What's the point of a train pass?

[Samurai_Jerk]

I've never bothered to get a teikiken to go to work. I just pay the regular fair when I ride the train. I figured it wasn't worth it since I rarely use the same line for anything other than going to and from the office and there are plenty of days that I don't go straight home after work. Just out of curiosity I checked the price of one between my home station and the office last week and was really surprised at what a bad deal it is. Assuming a 5-day work week where I used the same route both ways without fail it would actually cost me about 1000 yen more to buy a monthly pass and save me about the same each month for a 3- or 6-month pass. That really doesn't see like it would be worth it for most people.

My ride is only 8.8 km on one of the Toei lines so I'm wondering if it's just because I have a short trip, use Toei, or don't transfer between rail companies that it's such a shitty deal or are all teikiken that worthless?

[Coligny]

Well, it's always good to know that all you move can be much easily monitored with a train pass...
This and not having to bother buying tickets...

Are the pass 'unlimited' for the timespan ?

Back home it was, and the yearly pass costed only the price of 11 monthly pass. You just had to select a zoning coverage, (like Paris + near burbs being a Zone 2 pass) and you can take subway, bus, limited regional express and now maybe tramway too. As many times as you want all week long. Which when you're a student used to skip school was as cool as between having a car, or your own spaceship... Or Tardis for older people...

Now for Japan... Don't forget the lemmings effect... If the Shitbox tell them to eat banana in the morning supermarket are empty of long yellow fruits for month... So if the Shitbox say "we japanese supa modern transport have unic in the world computer railpass you must use it".... Then... guess what...

[nikoneko]

We used to get them on the Hanshin line in Kobe, if I remember right I worked it out to about 30 rides a month or so to save money which was more than doable. So yeah it may be just a crappy deal on your line.

[Russell]

Well, it's always good to know that all you move can be much easily monitored with a train pass...
This and not having to bother buying tickets...

Are the pass 'unlimited' for the timespan ?

Back home it was, and the yearly pass costed only the price of 11 monthly pass. You just had to select a zoning coverage, (like Paris + near burbs being a Zone 2 pass) and you can take subway, bus, limited regional express and now maybe tramway too. As many times as you want all week long. Which when you're a student used to skip school was as cool as between having a car, or your own spaceship... Or Tardis for older people...

Now for Japan... Don't forget the lemmings effect... If the Shitbox tell them to eat banana in the morning supermarket are empty of long yellow fruits for month... So if the Shitbox say "we japanese supa modern transport have unic in the world computer railpass you must use it".... Then... guess what...

Nope, Japanese are smarter than that.

It is all in your imagination.

In some cases, however, they are forced by their employer to purchase a teikiken for administrative reasons.

But it is not their own choice.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Well, it's always good to know that all you move can be much easily monitored with a train pass...
This and not having to bother buying tickets...

I do have a Suica I can charge but not a monthly pass.

Are the pass 'unlimited' for the timespan ?

They're good for unlimited rides between the two stations you choose (generally home and the office) and any stations in between on that route. Not for anything that deviates from the route or stations beyond the home or office station even if they're within the same fare zone. I guess it's really not worth it for me because there are several lines withing a 10 min walk of my house not to mention buses, so I don't use the line often enough when I don't go to work. Still it's a surprise that a monthly pass would cost more than a 5-day a week round trip to the office at regular fare.

[yanpa]

Well, it's always good to know that all you move can be much easily monitored with a train pass...

The paranoid can pay cash at the train pass machine and enter a false name (if required at all). Do go hooded/wearing sunglasses and modify your gait so They can't recognise you on CCTV. Oh, and get an old-style magnetic pass so They can't read your card from a distance.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I've never bothered to get a teikiken to go to work. I just pay the regular fair when I ride the train. I figured it wasn't worth it since I rarely use the same line for anything other than going to and from the office and there are plenty of days that I don't go straight home after work. Just out of curiosity I checked the price of one between my home station and the office last week and was really surprised at what a bad deal it is. Assuming a 5-day work week where I used the same route both ways without fail it would actually cost me about 1000 yen more to buy a monthly pass and save me about the same each month for a 3- or 6-month pass. That really doesn't see like it would be worth it for most people.

