JAL 787 on fire !!!! OMG WTF BBQ...

[Coligny]

And again... 787 (maybe) on fire... but foamed up like the real deal...

That thing is a Ford Pinto with wings...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760

[wagyl]

And again... 787 (maybe) on fire... but foamed up like the real deal...

That thing is a Ford Pinto with wings...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760

Together with the rare sighting of a multiple sentence paragraph on the BBC site!

[Russell]

And again... 787 (maybe) on fire... but foamed up like the real deal...

That thing is a Ford Pinto with wings...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760

Together with the rare sighting of a multiple sentence paragraph on the BBC site!

But aren't you glad that there at least some multi-line sentences in the piece?

[matsuki]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-1 ... crash.html

Why can't Japan do shit like this...

“The incident has undermined the country’s credibility,” Kwon said in the interview in Sejong, near Seoul. “We need to reexamine our regulations and come up with stricter rules to regain that confidence.”
Four officials from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing will be in Seoul later this month or early August to review Asiana’s training programs and meet government officials, Kwon said.
Fatal Crashes
After three fatal crashes between 1997 and 1999, South Korea adopted stricter regulations, including appointing safety inspectors who periodically check whether airlines follow rules, he said. Carriers have also hired more foreign pilots to improve communication within the cockpit.
“Hiring foreign pilots has helped ease the hierarchy that existed in the cockpit,” Kwon said. “Communication among the pilots has improved a lot.”
A Korean Air Lines Co. (003490) Boeing 747 struck a hilltop in Guam on Aug. 6, 1997, killing 228 of the 254 people aboard. The NTSB said the co-pilot and flight engineer failed to monitor the captain, who had gotten too low, and found Korean Air’s training “inadequate.”
Among the more than 2,000 pilots Korean carriers hired in the past five years, 24 percent were foreigners while 29 percent came from the military, Kwon said.

[Mike Oxlong]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-16/south-korea-plans-stricter-rules-in-3-months-after-asiana-crash.html

Why can't Japan do shit like this...

“The incident has undermined the country’s credibility,” Kwon said in the interview in Sejong, near Seoul. “We need to reexamine our regulations and come up with stricter rules to regain that confidence.”
Four officials from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board, the Federal Aviation Administration and Boeing will be in Seoul later this month or early August to review Asiana’s training programs and meet government officials, Kwon said.
Fatal Crashes
After three fatal crashes between 1997 and 1999, South Korea adopted stricter regulations, including appointing safety inspectors who periodically check whether airlines follow rules, he said. Carriers have also hired more foreign pilots to improve communication within the cockpit.
“Hiring foreign pilots has helped ease the hierarchy that existed in the cockpit,” Kwon said. “Communication among the pilots has improved a lot.”
A Korean Air Lines Co. (003490) Boeing 747 struck a hilltop in Guam on Aug. 6, 1997, killing 228 of the 254 people aboard. The NTSB said the co-pilot and flight engineer failed to monitor the captain, who had gotten too low, and found Korean Air’s training “inadequate.”
Among the more than 2,000 pilots Korean carriers hired in the past five years, 24 percent were foreigners while 29 percent came from the military, Kwon said.

All fair and good, but what are the respective safety records over the period of time in question?

[matsuki]

The way the article reads, they improved since the action was taken. I'm more saying "in general" that Korea is actually admitting "Korean culture" (well, without saying it) resulted in less than ideal communication and hierarchy within the cockpit and the solution was to hire more foreign pilots. They actually followed through and claim the introduction of foreigners improved the communication and hierarchy. I've known far more Koreans to be crazy nationalistic than Japanese but if even they can get over the "our culture is superior" BS and bring in foreigners to dissolve the status quo, why can't Japan?

Hell, the first statement admits there is a problem and they need to take action...then they go on to set a reasonable timeline for review (about 3 months) while stating they are considering even more foreign pilots as part of the solution. Can you imagine Japan doing something like this?

[Mike Oxlong]

The way the article reads, they improved since the action was taken. I'm more saying "in general" that Korea is actually admitting "Korean culture" (well, without saying it) resulted in less than ideal communication and hierarchy within the cockpit and the solution was to hire more foreign pilots. They actually followed through and claim the introduction of foreigners improved the communication and hierarchy. I've known far more Koreans to be crazy nationalistic than Japanese but if even they can get over the "our culture is superior" BS and bring in foreigners to dissolve the status quo, why can't Japan?

Hell, the first statement admits there is a problem and they need to take action...then they go on to set a reasonable timeline for review (about 3 months) while stating they are considering even more foreign pilots as part of the solution. Can you imagine Japan doing something like this?

Not really, can't imagine Japan doing that, other than in a scapegoat/patsie sort of role. But, still more likely to use a J-airline when the same route is serviced by both a K and a J-bird...

