Immigration research

[American Oyaji]

Hey gang,
I'm doing a research project for school on immigration.

If you would be so kind, would you send me PM with bit about what you went through coming from your home country to Japan and the difficulties you faced?

Everything will be confidential when I write my paper, so your name won't be used. Just your info.

Thanks in advance!

[legion]

No difficulties

[yanpa]

If you would be so kind, would you send me PM with bit about what you went through coming from your home country to Japan and the difficulties you faced?

Do you mean more kind of adminstrative/logistical thing (visas, moving) or more "culture shock" / adapting kind of stuff?

(Also does it count if I didn't move here from my "home country"?)

[Coligny]

My cat spend 2 weeks in quarantine during which she tried to kill me at every visit.
The staff couldn't understand as she was adorable with them.
at the end of the first week they had the vet on stand by to patch me up in case it turns out really bad.

(this cat was as smart as she was fucked up in the head...)

[GomiGirl]

No problems here either. Ticked all the boxes and followed the lame rules and had no issues.

People usually only have grief when they try to skirt around the rules. IMHO Some fights just aren't worth fighting. Best to save your energy for the real ones.

[Coligny]

Thinking back... i didn't even have any sort of health check, the most tromatic part was to wait month for Yamato to bring my stuff...

( France at least ask for chest xray before giving long term visa to check for tuberculosis or other extinguished disease still raging outside our glorious borders).

Japan is going to be one hell of a shithole is case of zombie pandemic... better stock on barbwire...

[cstaylor]

If you would be so kind, would you send me PM with bit about what you went through coming from your home country to Japan and the difficulties you faced?

Do you mean more kind of adminstrative/logistical thing (visas, moving) or more "culture shock" / adapting kind of stuff?

(Also does it count if I didn't move here from my "home country"?)

Why do I have an image of Yanpa, Yokohammer, and SDH putting ashore aboard a longboat near Yamate?

[matsuki]

No problems here either. Ticked all the boxes and followed the lame rules and had no issues.

People usually only have grief when they try to skirt around the rules. IMHO Some fights just aren't worth fighting. Best to save your energy for the real ones.

THIS

Student visa I first came here on was a breeze, all my work visa extensions have been quick and relatively painless.

Only issue I ever had was my first work visa but the company had hired a lawyer to handle it (despite my request that I handle it on my own) and it took about half a year. I suspect it was either the company or lawyer's handling that resulted in the delay though.

[American Oyaji]

I'm researching immigration reform based not on a xenophobic us vs. them approach, but a look at a broken system by comparing the experiences of those who have gone through the gears of the system.
Different people have different experiences based on where they are from and where they are going.
I'm examining the bureaucracy, red tape and (mis)administration of the system.

[GomiGirl]

My only comment on Immigration policies is that there is no published and available check list for everything that is needed. So the X-factor is not transparent.

But I think this is deliberate by the MOJ so they can use this non-transparency to apply the "case-by-case" rules if n application smells fishy.

However, you sound like you are coming from the premise that you know better and that your way (ie the US way) is right. I don't think that the MOJ thinks their system is broken at all. It is just people from outside trying to apply a different set of values on them that think the system is broken.

Why do you think the system is broken?

[yanpa]

Sorry if this is splitting hairs, but one issue is that Japan doesn't have an "immigration system" per se. It has a system of granting residency permits to non-Japanese citizens, who in exceptional circumstances will be granted permanent residency, but the default "course" is one which assumes temporary residency (unlike e.g. the USA, Australia etc.).

The problems I personally have with the system aren't so much bureaucratic - it seems if you're from a "western" nation, have your papers in reasonable order and can afford a few 1000 yen for the requisite revenue stamps (and don't turn up too often on a flight from Korea drunk and in possession of back-to-back tourist visas), there are few practical problems. It's more the "exclusionary" nature of the system, particularly having to carry an ARC/ZRC which irks me. Also the dual citizenship thing; if I wanted to spend the rest of my life here, I'd sure like to have citizenship, but not at the cost of giving up my current one.