My ride is only 8.8 km on one of the Toei lines so I'm wondering if it's just because I have a short trip, use Toei, or don't transfer between rail companies that it's such a shitty deal or are all teikiken that worthless?

Ride a bike!

Actually, it's always been a good deal for me because I've always lived in the boondocks part of Tokyo, where each trip to anywhere of significance starts at about 350 yen one way and it's not uncommon to spend 2,000 yen on a return trip to somewhere in central Tokyo. With a teiki, it always made travel easier on the finances, but that's because prices are calculated on distances traveled and the Chuo Line, which I used regularly until about three years ago, carries a surcharge on its fares to help fund JR's loss-making (less profitable?) lines in the Tokyo area.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Well, it's always good to know that all you move can be much easily monitored with a train pass...

The paranoid can pay cash at the train pass machine and enter a false name (if required at all). Do go hooded/wearing sunglasses and modify your gait so They can't recognise you on CCTV. Oh, and get an old-style magnetic pass so They can't read your card from a distance.

Considering what's been disclosed over the past week or so, it's probably justified, though I can imagine that many people have been taking such precautions for a very long time.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Ride a bike!

I've done it before. It takes about the same amount of time door-to-door as commuting by train and is a much nicer ride. However, we don't have a shower at work and towling down before changing into a suit just doesn't cut it.

[Coligny]

Nope, Japanese are smarter than that.

It is all in your imagination.

Trying hard these days huh ?

[yanpa]

Still it's a surprise that a monthly pass would cost more than a 5-day a week round trip to the office at regular fare.

Weird...

The route covered by my current pass is 390 yen one-way (private line + JR), assuming 20 working days, that's ¥15,600. The 1-month pass is ¥13,750, which is a saving of ¥1,850. A 6 month pass is ¥71,230, which works out at 11,871 a month, or a saving of ¥3,279. Additional benefits: I can extend the pass one station at each end for the same price, and can use either the JR or private line where they run parallel. Moreover, I can get on and off wherever I like (which is mainly useful on the JR bit) at no extra cost. Weekend usage pushes the average trip cost down even further below the standard ticket price.

So yes, it has a point for me. YMMV.

[yanpa]

Now for Japan... Don't forget the lemmings effect... If the Shitbox tell them to eat banana in the morning supermarket are empty of long yellow fruits for month... So if the Shitbox say "we japanese supa modern transport have unic in the world computer railpass you must use it".... Then... guess what...

I think you need to get out more...

[Samurai_Jerk]

In some cases, however, they are forced by their employer to purchase a teikiken for administrative reasons.

But it is not their own choice.

I'm reimbursed for a teikiken each month but never asked to show proof I've actually bought one. I never have been asked in previous companies either. I guess some companies want a ryoshusho!? That would seem to pointlessly create extra administrative work since the government doesn't require a ryoshusho for standard transportation expenses so I don't know why they'd require .... oh, never mind ... TIJ. Unnecessarily administrative work is as uniquely Yamato as the four seasons and bad teeth.

[yanpa]

Still it's a surprise that a monthly pass would cost more than a 5-day a week round trip to the office at regular fare.

Weird...

But true. Oedo Line fare from Shinjuku to Shiodome is ¥210, but teikiken is ¥8,920 (if my information is correct).

[Samurai_Jerk]

Still it's a surprise that a monthly pass would cost more than a 5-day a week round trip to the office at regular fare.

Weird...

But true. Oedo Line fare from Shinjuku to Shiodome is ¥210, but teikiken is ¥8,920 (if my information is correct).

Yeah, I just looked it up and that's the number I got. I think the guy at the station gave me the wrong number which was even higher. But taking an average of 21 works days a month round trip it's 8820 which is still 100 yen cheaper. I don't use the same line but I'm also 210 yen one way.

[wagyl]

There are some definite mysteries in train fare calculations, and from memory Toei lines were one of them. I could imagine their teikiken being not much of a enticing deal. The one that always gets me is long distance JR fares. As a hint for the uninitiated, fares for distances over 200 Km get suddenly more expensive. Many, many times you can save a significant amount by splitting the journey and buying two tickets of under 200 Km, and the discount ticket shops do this regularly.

[yanpa]

There are some definite mysteries in train fare calculations, and from memory Toei lines were one of them.

