"WHY AREN’T JAPANESE PEOPLE FAT?"

[yanpa]

Spend six months in Japan and then jump on a plane. Head for London, LA, Sydney.

Wherever.

Disembark, take a look around and try to keep your jaw from hitting the floor.

A single word rises unbidden from your subconscious.

Fat.

And it’s everywhere. From the guy at immigration who looks like he was poured into his booth, to the the woman stomping through baggage reclaim like a polyester tsunami.

How the hell did that happen? You’ve only been away 26 weeks.

...continues...

[J.A.F.O]

Yea, last time I went back stateside I was kinda floored. Just looking around was revolting. I was there for about 6 weeks and gained 16 lbs. It all came off once I went back to real food but I was pretty amazed how bad the food is back home.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

My guess is that because so many smoke.
Smoking makes the metabolic rate skyrocket and often stifles comfort-eating.
Low car use, too.
And, of course, shorter intestines.

[Samurai_Jerk]

My guess is that because so many smoke.

You might be correct. I read something a few years back that claimed one of the contributing factors to the rise in obesity rates in the US was the reduction in smoking rates.

And, of course, shorter intestines.

Why do you continue to get this wrong? The claim by the nihonjinron crowd is and always has been that Japanese have longer intestines.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

You might be correct. I read something a few years back that claimed one of the contributing factors to the rise in obesity rates in the US was the reduction in smoking rates.

I'm convinced. Good or bad, smoking keeps your internal organs moving. My have stopped to a standstill since I ceased smoking last summer. I cycle on average 30 km/day and walk 8-10 km daily on average, yet have gained more than 10kg since I stopped. I'm also a worse fucking mental wreck than ever. The psychosomatic influence of nicotine was, for me, far greater than any other of my numerous (and serious) addictions, except perhaps sugar.
But, I'm a sanctimonious non-smoker now!

An unpopular theory that I probably couldn't even mention outside of Japan is that feminism has also been influential. The obesity epidemic corresponds with the rise of New Wave Feminism in the West while more traditional Japan, where women are more often assigned to roles they had always played has stifled the onset of ubiquitous obesity such as that seen in societies where women are more active in the workforce. Japanese women have become more active in the workforce in recent years and. surprise, surprise, obesity rates are increasing. A major contributor to obesity has, I believe, been fast foods and highly processed foods, all of which have become more common in the West as feminism's impact became apparent. In Japan, it is still widespread to shop daily and cook using fresh (albeit irradiated) ingredients, which makes for healthier eating habits.
Before the harpies come screaming for my misogynist balls, I should add that blokes have got an enormous responsibility for this shit happening. We've hardly been supportive of women taking a bigger role in society and they invariably shoulder the bigger burden at home instead of us doing our bit.

[matsuki]

No doubt the US is land of land whales but I'd disagree that Japanese aren't fat. Daikon ashi aside, I'd say most Japanese are "skinny fat."

[gaijinpunch]

I'm w/ choko on this one. Well, I'd say they're unfit, on average. Washoku is crazy healthy -- maybe the last healthy food where you can eat out and be pretty sure it's not going to be 2000 calories of shit. However, the reason I think (totally my opinion) most people aren't particularly fit is the culture surrounding work (all bow to the kaisha) and the culture (not) surrounding exercise. Muscle tone is not fashionable... be unhealthy skinny is though. Someone point me to a statistic showing Japanese memberships per capita versus western (and people that actually go).

While the Japanese populace isn't morbidly obese like it's western counterpart is pretty simple math. The portions are way, way smaller. Any restaurant in the US is going to feed you a bottomless basket of either chips or bread before your fucking meal comes out.

Also: Big Gulp

[Samurai_Jerk]

However, the reason I think (totally my opinion) most people aren't particularly fit is the culture surrounding work (all bow to the kaisha) and the culture (not) surrounding exercise. Muscle tone is not fashionable... be unhealthy skinny is though. Someone point me to a statistic showing Japanese memberships per capita versus western (and people that actually go).

I agree that people here aren't into going to health clubs or weight training but a lot of people (or at least the guys) are involved in organized team sports.

[gaijinpunch]

I agree that people here aren't into going to health clubs or weight training but a lot of people (or at least the guys) are involved in organized team sports.

I didn't know arm waxing was a team sport.

In all seriousness, that works for the youngsters. At the old age of 38, I can state that exercise really needs to be a daily thing lest it start showing in the love handles. This is where it's going to get tricky for the average salaryman. The married ones anyway.

[BigInJapan]

The portions are way, way smaller.

