Toroku-shomeisho >>> Juminhyo

[Mike Oxlong]

Recontracting. Gaikokujin torokusho requested. Went to city hall. They don't issue them anymore. Asked for whatever the new equivalent is. Got a juminhyo. Work didn't like it - wants something else. Asked work for the name of the doc they require. They don't know. Just some list of data they supposedly need.

Any experiences out there with the new document dance craze?

[Yokohammer]

Recontracting. Gaikokujin torokusho requested. Went to city hall. They don't issue them anymore. Asked for whatever the new equivalent is. Got a juminhyo. Work didn't like it - wants something else. Asked work for the name of the doc they require. They don't know. Just some list of data they supposedly need.

Any experiences out there with the new document dance craze?

They seem to be a little behind the times.

Did you get your new Residence Card (Zairyu Card) from immigration that replaces the Gaikokujin Tourokusho?
That's what they probably want.

[Mike Oxlong]

No, have not updated the card. They always wanted the paper form of the registration issued from city hall previously. Go down there, pay your 300 yen, get your official document. Same deal this time, just the document has a new name and slightly different format. Has thrown them into a tizzy...

[yanpa]

The "Toroku-shomeisho" is your actual "Alien Registration Card". The official piece of paper which acted as an official "copy" and which you used to be able to get from the city hall, yakuba etc. was the 外国人登録原票 (Gaikokujin Toroku Genpyo). It does look like you can obtain this directly from the MOJ under the new system: http://www.moj.go.jp/hisho/bunsho/hisho02_00016.html but whether that's what your employer actually needs is a different question.

[Yokohammer]

Ask them what they would want from a Japanese person.

If the answer is "Juminhyo," then that's what they need.

Or, you could just let them figure it out for themselves, which is probably the best option (I assume they do realize that the system has changed?).

[Mike Oxlong]

They are bothered that my status of residence is omitted from the juminhyo. Since it has been eijuken for some time now, I reminded them what permanent means (it's on all the previous years' paperwork). So they asked for a photocopy of my ARC/Zairyu card. Told them to stuff it.

[omae mona]

They are bothered that my status of residence is omitted from the juminhyo. Since it has been eijuken for some time now, I reminded them what permanent means (it's on all the previous years' paperwork). So they asked for a photocopy of my ARC/Zairyu card. Told them to stuff it.

OK, but yanpa was spot on. You should read what he wrote carefully. If your original post was correct and they truly asked for the "gaikokujin touroku shoumeisho", that is the Japanese name of the ARC. It's your card. There's pretty much no other document (other than the official copy / genpyo which yanpa mentioned, or your passport) that proves you're permitted to work legally.

If you're bothered by the fact that you proved it once before, I'd say two things. First, permanent doesn't really mean permanent. There are plenty of ways to lose your eijuuken including something as simple as leaving the country without valid reentry permit. Second, if your recontracting legally is considered a new hire, they are required by law to file a 外国人雇用状況の届出 (gaijin employment status notification) each time they hire one of us barbarians. Take a look at this pamphlet: http://www.mhlw.go.jp/bunya/koyou/gaiko ... t_rule.pdf. You can see on page 7-8 what the employer has to fill out on the form, and page 9 explains their obligation to specifically confirm this info on your ARC, and even shows them how to read it.

EDIT: here's a newer version of the pamphlet which explains the new zairyu card and explains who's required to have which card (the old ARC or the new zairyu card) at which times. http://www.mhlw.go.jp/bunya/koyou/gaiko ... 120629.pdf

[Mike Oxlong]

Noted and appreciated. m(_ !_)m

[omae mona]

Recently, I ran into a hurdle with the new immigration system our overlords imposed. This surprised the heck out of me.

I needed legal proof of an address where I was living a few years ago. In the past we had to get an official certificate of items from our ARC (I forgot the name of this document). Since the new system was introduced, it's even easier in theory. Past addresses are shown on the juminhyo, which is super-easy to obtain (my area has strategically placed all-day self-service printing kiosks).

But there's a catch. I needed an address where I lived prior to the new system in July 2012. It turns out that all gaijin data prior to 2012 has been purged, almost everywhere. It doesn't show up on your juminhyo. The local government office has no records anymore. Even places like the Shinagawa immigration center no longer have access.

Our pre-2012 records are in only one place: the Ministry of Justice in Kasumigaseki. You need to go there in person to apply, or apply by mail, and the response time is up to one month, to get an official copy. And note to those who want to go in person: this is not for those who are not confident with their Japanese skills. The MOJ HQ is no immigration center, and there's nary a word of English to be found, and no signs of anybody speaking foreign languages.

The most surprising thing to me is that I haven't heard of anybody else having to go through this process. Has it happened to anybody?

[EDIT: the name of the old document certifying items on your ARC was the 外国人登録原票記載事項証明書 a.k.a. gaikokujintourokugenpyoukisaijikoushoumeisho. Why on earth could I not remember that? And here is the official announcement that it was abolished in 2012]

[wagyl]

Fark.