[matsuki]

The way the article reads, they improved since the action was taken. I'm more saying "in general" that Korea is actually admitting "Korean culture" (well, without saying it) resulted in less than ideal communication and hierarchy within the cockpit and the solution was to hire more foreign pilots. They actually followed through and claim the introduction of foreigners improved the communication and hierarchy. I've known far more Koreans to be crazy nationalistic than Japanese but if even they can get over the "our culture is superior" BS and bring in foreigners to dissolve the status quo, why can't Japan?

Hell, the first statement admits there is a problem and they need to take action...then they go on to set a reasonable timeline for review (about 3 months) while stating they are considering even more foreign pilots as part of the solution. Can you imagine Japan doing something like this?

Not really, can't imagine Japan doing that, other than in a scapegoat/patsie sort of role. But, still more likely to use a J-airline when the same route is serviced by both a K and a J-bird...

...and I keep using Singapore. Fuck ANA at any price and I'm sure JAL is nice but too pricey....whereas Singapore never fails to keep me happy when flying.

[Mike Oxlong]

The way the article reads, they improved since the action was taken. I'm more saying "in general" that Korea is actually admitting "Korean culture" (well, without saying it) resulted in less than ideal communication and hierarchy within the cockpit and the solution was to hire more foreign pilots. They actually followed through and claim the introduction of foreigners improved the communication and hierarchy. I've known far more Koreans to be crazy nationalistic than Japanese but if even they can get over the "our culture is superior" BS and bring in foreigners to dissolve the status quo, why can't Japan?

Hell, the first statement admits there is a problem and they need to take action...then they go on to set a reasonable timeline for review (about 3 months) while stating they are considering even more foreign pilots as part of the solution. Can you imagine Japan doing something like this?

Not really, can't imagine Japan doing that, other than in a scapegoat/patsie sort of role. But, still more likely to use a J-airline when the same route is serviced by both a K and a J-bird...

...and I keep using Singapore. Fuck ANA at any price and I'm sure JAL is nice but too pricey....whereas Singapore never fails to keep me happy when flying.

I hear the same sentiments uttered by many who fly the left coast-land of wa routes.

[matsuki]

The way the article reads, they improved since the action was taken. I'm more saying "in general" that Korea is actually admitting "Korean culture" (well, without saying it) resulted in less than ideal communication and hierarchy within the cockpit and the solution was to hire more foreign pilots. They actually followed through and claim the introduction of foreigners improved the communication and hierarchy. I've known far more Koreans to be crazy nationalistic than Japanese but if even they can get over the "our culture is superior" BS and bring in foreigners to dissolve the status quo, why can't Japan?

Hell, the first statement admits there is a problem and they need to take action...then they go on to set a reasonable timeline for review (about 3 months) while stating they are considering even more foreign pilots as part of the solution. Can you imagine Japan doing something like this?

Not really, can't imagine Japan doing that, other than in a scapegoat/patsie sort of role. But, still more likely to use a J-airline when the same route is serviced by both a K and a J-bird...

...and I keep using Singapore. Fuck ANA at any price and I'm sure JAL is nice but too pricey....whereas Singapore never fails to keep me happy when flying.

I hear the same sentiments uttered by many who fly the left coast-land of wa routes.

It sucks, I used to love ANA and they were cheaper...hence 2 ANA credit cards and my ANA PRACHINUMU status...but now I'm all about Singapore!

[Mike Oxlong]

Crew names sound Chinese though:

214.jpg

Ho Lee Fuk! That's NOT a Photoshop job!

No, but it's a prank from a summer intern at the NTSB.

I'm not sure that is the full story. Here is the TV channel's apology (and I would have hoped that those names would have rung some bells in the more Asian-diversity-aware San Francisco Bay area, but I suppose we are talking about Oakland). It is not entirely clear where they got the names from at first. They say that they rang the National Transportation Safety Board to verify the names, only spelling them out. The person who they got through to when they called who verified the information was the summer intern, but they don't state in unequivocal words who the source is (unless it is standard procedure for a Fox News affiliate to "verify" by confirming with the source only.) Note that they say their mistake was was not getting the name, rank and serial number of the NTSB drone, not that their mistake was in verifying insufficiently per se.

These names damaged Asiana's sterling reputation as a world leader in "almost landing planes"...

Asiana Airlines to Sue California TV Station for "Racist Fake Pilot Names"

[wagyl]

These names damaged Asiana's sterling reputation as a world leader in "almost landing planes"...

Asiana Airlines to Sue California TV Station for "Racist Fake Pilot Names"

I honestly cannot fathom what damage to the reputation of a company there is in (being negligently falsely represented as) having employees with ridiculous names, and it opens a number of cans of worms: do people with ridiculous names become unemployable? Can the employer force them to change their names? However, I am keeping my popcorn warm.

