips on self teaching buks ?

Start with Das Wohltemperierte Klavier. Johann Sebastian Bach composed it

for the profit and use of musical youth desirous of learning, and especially for the pastime of those already skilled in this study.

The first piece in the first book is exactly that: "for the profit and use of musical youth desirous of learning". The remaining pieces are a little bit more difficult...

[Russell]

Voices cried out “Help” and “Anyone please help” from the pile before a young woman emerged, barefoot and with her clothes torn, he was reported as saying.

She could not stop trembling, he told the agency, as he asked her how many had been inside the vehicle.

“She said: ‘All of my friends and my boyfriend…Please help them.’” said the man, adding the flames were too strong.

Tomohiro Suzuki, 37, said he had jumped out of his car and rushed towards a vehicle that had been crushed by the fallen concrete, in a bid to rescue people inside.

“A part of the ceiling, just as wide as the road, had collapsed straight down and broken in the middle into a V-shape,” he told Jiji, adding there was a fire in its bonnet. “I called the police as I thought it was impossible for me to rescue anyone inside.”

Suzuki said people in the tunnel were in panic, with cars starting to drive the wrong way to try to get out.

He gathered up his 38-year-old wife, Nishiki, and their two children, six and nine, and hurried them to safety as several dozen people rushed to get out.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/survivors-tell-of-horror-inside-collapsed-tunnel

Yep, I noticed that one too. Apparently there were some heroes in that tunnel after all.

[Russell]

Fatal tunnel collapse blamed on aging bolts

No repairs made since '77; death toll hits nine

Yoshikawa also admitted that hammer tests, used to detect, by sound, irregularities in assembly components not visible or physically reachable, should have been carried out.

"That is something we need to reflect on. I offer a profound apology. We will deal with the victims in a sincere manner," he said.

So nice for the victims, ain't it?

[yanpa]

C'mon, Yoshikawa and other old guys in suits will be sobbing loudly while wearing down their foreheads on the floor for press conference after press conference. What more should they expect?

[yanpa]

Japan orders stable door inspections after horse bolted

The Japanese government has ordered emergency inspections of stable doors across the country following a deadly horse escape west of Tokyo.

Nine people were confirmed dead after horses escaped and started a fire in the Sasago tunnel, 80km (50 miles) from the capital on Sunday.

An inquiry into the Sasago escape has also been launched.

Officials from the stable operator suggested that metal rods securing the stable doors may have loosened.

Horse bolts

Japanese media report that the ministry of land, infrastructure, transport and tourism has ordered stable operators overseeing equine residential facilities similar to Sasago to carry out emergency inspections.

A total of 49 other stables on roads managed by the government are being inspected, the ministry said.

Japan's highway network has more than 1,500 stables and officials estimate that about a quarter of these are more than 30 years old.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20576883

Pictures: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20577566

[matsuki]

A quick glance over her colleagues can tell her if they are alive, dead or out of the car already. I don't judge her personally, I don't know the whole picture but if I had no choice and had to put my money on the table I would have to guess she just went into the super selfish hysterical mode and didn't bother to look around her till she was out.

THIS is what struck me too...bitch had no clue what happened to people in the same car as her. WTF???

Basically, 35 year old M16 size bolts... to secure ventilation ducting... who for some reason NEEDED to be made of 9cm thick concrete plates... instead of folded light steel sheeting/piping...

Afterall, why not...

Exactly what I was thinking...sheet metal that bolts up easily and is lightweight? Why do that when we can waste 10 times as much money creating concrete slabs in molds, transporting them there, and then bringing in the heavy equipment ...only to secure them with a few M16 bolts.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Police raid highway tunnel operator after collapse

Police are searching the offices of the operator of a tunnel where hundreds of concrete ceiling slabs collapsed onto moving vehicles below, killing nine people.
Those killed in Sunday's accident were traveling in three vehicles in the 4.7-kilometer (3-mile) long Sasago Tunnel about 80 kilometers (50 miles) west of Tokyo. The tunnel, on a highway that links the capital to central Japan, opened in 1977.
About a dozen uniformed police were shown on television entering the headquarters of Central Japan Expressway Co. early Tuesday, toting cardboard and plastic boxes.

Ret the fun begin!

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Ret the fun begin!

I thought that was the Japanese title for Gone with the Wind...if so, wrong thread, mate.