I have a car with the shaken address two moves ago, or 16 years old. Yes I know I was meant to change address on the shaken with each move but going through the hoops of proving rights to a parking space was just that one step too inconvenient to bother doing it properly. Tokyo Metropolis is happy to continue to receive the tax every year even though I am not living there any more. The shaken address in fact no longer exists: the building was demolished and the room number was never rebuilt.

This is just the kind of development which will prevent me ever being able to transfer title of the car to anyone else. It is just as well that I love the car enough to drive it into the ground, that I couldn't bear to part with it to someone else, but even so this is a pissy restriction.

Having been there on other business, I can confirm that a visit to the Ministry of Justice is not for the faint hearted. You have to be able to clearly explain your business there otherwise they will prevent you from entering the building.

[omae mona]

Having been there on other business, I can confirm that a visit to the Ministry of Justice is not for the faint hearted. You have to be able to clearly explain your business there otherwise they will prevent you from entering the building.

Yep, I had to pass through two security guards and have a baggage inspection. Then a reception lady gave me a visitors' badge. Then a 3rd security guard had to personally escort me to the room where you file your application (all in Japanese), because they really don't like people wandering around the halls (and there were no guidance signs anyway, in Japanese or otherwise).

That being said... once I actually made it to the room, the guy at the counter was incredibly friendly and knowledgable. He even asked me to add my mobile number to the application form instead of my home number, since I'd be able to find out sooner that the results are ready when he calls me.

[pjifwepijfsd]

I did this a year or two ago so I could have my tax accountant figure out when I would hit tax permanent residency here. It was much easier than researching it myself based on flight records, memory, etc.

[IparryU]

I did this a year or two ago so I could have my tax accountant figure out when I would hit tax permanent residency here. It was much easier than researching it myself based on flight records, memory, etc.

5 years from when you got here. Don't need a tax accountant to figure that out...

If you were a temporary resident that would change the situation though.

[wagyl]

Recently, I ran into a hurdle with the new immigration system our overlords imposed. This surprised the heck out of me.

I needed legal proof of an address where I was living a few years ago. In the past we had to get an official certificate of items from our ARC (I forgot the name of this document). Since the new system was introduced, it's even easier in theory. Past addresses are shown on the juminhyo, which is super-easy to obtain (my area has strategically placed all-day self-service printing kiosks).

But there's a catch. I needed an address where I lived prior to the new system in July 2012. It turns out that all gaijin data prior to 2012 has been purged, almost everywhere. It doesn't show up on your juminhyo. The local government office has no records anymore. Even places like the Shinagawa immigration center no longer have access.

Our pre-2012 records are in only one place: the Ministry of Justice in Kasumigaseki. You need to go there in person to apply, or apply by mail, and the response time is up to one month, to get an official copy. And note to those who want to go in person: this is not for those who are not confident with their Japanese skills. The MOJ HQ is no immigration center, and there's nary a word of English to be found, and no signs of anybody speaking foreign languages.

The most surprising thing to me is that I haven't heard of anybody else having to go through this process. Has it happened to anybody?

[EDIT: the name of the old document certifying items on your ARC was the 外国人登録原票記載事項証明書 a.k.a. gaikokujintourokugenpyoukisaijikoushoumeisho. Why on earth could I not remember that? And here is the official announcement that it was abolished in 2012]

Since the Japanese bureaucracy loves to abandon webpages, and since I am about to go through this process myself, I thought I would update with what I have discovered so far. If your car has its shaken still registered at an address other than your current address, when you come to sell (or even scrap) your car you need a document which connects the the two addresses. For Japanese, this will be the juminhyou. For us, it is now the juminhyou, but previously it was the aforementioned gaikokujintourokugenpyoukisaijikoshoumeisho. Searching that term reveals all the local government websites which have not been updated in foreign languages in years (and some which have been updated since the system was abolished: shame on you, Kakamigahara and your Brand Creation Section). If you require information prior to 8 July 2012, you will need to apply to the Ministry of Justice at Kasumigaseki. Application may be made by post, so those of you in Wakkanai or Yonaguni don't need to panic. It can take up to a month for the document to be prepared, and they especially note on the application form that information from before 1981 can be delayed.

Further details in Japanese here (which is of course what Yanpa linked way up there near the top of the thread. Oh well, that visit to the City Office to ask for the details did get me out of the office for a bit.)

[wagyl]

I went and put in my application for the paperwork today. I have been to the Ministry of Justice before on other business, so I knew about the tight security check before being admitted to the building. A lot of it is to do with the fact that the Public Security Intelligence Agency is in the same building. I was in Tokyo for another event, and used the fact that I was already in Tokyo to do my visit, but it meant that I had to have a bag check which included a rucksack full of two days worth of dirty laundry, of the type of clothes only worn on a rugged construction site and/or in a gay fetish bar*. To save Matsuki making a cheeky obscure comment, I will get in first and say that I passed the metal detector test without having any awkward questions to answer.