That's it in a nutshell. J folk are always flabbergasted when they tell me about the gargantuan portions served in US restaurants.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I agree that people here aren't into going to health clubs or weight training but a lot of people (or at least the guys) are involved in organized team sports.

I didn't know arm waxing was a team sport.

In all seriousness, that works for the youngsters. At the old age of 38, I can state that exercise really needs to be a daily thing lest it start showing in the love handles. This is where it's going to get tricky for the average salaryman. The married ones anyway.

Exercise is definitely necessary to be healthy but it doesn't have much impact on weight. Like others have stated, the small portions in Japan are why Japanese people aren't fat. You could go on an all cake diet with little exercise and lose weight as long as you only ate 1500 calories of cake a day.

[legion]

I'm w/ choko on this one. Well, I'd say they're unfit, on average.

If they are unfit on average how come the average life expectancy has almost doubled in the last 116 years?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/12/worlds-oldest-person-dies-116

all them farmers are too busy pulling up daikon to hit the gym

[gaijinpunch]

Exercise is definitely necessary to be healthy but it doesn't have much impact on weight.

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does. It has more impact on physique, but I can put off 5kg in a month or so if I really have to, and it requires more than diet. Of course, diet & exercise working in harmony is the real way to do it.

If they are unfit on average how come the average life expectancy has almost doubled in the last 116 years?

I'm sure there's many reasons, but the easiest explanation is you can't say that unfit is the same as unhealthy. Smaller stature + somewhat weakly is probably a lot easier on the heart than someone who is big boned and pudgy. I'm no doctor, but I would guess that has some truth to it.

I've personally always wondered how the stress didn't kill them off in droves.

[legion]

I'm sure there's many reasons, but the easiest explanation is you can't say that unfit is the same as unhealthy.

maybe they don't wear themselves out doing exercise

[Samurai_Jerk]

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does.

Not according to all the latest studies.

[yanpa]

according to latest studies, anything (or lack thereof) will helps/will not help/will kill you/will make you live forever.

Where are we on butter these days?

[Russell]

Actually, being fat after the age of 60 is rather healthy, statistically spoken.

Some fat on the body also comes in handy in a serious illness during which one hardly eats. In those circumstances, it's the skinnies who die first.

I am not saying this because of my weight. When I visited Texas a couple of years back I was considered on the thin side. (Here in Japan, though, my health check says that I am overweight, but I don't give a fuck, because I haven't been ill for more than a decade and feel great).

[Kanchou]

It's not one big reason, it's a whole bunch of small reasons stacked together.

1. The Japanese tend to walk or ride short distances, or simply don't drive at all.

2. Japanese food is low in fat and high in vitamins. Otoh it's very high in processed grains...

3. Eating until your only partially full (hara hachibunme) is part of Japanese culture.

4. I would hazard to guess that a larger number of people in Japan are "supertasters," people with higher numbers of taste buds, who tend to not prefer spicy, salty, meaty, fatty foods, or alcohol (and also can't stand bitter foods). They tend to be skinnier. By comparison, non-tasters love hot, meaty, fatty, salty foods and alcohol, aren't affected by bitter flavors, and tend to be weigh more. Considering I can eat raw goya, guess which one I am? (hehe)

5. Japanese people can't hold their liquor or simply can't drink, so they don't consume as much alcohol, meaning less wasted calories (I say, I as a drink a cocktail with 3 oz of whisky over the course of about... two minutes).

6. Genetics. They just eat less. By comparison, fat people have been proven to have brains that make them eat more, and eat worse. In the end, the primary reason that any large, racially homogenous group does anything is either culture or genetics. It also explains why they can scarf down so much white rice without catching the 'betus.

7. Economics. Food is fucking expensive in Japan. It costs a fortune to keep someone with my size and appetite fed here. If I was unemployed I would literally starve in a month, and end up as "Unemployed gaijin gashi's like a chump" in the news. Everything here is in a smaller proportion, if not in actual size, at least in proportion to the cost. A canned beer in Japan costs 10 times what a comparable product does in the U.S.

8. Recent history. The Japanese we know today are alive because they were able to survive starvation after WWII. Decades of poverty also has a big effect on culture.

[climb678]

I am hoping this is sarcastically written, but none-the-less I will hazard a poorly written response:

It's not one big reason, it's a whole bunch of small reasons stacked together.

1. The Japanese tend to walk or ride short distances, or simply don't drive at all.
Depends on the city/town, though the lack of school buses helps

2. Japanese food is low in fat and high in vitamins. Otoh it's very high in processed grains...
Not all of it, ex: Japanese bread (mostly highly processed white flour), grocery store tempura, McDonalds, etc...