The entire existence of Toei is a bit of a mystery...

I could imagine their teikiken being not much of a enticing deal. The one that always gets me is long distance JR fares. As a hint for the uninitiated, fares for distances over 200 Km get suddenly more expensive. Many, many times you can save a significant amount by splitting the journey and buying two tickets of under 200 Km, and the discount ticket shops do this regularly.

Interesting, noted.

Come to think of it, are Seishun 18 Kippu valid on limited express trains if you pay the express fare?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

There are some definite mysteries in train fare calculations, and from memory Toei lines were one of them.

The entire existence of Toei is a bit of a mystery...

Toei is Tokyo Metropolitan Government and the Tokyo Metro are the remnants of the old, state-run subways privatized in 1987 (and some new lines opened since then). Toei wasn't involved in the privatization and must charge its exorbitant fees to help cover the costs of thousands of bureaucrats gazing out of windows offering glorious views of downtown Shinjuku, mainly, while they pocket annual salaries of 10 million yen or thereabouts.

[wagyl]

Come to think of it, are Seishun 18 Kippu valid on limited express trains if you pay the express fare?

Once again, from memory, nope. I haven't bothered to burrow down through the JR rules since wikipedia supports my memory.

[yanpa]

There are some definite mysteries in train fare calculations, and from memory Toei lines were one of them.

The entire existence of Toei is a bit of a mystery...

Toei is Tokyo Metropolitan Government and the Tokyo Metro are the remnants of the old, state-run subways privatized in 1987 (and some new lines opened since then). Toei wasn't involved in the privatization and must charge its exorbitant fees to help cover the costs of thousands of bureaucrats gazing out of windows offering glorious views of downtown Shinjuku, mainly, while they pocket annual salaries of 10 million yen or thereabouts.

Eh, wasn't it JR which was privatized in 1987? Tokyo Metro (or more precisely its imperial forerunner Eidan) was privatized in 2004 or so.

[yanpa]

Come to think of it, are Seishun 18 Kippu valid on limited express trains if you pay the express fare?

Once again, from memory, nope. I haven't bothered to burrow down through the JR rules since wikipedia supports my memory.

Ah yes, local/kaisoku pnly but permits purchase of seat reservations where available.

[wagyl]

The entire existence of Toei is a bit of a mystery...

Toei is Tokyo Metropolitan Government and the Tokyo Metro are the remnants of the old, state-run subways privatized in 1987 (and some new lines opened since then). Toei wasn't involved in the privatization and must charge its exorbitant fees to help cover the costs of thousands of bureaucrats gazing out of windows offering glorious views of downtown Shinjuku, mainly, while they pocket annual salaries of 10 million yen or thereabouts.

For me, that mystery goes deeper. I didn't realise it until I found out during the maboroshi 24 hour subway thread, but

It turns out that Tokyo Metro is 53.42% owned by the Ministry of Finance, 46.58% owned by Tokyo Metropolitan Government.　

meaning that Tokyo Metropolitan Government owns 100% of one system and near enough to half of the other, quasi-competing system. They have different wage rates and different loan repayment terms which means that their operations and fare systems are not able to be harmonised easily, but I think it is really a matter of it being just too easy to maintain the status quo. If I ruled the Cosmos there is no way I would let them get away with duplicate administration. Merge already!!!!

[Coligny]

Now for Japan... Don't forget the lemmings effect... If the Shitbox tell them to eat banana in the morning supermarket are empty of long yellow fruits for month... So if the Shitbox say "we japanese supa modern transport have unic in the world computer railpass you must use it".... Then... guess what...

I think you need to get out more...

People already forgot the Asa-banana fiasco ? Or it was just an Aichi thing ?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

]It turns out that Tokyo Metro is 53.42% owned by the Ministry of Finance, 46.58% owned by Tokyo Metropolitan Government.

Let me get this straight....Privatization of the subway system involved selling the national government-owned subway system to a national government ministry and a prefectural government?

[yanpa]

Now for Japan... Don't forget the lemmings effect... If the Shitbox tell them to eat banana in the morning supermarket are empty of long yellow fruits for month... So if the Shitbox say "we japanese supa modern transport have unic in the world computer railpass you must use it".... Then... guess what...