[Coligny]

Why do you think the system is broken?

Either:

a- Maximum overdrive trolling
or
b- this and your love for airline companies abuses might reveal intredasting things aboot you...

[GomiGirl]

What I think isn't important. [*]

What I wanted to know was why AO thought it was broken to determine if his research was going to have a bias from the get go.

[*]But here is what I think anyway. I have had my own issues with Immigration over the years not for me but for people close to me. Personally I think the requirement for a bachelor degree, any bachelor degree, is stooopid as it is such a ham fisted policy and can be easily be abused by simply buying a degree from Bangkok. But this is MY opinion.

[Coligny]

.However, you sound like you are coming from the premise that you know better and that your way (ie the US way) is right. I don't think that the MOJ thinks their system is broken at all. It is just people from outside trying to apply a different set of values on them that think the system is broken.

You are building a strawman, i don't believe anybody 'thinks' in their ministry of justice, they follow medieval rules without questionning them. Dropping the wapanism of 'western values versus japanese values' is ridiculous. Treating foreigners even those married like untermensh is not a japanese value, it's racial segregation. You have the same obligation but none of the same rights. Here it's for passport reasons, in south africa it was for skin colors reason.

Claiming cultural values difference on that topic is on same bull level as the unique japanese snow or smiling to avoid radiation poisonning. A retarded toddler might get away with such reasonning, at governemental level it calls for massive UN sanctions and NATO intervention.

But if by different set of values you mean "japanese are racists fucktard" yes, you might be onto something...

[Samurai_Jerk]

What I wanted to know was why AO thought it was broken to determine if his research was going to have a bias from the get go.

Depending on what kind of a project he's doing, bias might not be an issue. His thesis might be that the system is broken.

[omae mona]

All the "administrative" problems I've been aware of are due to the applicant not following rules. To an extreme level. I've seen the J-immigration folks go to extremes, bending rules to help applicants that keep shooting themselves in the foot. This is just based on cases I'm aware of, so I'm not denying there could be snafus where applicants aren't treated properly.

Policy-wise I have a few gripes. What GomiGirl wrote about transparency and the tendency to use "case-by-case" rules is spot on, I think. And it's mainly used for one purpose: to create a de-facto policy of treating some classes of foreigners different from others, without the embarrassment of admitting it's their policy. On the one hand, if you're from a friendly, whitish, richish country, I think Japan is way more generous than my country (the U.S.) in allowing people to stay here. When in the U.S. I've struggled with sponsorship of employees with profiles like "PhD, 10 years of relevant work experience in specialized field, Canadian" and had to lawyer up to keep them in the country. It's a heck of a lot easier to stay put in Japan for a long time, at least on 3 or 5 year renewable visas. On the other hand, I know people in Japan who are from the wrong country and don't earn enough to pay meaningful taxes. They get 1 year visas at best. And while they exceed the few written guidelines for permanent residence (e.g. years of continuous residence) by at least a factor of 2, and are denied PR due to being here "on the wrong kind of visa" that can't be upgraded to PR, apparently. That's not a publicized rule; just a way to keep out the riff-raff.

Treating foreigners even those married like untermensh is not a japanese value, it's racial segregation.

Or maybe a side effect of said foreigners being really annoying? I don't think it happens to most foreigners.

[Coligny]

Treating foreigners even those married like untermensh is not a japanese value, it's racial segregation.

Or maybe a side effect of said foreigners being really annoying? I don't think it happens to most foreigners.

I can't vote, i can't apply for public jobs (not that i'd want to but still)... These have nothing to do with being annoying or not and is in my book treating people like untermensh. But don't worry, you'll get your sugar for trying to take a jab at me... No matter how pathetic the attempt was...

[Russell]

Treating foreigners even those married like untermensh is not a japanese value, it's racial segregation.