[Coligny]

These names damaged Asiana's sterling reputation as a world leader in "almost landing planes"...

Asiana Airlines to Sue California TV Station for "Racist Fake Pilot Names"

I honestly cannot fathom what damage to the reputation of a company there is in (being negligently falsely represented as) having employees with ridiculous names, and it opens a number of cans of worms: do people with ridiculous names become unemployable? Can the employer force them to change their names? However, I am keeping my popcorn warm.

Compared to crashing a fucking plane because your pilots are push button goons only... seriously WTF...

They all admitted that their pilot lack's in ability to manually fly planes...

FFS... my sister have spend 10 year in a plane where the only electronic device was her music sensitive ipod dildo plug...

[matsuki]

These names damaged Asiana's sterling reputation as a world leader in "almost landing planes"...

Asiana Airlines to Sue California TV Station for "Racist Fake Pilot Names"

I honestly cannot fathom what damage to the reputation of a company there is in (being negligently falsely represented as) having employees with ridiculous names, and it opens a number of cans of worms: do people with ridiculous names become unemployable? Can the employer force them to change their names? However, I am keeping my popcorn warm.

Compared to crashing a fucking plane because your pilots are push button goons only... seriously WTF...

They all admitted that their pilot lack's in ability to manually fly planes...

FFS... my sister have spend 10 year in a plane where the only electronic device was her music sensitive ipod dildo plug...

What a joke...if anything, the pilots would have benefited from not having their real names broadcast.

Too bad they weren't Japanese...

Hitashi Waru

Tsuro Kurashi

Ooshita Maimisu

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

What a joke...if anything, the pilots would have benefited from not having their real names broadcast.

Too bad they weren't Japanese...

Hitashi Waru

Tsuro Kurashi

Ooshita Maimisu

Flying to Muscat International Airport?

[Coligny]

That stuff is not even funny anymore...

Fark to the rescue:

On the bright side, the Dreamliner fleet made it a whole nine days without a major incident [Scary]

Fuel pump issues this time...

http://m.wcvb.com/news/boeing-787-makes ... index.html

[Coligny]

Ok, time to reset the "day without incident" counter to 0 again:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/qatar-gro ... 08765.html

[omae mona]

I honestly cannot fathom what damage to the reputation of a company there is in (being negligently falsely represented as) having employees with ridiculous names, and it opens a number of cans of worms: do people with ridiculous names become unemployable? Can the employer force them to change their names? However, I am keeping my popcorn warm.

I doubt they cared about the ridiculous names. I think they were probably upset at the suggestion they had CHINESE pilots (ridiculous names or otherwise). That could be a marketing disaster for them.

Anyway, looks like they are dropping their suit. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/a ... ans-587631

The South Korean air carrier said that KTVU-TV has already apologized for using fake names for four pilots on a plane that crashed in San Francisco on July 6. It will no longer sue, as it had said it would do.
Asiana says it wants to focus on supporting passengers and families.

Nice of them to think of that.

Also, while still blaming an NTSB intern for making up the names and spreading them to the press, the TV station has also sacked those responsible. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-f ... ana-593274

In an on-air apology the same day, KTVU anchor Frank Somerville explained that "we never read the names out loud, phonetically sounding them out." The station, he said, spoke with someone at the National Transportation Safety Board who confirmed the names. The agency later revealed that an NTSB intern had confirmed the fake pilot names (the intern was subsequently fired also).

[Russell]

ANA finds problem in wiring of Boeing 787

All Nippon Airways Co. delayed a Wednesday flight from Tokyo’s Haneda airport to Frankfurt for about 1 hour and 40 minutes due to a problem in the wiring of a fire extinguisher for an engine on one of its Boeing 787 Dreamliner twin-jets.

ANA found similar wiring problems in two other aircraft after checking all 20 of its Boeing 787s, while Japan Airlines Co. returned a Helsinki-bound Dreamliner to Narita for a check after receiving notification of the problem.

The problems were found in the control system of the fire extinguishers near the front cargo bay. If a fire were to occur in one of the jetliner’s two engines, extinguishers may erroneously target the other engine, ANA said.

More

Imagine that: one of your engines shuts down because of a fire, and the other shuts down because of the resulting fire extinguishing...

[yanpa]

ANA finds problem in wiring of Boeing 787

All Nippon Airways Co. delayed a Wednesday flight from Tokyo’s Haneda airport to Frankfurt for about 1 hour and 40 minutes due to a problem in the wiring of a fire extinguisher for an engine on one of its Boeing 787 Dreamliner twin-jets.