I think you need to get out more...

People already forgot the Asa-banana fiasco ? Or it was just an Aichi thing ?

The problem is not the banana episode, it's the connection with commuter passes which eludes me. Unless the TV has been saying that eating your commuter pass is a good way to lose weight?

[yanpa]

]It turns out that Tokyo Metro is 53.42% owned by the Ministry of Finance, 46.58% owned by Tokyo Metropolitan Government.

Let me get this straight....Privatization of the subway system involved selling the national government-owned subway system to a national government ministry and a prefectural government?

No, the Tokyo subway system was always owned by Tokyo, and the other Tokyo subway system was always owned by Tokyo and Japan. The other Tokyo subway system was privatized and is now owned by Japan and Tokyo. Got that?

[wagyl]

It turns out that Tokyo Metro is 53.42% owned by the Ministry of Finance, 46.58% owned by Tokyo Metropolitan Government.

Let me get this straight....Privatization of the subway system involved selling the national government-owned subway system to a national government ministry and a prefectural government?

Almost correct. The former Teito (Imperial Capital) Rapid Transit Authority, a corporate body pursuant to statutory charter, with capital inputs from the national and prefectural governments, became Tokyo Metro, a corporation, shares not listed, responsible to its shareholders, who happen to be national and prefectural governments. Not really much different from the whole privatisation of the Post Office: you get a new logo and your position gets a different name on the business card, but nothing really changes. Apparently there are plans to list on the stock exchange eventually, but I can imagine that no one is in a hurry to actually do anything about that.

But I think Yanpa put it more clearly.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

]It turns out that Tokyo Metro is 53.42% owned by the Ministry of Finance, 46.58% owned by Tokyo Metropolitan Government.

Let me get this straight....Privatization of the subway system involved selling the national government-owned subway system to a national government ministry and a prefectural government?

No, the Tokyo subway system was always owned by Tokyo, and the other Tokyo subway system was always owned by Tokyo and Japan. The other Tokyo subway system was privatized and is now owned by Japan and Tokyo. Got that?

Got it! Phew, for a second there, I was thinking that they'd privatized the subway by selling it from one government to another government.

[Coligny]

Now for Japan... Don't forget the lemmings effect... If the Shitbox tell them to eat banana in the morning supermarket are empty of long yellow fruits for month... So if the Shitbox say "we japanese supa modern transport have unic in the world computer railpass you must use it".... Then... guess what...

I think you need to get out more...

People already forgot the Asa-banana fiasco ? Or it was just an Aichi thing ?

The problem is not the banana episode, it's the connection with commuter passes which eludes me. Unless the TV has been saying that eating your commuter pass is a good way to lose weight?

The link is in the behavioral pattern. Not in the banana-to-train-ticket link.
People start eating bananas, availability dwindling, OMG people eat banana, must be good, must do same.
Long waiting line for restaurants, OMG must be good, must eat there.
Rush for ETC device when highway got discounts... No matter the actual highway use done...
Car ribbon stickers... I know it's also an happenstance in other countries, but the Japanese ones universally make no fucking sense whatsoever...
pretty sure you could make the same link for wii-fit and rock-band.
Wouldn't take much to manipulate the same demand for stuff like railpass.

All populations tend to have common temporary trends or fashions but with the locals it reach levels where you wonder if you are not facing a 'collective mind' syndrome straight of the worst scifi made for TV movie...

[Russell]

The link is in the behavioral pattern. Not in the banana-to-train-ticket link.
People start eating bananas, availability dwindling, OMG people eat banana, must be good, must do same.
Long waiting line for restaurants, OMG must be good, must eat there.
Rush for ETC device when highway got discounts... No matter the actual highway use done...
Car ribbon stickers... I know it's also an happenstance in other countries, but the Japanese ones universally make no fucking sense whatsoever...
pretty sure you could make the same link for wii-fit and rock-band.
Wouldn't take much to manipulate the same demand for stuff like railpass.

All populations tend to have common temporary trends or fashions but with the locals it reach levels where you wonder if you are not facing a 'collective mind' syndrome straight of the worst scifi made for TV movie...

Still no relation to commuter passes.

My Japanese colleagues know perfectly well how to select the cheapest way from A to B. But they are also subject to administrative rules.