Maori guest lecturer banned from Hokkaido onsen for...

[Taro Toporific]

...Banned from Hokkaido onsen for evil tattoos

Aotearoa Ainu Mosir Exchange Program アオテアロア・アイヌモシリ交流プログラム実行委員会.jpg

Maori woman refused entry to bath due to traditional tattoos
Mainichi | 2013sep12
...The Maori language lecturer, 60, has the tattoos, called ta moko, worn traditionally by some indigenous New Zealanders, on her lips and chin. She was in Hokkaido for a conference on indigenous languages in the town of Biratori in the northernmost prefecture...
...When a member of the group claimed the decision was discriminatory, the staff replied that the facility prohibits entry to anyone with tattoos in order to put customers at ease.
"Even if it is traditional culture, a typical person cannot judge the context behind the tattoos," the facility official told reporters...more...

[Coligny]

"Even if it is traditional culture, a typical person cannot judge the context behind the tattoos," the facility official told reporters...more...

Translation:

We are a country full of imbeciles and we can't risk losing customers by asking them to smarten up.

Leveling by the bottom...

Soon at every japanese airport, a new sign for a new rule:

"You must be this dumb to enter: xx"
With the maximum two digits IQ number of the day blinking in red...

[Russell]

Busy times for Debito...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Ah, TIJ....


On a related note, I didn't know they had the dole in Hokkaido...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Ah, TIJ....


On a related note, I didn't know they had the dole in Hokkaido...

Please. If there's an expert on the dole in Japan, it's you.

[Yokohammer]

Here we go again ... the great double standard.

Allowances must be made for Japanese culture everywhere and in all things, and yet other cultures ... wait, you mean there are other cultures?

So yeah, if the onsen staff don't have a clue about Maori culture (which is a fair assumption) then technically they're just following the rules, which is probably where this case is going to end up. Done and settled.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Here we go again ... the great double standard.

Allowances must be made for Japanese culture everywhere and in all things, and yet other cultures ... wait, you mean there are other cultures?

So yeah, if the onsen staff don't have a clue about Maori culture (which is a fair assumption) then technically they're just following the rules, which is probably where this case is going to end up. Done and settled.

Should they allow foreigners with tattoos but not Japanese?

[Yokohammer]

Here we go again ... the great double standard.

Allowances must be made for Japanese culture everywhere and in all things, and yet other cultures ... wait, you mean there are other cultures?

So yeah, if the onsen staff don't have a clue about Maori culture (which is a fair assumption) then technically they're just following the rules, which is probably where this case is going to end up. Done and settled.

Should they allow foreigners with tattoos but not Japanese?

And that was sort of my point. If they have a rule they're going to stick to it, and technically there's nothing wrong with that. Expecting the staff at an onsen to be enlightened about cultural details from around the world is unrealistic.

However ... and here's where the double standard thing comes in ... Japan gets very offended when Japanese culture is rejected or deemed inappropriate elsewhere in the world. Not unique: America does the same thing with its "everyone else in the world should live the way we do" thinking. In fact, I was going to add a sarcastic comment like "If only Japan was a true democracy, like we have in the west" to my post above, but I figured that'd confuse things. Looks like I confused things enough without it.

So to clarify:

* I do not blame the onsen staff for banning tattoos if that's the rule.
* However, there is a larger overarching cultural double standard there that is worth thinking about.
* America (or insert your country) does it too, but that doesn't make it right.

[matsuki]

Isn't it a pretty outdated concept for Yaks to get tattoos anyway? I thought the current generation got rid of the idea of being so easily identified? (the only Yak I personally know has a shitty angry buddha tat on his back that he got out of some lame manga)

Anyhow, I agree with Yoko here...if the society here is ok with banning tattoos in so many places, not much you can do about it but point out Japan is not culturally sensitive. (and the onsen staff have never heard of google)

[Taro Toporific]

I was wondering, are native Hokkaidoans, Ainu, banned too?

m0aR!~

[Yokohammer]

I was wondering, are native Hokkaidoans, Ainu, banned too?

That thought crossed my mind as well. I'm guessing it'd be the same.

I like the fact that this is receiving some media attention.
It'll get (some) people thinking.

[wagyl]

Seeing as Biratori is a major centre for "non-tourist" Ainu culture, I am sure that if the issue had come up before, it would have come up before.

It is an interesting town, well worth a stop for those who want to see multiculturalism, Japanese style. And not a show village in any way.

[matsuki]

I was wondering, are native Hokkaidoans, Ainu, banned too?

That thought crossed my mind as well. I'm guessing it'd be the same.

I like the fact that this is receiving some media attention.
It'll get (some) people thinking.

I forgot about that...maybe this was intentional to bring attention to the issue?? As far as the Ainu are concerned, they were invaded and this would just be another aspect of suppression of their culture. (which sounds exactly like the type of issues they'd be addressing at the event)

***Wonder how many incidents there will be in and around Tokyo, come olympic time...

[legion]

I think the rule is starting to drift away from being a way of keeping the yaks out without saying they are keeping the yaks out (or the yaks sue for discrimination). Tats are sign of a chinpira wannabe.

