Leased Land

[Bucky]

I am beginning to sense some tension in the relationship between my wife and her sister.

Both sisters are now in their mid-fifties. My wife and I live on the Left Coast and visit Japan about once a year. The sister lives with her husband in Setagaya ku in the family house that was handed down from the deceased father.

The father died in 2000. The house and land were in names of the two sisters. Upon the father's death the estate was divided equally with my wife getting more cash and the sister getting the house (but not the land, it stayed in both names) and some other assets.

I have tried to stay out of the sister-sister dealings but now I am being asked for my opinion.

I am wondering if any FG's have had occasion to lease land before? My wife now says that big sis has had 13 years of living on that land without paying rent to my wife and she is wondering if she should start negotiating over the land. My wife is thinking, "gosh, I should have my sister pay me for the 13 years of use of that land."

My one suggestion 13 years ago when dad died was to sell the place and split everything. That would've been a clean and easy split. However there was all the sentimental attachment to the property so that was not done.

Now my wife does not feel comfortable staying at big sis' place as she feels she is imposing and it makes visiting Japan more expensive as we've lost our formerly taken-for-granted lodging.

Anyway, before we have World War III I am trying to get as much information as I can. We don't know the precise value of the land. We think it between 40,000,000 and 60,000,000 yens and getting big sis to fork over half of that may not be feasible.

We could propose to build a duplex on the property with half for us and half for the sister. Our son lives in Tokyo and could be the full-time resident of our half and we could stay with him on our visits.

Or we could force sis to join us and sell it and cash out. (easiest and cleanest solution) But it ain't that easy. I wish it was.

Any constructive thoughts on our situation?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I am beginning to sense some tension in the relationship between my wife and her sister.

Both sisters are now in their mid-fifties. My wife and I live on the Left Coast and visit Japan about once a year. The sister lives with her husband in Setagaya ku in the family house that was handed down from the deceased father.

The father died in 2000. The house and land were in names of the two sisters. Upon the father's death the estate was divided equally with my wife getting more cash and the sister getting the house (but not the land, it stayed in both names) and some other assets.

I have tried to stay out of the sister-sister dealings but now I am being asked for my opinion.

I am wondering if any FG's have had occasion to lease land before? My wife now says that big sis has had 13 years of living on that land without paying rent to my wife and she is wondering if she should start negotiating over the land. My wife is thinking, "gosh, I should have my sister pay me for the 13 years of use of that land."

My one suggestion 13 years ago when dad died was to sell the place and split everything. That would've been a clean and easy split. However there was all the sentimental attachment to the property so that was not done.

Now my wife does not feel comfortable staying at big sis' place as she feels she is imposing and it makes visiting Japan more expensive as we've lost our formerly taken-for-granted lodging.

Anyway, before we have World War III I am trying to get as much information as I can. We don't know the precise value of the land. We think it between 40,000,000 and 60,000,000 yens and getting big sis to fork over half of that may not be feasible.

We could propose to build a duplex on the property with half for us and half for the sister. Our son lives in Tokyo and could be the full-time resident of our half and we could stay with him on our visits.

Or we could force sis to join us and sell it and cash out. (easiest and cleanest solution) But it ain't that easy. I wish it was.

Any constructive thoughts on our situation?

Does your wife need the money that much?
Was anything formal drawn up between the sisters?
You could probably fight sis, and win something, but win or lose you're still eventually dependent on her goodwill/ability to pay. Possession is hers, so it's a tough fight. I'd recommend sitting down and talking things over together. If that's not possible, ask a lawyer.

By the way, if it's your birthday today, as the site tells me it is, many happy returns!

[Coligny]

Captn' obvious to the rescue...


You don't win war with good intentions.

You decide if you want to go to war...

But whatever value you sell the land, it's gonna be half minus the money you got from not having the house maybe plus the estimated depreciation of the building for 13 years... And a lot of bad feelings everywhere...

Or you can blow everything in a drone strike when the inlaws are at home, solving all problems at once... Just need to say sorry you thought it was an afghan wedding...

[wagyl]

If your wife feels that she is imposing when she makes an annual visit, then how is she going to feel if she asks her sister for money? Or making her sister move out of her home, even if only temporarily while two dwellings are built on the plot? Either of those options seems more severe than asking for use of the guest room and sharing the bathroom on occasion.

Tenant rights are strong here, it can be incredibly difficult to dislodge an occupant reluctant to leave. Hence the rumours involving the services of digitally challenged gentlemen with artwork on their backs. It may be better to just walk away, and wait for payment of half value when the land is eventually sold. Bad blood within families over estate issues is evil.

A possible compromise, is to get a valuation of annual rent for half the land, and inform the sister that in place of asking for that money you would be happy to be a guest annually. In other words, restore and formalise the status quo.