ANA found similar wiring problems in two other aircraft after checking all 20 of its Boeing 787s, while Japan Airlines Co. returned a Helsinki-bound Dreamliner to Narita for a check after receiving notification of the problem.

The problems were found in the control system of the fire extinguishers near the front cargo bay. If a fire were to occur in one of the jetliner’s two engines, extinguishers may erroneously target the other engine, ANA said.

More

Imagine that: one of your engines shuts down because of a fire, and the other shuts down because of the resulting fire extinguishing...

That would lead to a situation similar to this.

[Coligny]

No, this time I'm sure we can blame Obomba...

Funny to see big toys having the kind of problems you have once in your life with small toys... then swear to never crash again because of a l/r or u/d invertion of anything...

[Coligny]

And again... 787 (maybe) on fire... but foamed up like the real deal...

That thing is a Ford Pinto with wings...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23294760

ok, more like the Yugo of the sky according to some customers...

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/airl ... ml/?ref=YF

[kurogane]

From that above linked article:

For the most part, industry experts have termed these events as typical “teething problems” of the new passenger plane. “This should be no surprise whatsoever,” Andrew Thomas, author of Soft Landing: Airline Industry Strategy, Service, and Safety, told the Christian Science Monitor after January’s battery fires. “Every new complex collection of systems – and the Dreamliner is certainly that – will experience unknowns.”

Aside fromk the fact that industry experts seem to be little more than shills hired to protect share value, is there any reliable evidence on just what sort of unknowns we are facing here?

Are they known unknowns, unknown unknowns, or the sort of unknowns about which we may never know????

[Mike Oxlong]

Blowback's a bitch...

In a First, Japan Airlines Orders Airbus Jets

[Tsuru]

*head explodes*

[Coligny]

*head explodes*

Keep some for the day they start buying Tupolev 204 and Sukhoi SJ 100...

or if they wise up and ask Mitsubishi to do something in that market...

[Tsuru]

It will be a cold day in hell before any real airlines will trust the Russians to deliver an on-spec, in-budget airliner with proper global support. Even with the help of the French, the Italians and the Americans they couldn't do it. Same goes for the Chinese.

The Mitsubishi MRJ is a bit of an unknown... The first jet that uses the PW1000G GTF has just started its flight testing program (Bombardier CS100) and I guess they will be able to use the Toyota dealer network to provide parts and support and things like that

And guess what now.... Best Korea is ordering Airbuses too!

[Coligny]

Luckily for them R00ssianz, there's plenty of not as real companies that still need planes and who wouldn't buy OEM spare parts for maintenance anyway...

[Mike Oxlong]

Airbus’s CEO Breaches Japan Fortress With Sake and Ski Lifts

Three decades after he began his business career selling aluminum in Japan, Airbus (EAD) Chief Executive Officer Fabrice Bregier tapped his experience of the country to land a $9.5 billion deal for a plane made of plastic.

Bregier logged 50,000 miles on four trips to Tokyo in his first year at the helm of the European planemaker, working to penetrate a market that’s been the preserve of Boeing Co. (BA) since World War II. His reward came yesterday when Japan Airlines Co. (9201) placed its first Airbus order for 31 long-range A350 jets.

The CEO had already lobbied incoming Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe when the balance began to tilt in Airbus’s favor with the grounding of Boeing’s rival 787 on Jan. 16 after two battery fires. Bregier stepped up his campaign in an encounter with JAL Chairman Kazuo Inamori at the World Economic Forum in Davos days later. With Boeing’s dominance broken, the Frenchman can hope to also convince ANA Holdings Inc. (9202), the 787’s first customer, to join JAL in switching camps.

“This goes beyond an order for 31 A350s,” Bregier said in an interview from Tokyo. “It’s a major event. Japan is a country where personal relations are essential. I’ve spent more time there than in any other market.”

Building Pressure

JAL is buying 18 A350-900 aircraft and 13 larger A350-1000s, plus options for 25 more planes. The A350, which flew for the first time this year, is Airbus’s response to Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner, which is also made of composite plastic material that’s lighter than traditional aluminum. The largest A350 is aimed at the popular Boeing 777.

Success with JAL may up the pressure on ANA to cease its reliance on Boeing for long-range jets, the aircraft type that’s in high demand in densely populated Japan. The A350 order takes the company’s share of the Japanese market to 20 percent from 13 percent, Bregier said yesterday, adding he’s confident he can build on the success for more deals in Japan...

[Tsuru]

Japan has never really been a Boeing-only playground anyway, more of a majority-Boeing/Douglas country. (Just like my own... grumble grumble)

JAS used to love the Airbus (and McDoDo) product, having bought over 60 A300s over the years, and the ones that were still with JAS in 2005 were incorporated into JAL during the merger and were retired only a few years ago.