3. Eating until your only partially full (hara hachibunme) is part of Japanese culture.
Plenty of people eat until fully full

4. I would hazard to guess that a larger number of people in Japan are "supertasters," people with higher numbers of taste buds, who tend to not prefer spicy, salty, meaty, fatty foods, or alcohol (and also can't stand bitter foods). They tend to be skinnier. By comparison, non-tasters love hot, meaty, fatty, salty foods and alcohol, aren't affected by bitter flavors, and tend to be weigh more. Considering I can eat raw goya, guess which one I am? (hehe)
I don't agree, most beef in Japan is highly fatty (thus much better tasting than the lean shit in U.S. stores), grocery store tempura, convenience store food, McDonalds, etc...and salt is everywhere. Are you serious about Alcohol! In my perspective there is certainly as much drinking in Japan as the fat old U.S.A. (I am from the U.S.), maybe more.

5. Japanese people can't hold their liquor or simply can't drink, so they don't consume as much alcohol, meaning less wasted calories (I say, I as a drink a cocktail with 3 oz of whisky over the course of about... two minutes).
See comment to last response, also come to Tokushima and observe the amount of alcohol many (most?) middle aged people consume

6. Genetics. They just eat less. By comparison, fat people have been proven to have brains that make them eat more, and eat worse. In the end, the primary reason that any large, racially homogenous group does anything is either culture or genetics. It also explains why they can scarf down so much white rice without catching the 'betus.
Read a history book about the history of white rice and Japan.

7. Economics. Food is fucking expensive in Japan. It costs a fortune to keep someone with my size and appetite fed here. If I was unemployed I would literally starve in a month, and end up as "Unemployed gaijin gashi's like a chump" in the news. Everything here is in a smaller proportion, if not in actual size, at least in proportion to the cost. A canned beer in Japan costs 10 times what a comparable product does in the U.S.
Plenty of cheap food. Though, quality food is expensive.

8. Recent history. The Japanese we know today are alive because they were able to survive starvation after WWII. Decades of poverty also has a big effect on culture.
That was over 5 decades ago and Japan has had decades of relative wealth, but maybe there are some lingering societal influences...
I apologize if my response seems harsh, and I really don't have an answer to why many Japanese people aren't fat (actually plenty are fat) probably like you said its due to a combination of factors.

[Kanchou]

1. The Japanese tend to walk or ride short distances, or simply don't drive at all.
Depends on the city/town, though the lack of school buses helps

I agree, it depends on the area, but only the poorest of the poor in America don't drive. In Japan lots of old people walk everywhere, and more people don't own cars, even in the inaka where you really need one.

2. Japanese food is low in fat and high in vitamins. Otoh it's very high in processed grains...
Not all of it, ex: Japanese bread (mostly highly processed white flour), grocery store tempura, McDonalds, etc...

Japanese bread is pretty sweet, but again, it's much more costly than rice, so the majority of Japanese people don't subside on it. Tempura is still lower in fat than typical American-style fried food (there's probably a scientific reason why). Tonkatsu is just as bad, but the Japanese tend to eat less of it than we would. I can never bring myself to by just one tonkatsu/kurokke at the grocery store, but I figure the average J-person buys one per person.

3. Eating until your only partially full (hara hachibunme) is part of Japanese culture.
Plenty of people eat until fully full

Again, plenty of Americans don't eat until their full, but look at the obesity rate

4. I would hazard to guess that a larger number of people in Japan are "supertasters," people with higher numbers of taste buds, who tend to not prefer spicy, salty, meaty, fatty foods, or alcohol (and also can't stand bitter foods). They tend to be skinnier. By comparison, non-tasters love hot, meaty, fatty, salty foods and alcohol, aren't affected by bitter flavors, and tend to be weigh more. Considering I can eat raw goya, guess which one I am? (hehe)
I don't agree, most beef in Japan is highly fatty (thus much better tasting than the lean shit in U.S. stores), grocery store tempura, convenience store food, McDonalds, etc...and salt is everywhere. Are you serious about Alcohol! In my perspective there is certainly as much drinking in Japan as the fat old U.S.A. (I am from the U.S.), maybe more.

Yes, but marbled Japanese beef costs literally dozens of times what it does in the U.S., so far less of it is consumed. The average Japanese oyaji might have one or two cans of beer, or drink a couple mizuwaris of shochu, but think about what how many beers or whiskeys the average blue-collar dad drinks in the US a day. Maybe a six pack? Half a bottle of Jack?