[matsuki]

If I were in your shoes I'd fly over here and discuss it with the sister in person. Explain (honestly) that the situation has become uncomfortable and you want to resolve it amicable and cleanly. Don't mention lawyers, court, etc. or anything likely to entrench the sister or escalate the situation. I wouldn't bring up back rent AT ALL...that should have been discussed when the sister first moved in and since it wasn't, it's just going to cause unnecessary drama. (and the sis should realize that, on her own, that your wife could have asked for that and by not asking for it then or now, be less likely to protest) Once the situation is explained, I'd ask the sister what their future plans are. Do they want to remain there? Move? Tell them that you want to resolve the issue without interfering with their life plans and get their ideas for resolution before you suggest anything. With any luck, it'll work out.

Unfortunately, if they aren't reasonable, it's likely going to get ugly. I've heard soo many horror stories about siblings fighting over money/asset inheritance here.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

If I were in your shoes I'd fly over here and discuss it with the sister in person. Explain (honestly) that the situation has become uncomfortable and you want to resolve it amicable and cleanly. Don't mention lawyers, court, etc. or anything likely to entrench the sister or escalate the situation. I wouldn't bring up back rent AT ALL...that should have been discussed when the sister first moved in and since it wasn't, it's just going to cause unnecessary drama. (and the sis should realize that, on her own, that your wife could have asked for that and by not asking for it then or now, be less likely to protest) Once the situation is explained, I'd ask the sister what their future plans are. Do they want to remain there? Move? Tell them that you want to resolve the issue without interfering with their life plans and get their ideas for resolution before you suggest anything. With any luck, it'll work out.

Unfortunately, if they aren't reasonable, it's likely going to get ugly. I've heard soo many horror stories about siblings fighting over money/asset inheritance here.

Wow! Did you cut your dick off?

[Samurai_Jerk]

I've heard soo many horror stories about siblings fighting over money/asset inheritance here.

Only here?

[matsuki]

I've heard soo many horror stories about siblings fighting over money/asset inheritance here.

Only here?

Noway...can happen anywhere but all the worst stories I've heard have been over here.

Just as an example, my boss here, he paid to rebuild this double home and has been paying his parents bills for years. His younger sister married way late and the poor guy that knocked her up hasn't been the most successful. (he's a super nice guy though, I honestly feel bad he married that demon woman) Anyhow, the younger sister lived at home for 10+ years after the rebuild and when she moved out, her old room became storage for products we import. Her name is not on the home, the land, anything, and the parents are still alive. The sister had lived rent/utility free for all those years....but as soon as she saw her old room was being used by my boss, she started demanding rent No legal ground to demand anything but even worse, who the fuck does that???

[legion]

The value of the land is clear cut, the city bases the property tax bill on it.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I've heard soo many horror stories about siblings fighting over money/asset inheritance here.

Only here?

Noway...can happen anywhere but all the worst stories I've heard have been over here.

Just as an example, my boss here, he paid to rebuild this double home and has been paying his parents bills for years. His younger sister married way late and the poor guy that knocked her up hasn't been the most successful. (he's a super nice guy though, I honestly feel bad he married that demon woman) Anyhow, the younger sister lived at home for 10+ years after the rebuild and when she moved out, her old room became storage for products we import. Her name is not on the home, the land, anything, and the parents are still alive. The sister had lived rent/utility free for all those years....but as soon as she saw her old room was being used by my boss, she started demanding rent No legal ground to demand anything but even worse, who the fuck does that???

I'm pretty sure one of my brothers would do that to me....he invited my family to have Christmas dinner with his family (at his home with my then wife and I helping prepare the meal), then charged me for expenses. I'm pretty sure he's prepared well to rip off the rest of us siblings once our remaining parent leaves this mortal coil.

[Coligny]

Hey, at least with you it's the siblings that are the assholes... My dad called me the day before my highschool final exam to tell me he was striking me off of his will for some bullshit reasons... Certainly one being that his first house will go to his trophy wife (who can lose at a scrabble game while playing against a team formed by unplugged vacuum cleaner and other household appliances) and the other to my half sister (the dumb as fuck one, not the human bilbo catcher).
It sure helped him good capital wise not to pay any child support when he divorced my mum who enjoyed so much her new proud and courageous victim status that she didn't do anything legally against him. And just dumped me to my grand parents...

[matsuki]

Hey, at least with you it's the siblings that are the assholes... My dad called me the day before my highschool final exam to tell me he was striking me off of his will for some bullshit reasons... Certainly one being that his first house will go to his trophy wife (who can lose at a scrabble game while playing against a team formed by unplugged vacuum cleaner and other household appliances) and the other to my half sister (the dumb as fuck one, not the human bilbo catcher).
It sure helped him good capital wise not to pay any child support when he divorced my mum who enjoyed so much her new proud and courageous victim status that she didn't do anything legally against him. And just dumped me to my grand parents...

Dayam, now that is a new level of asshole!

[Bucky]

Thanks for the replies. And Hair, thanks for the birthday wishes. It WAS my birthday on the 16th, your remembered.

My wife has found some other things to think of right now so I am not pushing the issue. I will post any updates. Right now our oldest son is living in Naka Meguro and has a big enough place that we can stay for a short time and not inconvenience him too much.

I agree that the sisters need to talk in person and work the issue out.

Thanks,

Buck

[matsuki]

Happy birthday and make sure you take care of the issue...the longer it festers, the harder it will be to resolve.