Or maybe a side effect of said foreigners being really annoying? I don't think it happens to most foreigners.

I can't vote, i can't apply for public jobs (not that i'd want to but still)...

There must be a reason other than you being a FG that excludes you from applying for a public job (I assume you mean civil servant here). It is definitely possible to get hired as a foreigner in such jobs (unless it is in the police, army, or judiciary).

[Coligny]

I was thinking police actually.

[yanpa]

So... how many other countries allow non-citizens to join their police force? Or vote as a non-citizen?

untermensh (sic)

And how does Nazi terminology help the argument, exactly? Is there some form of ethnic oppression going on down there in Toyohashi? Non-Aryans Yamatonians being herded into concentration camps, summarily executed, kidnapped as slave labour, that kind of thing? People must be told!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Treating foreigners even those married like untermensh is not a japanese value, it's racial segregation.

Or maybe a side effect of said foreigners being really annoying? I don't think it happens to most foreigners.

I can't vote, i can't apply for public jobs (not that i'd want to but still)... These have nothing to do with being annoying or not and is in my book treating people like untermensh. But don't worry, you'll get your sugar for trying to take a jab at me... No matter how pathetic the attempt was...

Japan isn't unusual in barring non-citizens from voting or holding certain public sector jobs. Why don't you naturalize if you want those rights?

[Coligny]

baring non citizen is ok.

rules to acquire citizenship...

Let say for sumeone landing here out of the blue, maybe ok.

For husband/wife... not so much...

Access to french nationnality is a given after 5 years under a common adress. And family of the former foreign member is entitled to special visa (family regroupment visa).
The only time where in laws were discriminated against was during the Fukushima evacuation for which only spouse (even if japanese) and children were allowed.

As for the untermensh remark. Sorry i don't know the south afrikan word for this notion... And despite todays simplification, the nazis were not just aboot baking jews... they also hated gays, roms and shitloads of other things that somehow manage to validate the reference despite some peoples hard ons to invoke godwin's law no matter how irrelevant it is to the topic.

Some people are in japan just because it's the country of the one they married. Not giving a real fuck aboot the country itself. Personnally, when asked why i don't leave if i don't like it... my only answer is, i don't live in japan, i live in my house, who happens to be in japan... the fact that trains run on time is a plus (no godwin here either please) mail delivery also kick ass... the rest... is open to debate...

[Samurai_Jerk]

baring non citizen is ok.

rules to acquire citizenship...

You've almost arrived at a coherent logical argument. Congratulations.

The rules for becoming a citizen might be fucked. However, you aren't denied certain rights because of your blood like the untermensh were. You're denied those rights because of your lack of Japanese nationality. Plus, no one is rounding us up for extermination (yet). I regularly meet people who've naturalized and many of them did so without having a Japanese spouse. None of them are Westerners though. Yes, it's tough to become a citizen of Japan but I don't think most FGs from the West realize how often it happens because people in out circles don't tend to see becoming a citizen of J-land a plus. In the past month or so I've met two guys from Asia who are married to women from their countries but managed to get Japanese citizenship plus a friend of mine from Africa who is single just became a naturalized Japanese.

By the way, who mentioned the Jews in relation to concentration camps? I think most people are aware that they weren't the only ones targeted by Germany. I've noticed that you seem to have a problem with Jews. I guess we can add anti-Semite to the long list of reasons why you're a fucking asshole.

[Coligny]

In my general remarks, the jew thing is a shitstorm triggered by Sarkozy and counter echoed by Dieudonne M'balla M'balla, too complicamated to explain in a way yer anger filled bipolar brain could understand...

In this precise case it was just a basic reminder that nazi were extremly creative in their way to be assholes. And therefore lots of happenstance can be qualified as 'nazi' without falling under godwins umbrella...