5. Japanese people can't hold their liquor or simply can't drink, so they don't consume as much alcohol, meaning less wasted calories (I say, I as a drink a cocktail with 3 oz of whisky over the course of about... two minutes).
See comment to last response, also come to Tokushima and observe the amount of alcohol many (most?) middle aged people consume

I haven't been there, but the amount that is consumed socially isn't necessarily the same as the average over the course of a month, etc.

6. Genetics. They just eat less. By comparison, fat people have been proven to have brains that make them eat more, and eat worse. In the end, the primary reason that any large, racially homogenous group does anything is either culture or genetics. It also explains why they can scarf down so much white rice without catching the 'betus.
Read a history book about the history of white rice and Japan.

...where? What book? What are you trying to say?

7. Economics. Food is fucking expensive in Japan. It costs a fortune to keep someone with my size and appetite fed here. If I was unemployed I would literally starve in a month, and end up as "Unemployed gaijin gashi's like a chump" in the news. Everything here is in a smaller proportion, if not in actual size, at least in proportion to the cost. A canned beer in Japan costs 10 times what a comparable product does in the U.S.
Plenty of cheap food. Though, quality food is expensive.

Relatively cheap. There is literally nothing in Japan that is cheaper than its equivalent in the U.S., except MAYBE sushi (the spinning kind), sake, shochu, and used Japanese cars (if you don't include dealer fees). A bag of potato chips will cost you 3-5 times as much. The cheapest rice will cost you at least twice (or more) as much. Beef is 5-7 times as much. High-grade steak costs... an order of magnitude as much. Beer is 10 times cheaper. Anything else is only cheaper because of lower taxes (cigarettes, and even that's pretty much gone). But the most damning thing is fruits and vegetables, which are so expensive that you're almost better off eating out if you want them.

8. Recent history. The Japanese we know today are alive because they were able to survive starvation after WWII. Decades of poverty also has a big effect on culture.
That was over 5 decades ago and Japan has had decades of relative wealth, but maybe there are some lingering societal influences...

Five decades ago means the people who lived through that time are (mostly) still alive, and still have a major influence on the way today's children are raised.

I apologize if my response seems harsh, and I really don't have an answer to why many Japanese people aren't fat (actually plenty are fat) probably like you said its due to a combination of factors.

No need to apologize... the only reason I post on forums is because I like to get drunk and argue with people.

[climb678]

No need to apologize... the only reason I post on forums is because I like to get drunk and argue with people.

Thanks. Some of my best forum responses have been written when intoxicated. Some of my worst/most embarrassing also.

[Samurai_Jerk]

It's not one big reason, it's a whole bunch of small reasons stacked together.

1. The Japanese tend to walk or ride short distances, or simply don't drive at all.

2. Japanese food is low in fat and high in vitamins. Otoh it's very high in processed grains...

3. Eating until your only partially full (hara hachibunme) is part of Japanese culture.

4. I would hazard to guess that a larger number of people in Japan are "supertasters," people with higher numbers of taste buds, who tend to not prefer spicy, salty, meaty, fatty foods, or alcohol (and also can't stand bitter foods). They tend to be skinnier. By comparison, non-tasters love hot, meaty, fatty, salty foods and alcohol, aren't affected by bitter flavors, and tend to be weigh more. Considering I can eat raw goya, guess which one I am? (hehe)

5. Japanese people can't hold their liquor or simply can't drink, so they don't consume as much alcohol, meaning less wasted calories (I say, I as a drink a cocktail with 3 oz of whisky over the course of about... two minutes).

6. Genetics. They just eat less. By comparison, fat people have been proven to have brains that make them eat more, and eat worse. In the end, the primary reason that any large, racially homogenous group does anything is either culture or genetics. It also explains why they can scarf down so much white rice without catching the 'betus.

7. Economics. Food is fucking expensive in Japan. It costs a fortune to keep someone with my size and appetite fed here. If I was unemployed I would literally starve in a month, and end up as "Unemployed gaijin gashi's like a chump" in the news. Everything here is in a smaller proportion, if not in actual size, at least in proportion to the cost. A canned beer in Japan costs 10 times what a comparable product does in the U.S.

8. Recent history. The Japanese we know today are alive because they were able to survive starvation after WWII. Decades of poverty also has a big effect on culture.

Man, there's a lot of nihohjinron bullshit in there.

[gaijinpunch]

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does.

Not according to all the latest studies.

The latest studies generally have always proven the same thing: everyone's body is different. Speaking from experience, I cannot lose weight if I don't do a lot of cardio. I'm also larger than average (well, taller) even in the west.

Anyway, send a link if you can. Would be interested in reading something that proves raising your metabolism through cardio does not cause weight loss.

Some fat on the body also comes in handy in a serious illness during which one hardly eats. In those circumstances, it's the skinnies who die first.