Once inside, there was an extra layer of security, and the guard there had a glint in his eye: he knows why you are there, but still forces you to say the magic word: gaikokujintourokugenpyoukisaijikoshoumeisho. And he wants you to get it right. Once allowed to pass that test, you are directed to the office to make the application. The documents are currently taking about a week to prepare.

* Tokyo shitamachi is full of fucking jerks!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Tokyo shitamachi is full of fucking jerks!

I couldn't agree more.

[omae mona]

waggly (that is not my nickname for you, but my autocorrect altered "wagyl", and it seemed cute, so I am leaving it),

You're the only guy besides me who I know who has wandered into MOJ headquarters in Kasumigaseki. And for the same reason as me, for that matter. But I meant to ask you since your 2014 post... what "other business" did you have there on your previous visit (if you are at liberty to say)?

[matsuki]

I went and put in my application for the paperwork today. I have been to the Ministry of Justice before on other business, so I knew about the tight security check before being admitted to the building. A lot of it is to do with the fact that the Public Security Intelligence Agency is in the same building. I was in Tokyo for another event, and used the fact that I was already in Tokyo to do my visit, but it meant that I had to have a bag check which included a rucksack full of two days worth of dirty laundry, of the type of clothes only worn on a rugged construction site and/or in a gay fetish bar*. To save Matsuki making a cheeky obscure comment, I will get in first and say that I passed the metal detector test without having any awkward questions to answer.

If it was only bigger

[wagyl]

The document itself is quite interesting. It is not Stasi files level of detail, since it is based on information I provided myself, but it is handwritten details of each change of address, each new passport, each change of employer, each extension to status of residence, each new gaijin card number, each time my parents moved back home, my tsushomei, and multiple samples of signatures and a harrowing progression of photos, showing the damage a long life in the Orient can do to a man. And a fucking fingerprint.

[wagyl]

In not unrelated events, I obtained a copy of my juminhyo today. It seems to have a few extra items than those for Japanese nationals, such as Date of Becoming Foreign Resident (which is just the date that they started registering us, 9 July 2012), Nationality and Status of Residence.

Most notably, since all I need the juminhyo for is to certify my address, it expressly does not include an entry for Juminhyo Code Number or My Number, or even whether I am head of the household or not. And then it goes and discloses my Zairyu Card number. I'm not 100% comfortable with that, but I doubt it can be misused in any meaningful way. It just struck me as a little rude to go to the effort of hiding other numbers but including that one.

Has anyone else got a copy of their juminhyo? Did you have the same experience?

[omae mona]

In not unrelated events, I obtained a copy of my juminhyo today. It seems to have a few extra items than those for Japanese nationals, such as Date of Becoming Foreign Resident (which is just the date that they started registering us, 9 July 2012), Nationality and Status of Residence.

Most notably, since all I need the juminhyo for is to certify my address, it expressly does not include an entry for Juminhyo Code Number or My Number, or even whether I am head of the household or not. And then it goes and discloses my Zairyu Card number. I'm not 100% comfortable with that, but I doubt it can be misused in any meaningful way. It just struck me as a little rude to go to the effort of hiding other numbers but including that one.

Has anyone else got a copy of their juminhyo? Did you have the same experience?

I don't have one handy right now, but I seem to recall that last time I issued one via the handy vending machine in my ward office, there were lots of on-screen options about including or not including various pieces of info. I was only trying to prove address, so I said "no" to all the choices. I don't recall much info being printed which I deemed to be extraneous or annoying. But now that I think about it, I know why it did not include my zairyu card number. The last time I printed a juminhyo copy was was definitely before I had a zairyu card (I waited until close to the final deadline to get a zairyu card for permanent residents). I suppose I might get a different result if I tried again now.

[yanpa]

When I applied for a renewal of my extension of stay, I needed a copy of the Juminhyo so filled in a form, and answered "no" to the question whether I needed additional information according to paragraph blah blah of the Special Residency Law or something, as I autotranslated that into "Special Permanent Resident" and while I may be special I'm not yet permanent, anyway that was a mistake as it turned out that is the option to print the additional information like current residency status and period of stay as the Nyukunyuku Kanrikyoku needs to get that from the Kuyakusho because it's not like they have that information themselves, or something, anyway the helpful lady behind the counter pointed out the error of my ways and arranged for an amended copy to be issued free of charge.

[wagyl]

Ahh, OK. I don't think I had that option available to me -- we are still in "talk to a person behind the desk" level of technology here -- but admittedly I didn't explain the purpose for the document, so it may well have been assumed that as a foreign looking person, I am incapable of functioning in society other than to present a document to Immigration, and that I could not possibly buy and sell the sort of assets that require registration. The fact that I ordered hanko registration papers at the same time should have been a hint, though.

Oh well, my awesome status of residence and exciting country of nationality, together with a boring number, is thus disclosed to about three other people who didn't need to know it.