But you are bit off in calling me antisemite... I'am an equal opportunity religion hater (it comes with the Party membership card)... not restricted to the 3 semitic religions (christianity, judaism and islam...)... But since it's mention of jew that make you call me antisemite I suspect that this conversation is already way over the understanding you were given with last summer issue of Swimwear Illustrated in their special (and awesome) "girls of tsahal" centerfold.

(you should really work on that anger management thing)

[Samurai_Jerk]

In my general remarks, the jew thing is a shitstorm triggered by Sarkozy and counter echoed by Dieudonne M'balla M'balla, too complicamated to explain in a way yer anger filled bipolar brain could understand...

In this precise case it was just a basic reminder that nazi were extremly creative in their way to be assholes. And therefore lots of happenstance can be qualified as 'nazi' without falling under godwins umbrella...

But you are bit off in calling me antisemite... I'am an equal opportunity religion hater (it comes with the Party membership card)... not restricted to the 3 semitic religions (christianity, judaism and islam...)... But since it's mention of jew that make you call me antisemite I suspect that this conversation is already way over the understanding you were given with last summer issue of Swimwear Illustrated in their special (and awesome) "girls of tsahal" centerfold.

(you should really work on that anger management thing)

I'm not calling you an Anti-Semite based on that one remark. However, you've said snarky things about Jews in the past which gives me that impression. I'd search for examples on here but you usually misspell Jew in a way I can't remember so it's tough to do. Anyway, No one was evoking Godwin. However, they were pointing out that your analogy fails. Also, though we can argue that the term is not precise enough, Antisemitism refers specifically to prejudice against Jews so it's got nothing to do with Christians or Muslims.

I'll work on my anger management issue as soon as you get a job and start working.

[cstaylor]

I'll work on my anger management issue as soon as you get a job and start working.

??? I thought he was the head janitor at a obgyn clinic near Nagoya? Did they fire him?

[Coligny]

The "djooze" reference is a farkism. Some thread degenerate really badly with delusionnal paranoids getting out of the woodwork to blame everything under the sun on a jewish conspiracy reigning on washington DC. (alec jones style). People with less... issues, named this inexistant seekreet elite in power "djooze"... It's the same as when non conspiracy wingnuts use the word "sheeple"...

As for your obsession with my line of work... what are you ? one of those fucking "arbeit macht frei" nazis ?

Judging by your posting you wank for a good part of the day, so aside from the fact that you have to wear clothes from 9 to 5 and take the place of someone else depriving him of a livinghood, you don't seems much better than me. Plus you're the one seeming more likely to go postal, making you a much bigger threat for mankind than me, peacefully staring at the clouds... and mooning blimps... i hate those fucking blimps...

[Samurai_Jerk]

The "djooze" reference is a farkism. Some thread degenerate really badly with delusionnal paranoids getting out of the woodwork to blame everything under the sun on a jewish conspiracy reigning on washington DC. (alec jones style). People with less... issues, named this inexistant seekreet elite in power "djooze"... It's the same as when non conspiracy wingnuts use the word "sheeple"...

As for your obsession with my line of work... what are you ? one of those fucking "arbeit macht frei" nazis ?

Judging by your posting you wank for a good part of the day, so aside from the fact that you have to wear clothes from 9 to 5 and take the place of someone else depriving him of a livinghood, you don't seems much better than me. Plus you're the one seeming more likely to go postal, making you a much bigger threat for mankind than me, peacefully staring at the clouds... and mooning blimps... i hate those fucking blimps...

Interesting that you would assume I'm burning with rage when I type a post. You seem to have a lot more pent-up anger than anyone on here.

[Coligny]

D00d... re-read yourself... you usually sound like a sociopath one sip away from murderous rampage...

And once again if i'm so anger filled as you state, then i'm also de facto qualified to recognize you as a peer...

so, take your pills and see you in the tv room if they let you out of the padded cell for diner...

[yanpa]

Hey American Oyaji, I've got a new research subject idea for you: "Online conflict in the expatriate community"