Fat stores nutrients. This is not rocket science, and not new. A no-fat diet is a terrible one if you want to be healthy.

[canman]

I don't understand this fixation on white bread and white rice. For years and years, most North Americans ate Wonder bread, and Uncle Ben's rice, and I don't think there was such a problem with obesity as there is now. Perhaps the fact that people ate one sandwich, or one small serving of rice had something to do with it.
I'm not saying that the stuff is healthy, but it seems to me that Japanese people eat it in more moderation than we have become accustomed to in the West. Hell I was at home last winter, and for a breakfast for 5 people, my aunt toasted an entire loaf of bread, the North American style with about 17 slices. This on top of eggs, sausage, bacon!

[MrUltimateGaijin]

I think another thing that leads to fatter populations is "critical mass" (pardon the pun). Basically, the more fatties people see around them, the less concerned they are about their own increasing girth.

[Samurai_Jerk]

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does.

Not according to all the latest studies.

The latest studies generally have always proven the same thing: everyone's body is different. Speaking from experience, I cannot lose weight if I don't do a lot of cardio. I'm also larger than average (well, taller) even in the west.

Anyway, send a link if you can. Would be interested in reading something that proves raising your metabolism through cardio does not cause weight loss.

This is an overview of some recent research. What they are finding is that in general low calorie diets do more for weight loss than exercise. "But what about those Olympians who eat 5000 calories a day and stay slim?", you might ask. Few people have the time or ability to train like that and a lot of those stories are exaggerated. Think about sumo wrestlers or some rugby and football players who train extremely hard but stay fat. It's because they eat a ton of food.

[MrUltimateGaijin]

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does.

Not according to all the latest studies.

The latest studies generally have always proven the same thing: everyone's body is different. Speaking from experience, I cannot lose weight if I don't do a lot of cardio. I'm also larger than average (well, taller) even in the west.

Anyway, send a link if you can. Would be interested in reading something that proves raising your metabolism through cardio does not cause weight loss.

This is an overview of some recent research. What they are finding is that in general low calorie diets do more for weight loss than exercise. "But what about those Olympians who eat 5000 calories a day and stay slim?", you might ask. Few people have the time or ability to train like that and a lot of those stories are exaggerated. Think about sumo wrestlers or some rugby and football players who train extremely hard but stay fat. It's because they eat a ton of food.

Basically they are saying that it's easier: because people can't be bothered to exercise enough. But, perhaps, if people can do enough exercise than it is just as effective. Of course, even if people diet and lose weight, they are not going to get the cardiovascular benefits of exercise, or the benefits of some extra muscle mass.

[Samurai_Jerk]

If you do it right (IE, plenty of cardio) it definitely does.

Not according to all the latest studies.

The latest studies generally have always proven the same thing: everyone's body is different. Speaking from experience, I cannot lose weight if I don't do a lot of cardio. I'm also larger than average (well, taller) even in the west.

Anyway, send a link if you can. Would be interested in reading something that proves raising your metabolism through cardio does not cause weight loss.

This is an overview of some recent research. What they are finding is that in general low calorie diets do more for weight loss than exercise. "But what about those Olympians who eat 5000 calories a day and stay slim?", you might ask. Few people have the time or ability to train like that and a lot of those stories are exaggerated. Think about sumo wrestlers or some rugby and football players who train extremely hard but stay fat. It's because they eat a ton of food.

Basically they are saying that it's easier: because people can't be bothered to exercise enough. But, perhaps, if people can do enough exercise than it is just as effective. Of course, even if people diet and lose weight, they are not going to get the cardiovascular benefits of exercise, or the benefits of some extra muscle mass.

No one is saying you shouldn't exercise because there are a lot of health benefits besides weight loss and it's the best way to get rid of visceral fat. However, even if you exercise for an hour almost every day, you aren't going to lose much weight if you're also consuming 3000+ calories a day. Most people don't have the time to do much more than that.

[MrUltimateGaijin]

Eating less calories is perhaps a bit easier for people who aren't used to exercising. They could even has the same number of meals, just change the content.

As the Japanese, give them time.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Eating less calories is perhaps a bit easier for people who aren't used to exercising. They could even has the same number of meals, just change the content.

As the Japanese, give them time.

I'm one of those people who can train like crazy but don't lose more than a few pounds unless I drastically change my diet. I used to do 2 - 4 hours of Brazilian jiu-jitsu 3 to 4 times a week and jog 5 miles 2 times a week. I lost 5 lbs over several months. Then I stopped jogging because I hated it but kept doing BJJ and cut carbs and alcohol and lost 30 lbs in 3 months.