I think it is just becoming a rule to keep people with tramp stamps out. Tat=low life, don't want you in our bath.

Whether or not that is a fair judgement to make of inked individuals I really couldn't care less.

[IparryU]

I was wondering, are native Hokkaidoans, Ainu, banned too?

That thought crossed my mind as well. I'm guessing it'd be the same.

I like the fact that this is receiving some media attention.
It'll get (some) people thinking.

I forgot about that...maybe this was intentional to bring attention to the issue?? As far as the Ainu are concerned, they were invaded and this would just be another aspect of suppression of their culture. (which sounds exactly like the type of issues they'd be addressing at the event)

***Wonder how many incidents there will be in and around Tokyo, come olympic time...

ohhh you bet your bottom dollar that there will be ass loads of issues. fights, drunks, girls crying wolf, the whole 9. not to mention, some aggressive foreigner that tells the onsen staff to GFYS while they walk in with a group of FGs...

[matsuki]

I think the rule is starting to drift away from being a way of keeping the yaks out without saying they are keeping the yaks out (or the yaks sue for discrimination). Tats are sign of a chinpira wannabe.

I think it is just becoming a rule to keep people with tramp stamps out. Tat=low life, don't want you in our bath.

Whether or not that is a fair judgement to make of inked individuals I really couldn't care less.

While I can dig that, it's kinda messed up that these traditional tats get grouped in with them. Either way, at some point keeping tats out will hurt business so much that most places will drop the rule. Population decreasing and tats increasing at all....these places are still businesses.

[Yokohammer]

This story just got a surprisingly big spot on the NHK news. Must have been around 5 minutes.

In short, the NHK message was: "we must be more sensitive to different cultures, especially since the upcoming olympics means that many foreigners will be visiting Japan."

Very nice. The fact that it seems like "tatemae" for the olympics means very little. If this kind of attitude actually takes root over the next 7 years, things could actually change a bit.

So that's one small victory for Maori culture and the olympics.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it looks like public baths and onsen nationwide might be planning to reconsider the tattoo rule.

[GomiGirl]

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it looks like public baths and onsen nationwide might be going to reconsider the tattoo rule.

That is HUGE news. I know so many people with fairly arty ink who get refused from onsens and public pools and gyms all the time.

[Yokohammer]

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it looks like public baths and onsen nationwide might be going to reconsider the tattoo rule.

That is HUGE news. I know so many people with fairly arty ink who get refused from onsens and public pools and gyms all the time.

Yes. They showed a series of clips of various olympic athletes with tattoos too. The point being that other cultures don't have the same problem with tattoos that Japan has.

[yanpa]

The sight of young-ish people of Yamato lineage with "trendy" tattoos is becoming increasingly un-rare too.

Oddly enough in the last couple of weeks I've seen two different individuals sporting visible tattoos consisting of what appears to be Arabic script (I wonder if there's an Arabic equivalent of hanzismatter.blogspot.com... would be mighty amusing if they read something like "Fun God Frog Sock").

[legion]

The sight of young-ish people of Yamato lineage with "trendy" tattoos is becoming increasingly un-rare too.

Oddly enough in the last couple of weeks I've seen two different individuals sporting visible tattoos consisting of what appears to be Arabic script (I wonder if there's an Arabic equivalent of hanzismatter.blogspot.com... would be mighty amusing if they read something like "Fun God Frog Sock").

probably read, "I went to Iran for my holiday and all I got was this lousy tattoo"

[sublight]

Busy times for Debito...

Nah, ain't a white dude.

The news clip about the athletes was at least hinting at the fact that in about seven years there's going to be a huge number of people with tattoos walking around here, including many of the competitors, and these places are going to make the country look like a bunch of morons (yeah, I know, but the rest of the world hasn't caught on to that yet) if they keep this up.

[Russell]

While I can dig that, it's kinda messed up that these traditional tats get grouped in with them.

Aren't Yak tats traditional?

This whole problem started when Yaks were singled out by some external visual marker to deny them entrance into establishments where they could make trouble.

Nowadays, with laws against membership of organized crime groups, it should be much easier to draw a line, something like:

"No members of organized crime groups allowed in"

Not that I am in favor of tats. They are disgusting.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

"No members of organized crime groups allowed in"

Except, they're often not members when they're members and members when they're not members. And the police will respect that.

I get the feeling Japan may not bend on this one, which would be so entirely out of character I suspect they'll tell people to suck it up for the Olympics and then return to abnormal when everyone's stopped looking. Kinda like the way they ship the homeless out of central Tokyo when anything big is on. (Still not a patch on Imela's Pink Wall in Manila, though...)

[matsuki]

This story just got a surprisingly big spot on the NHK news. Must have been around 5 minutes.

In short, the NHK message was: "we must be more sensitive to different cultures, especially since the upcoming olympics means that many foreigners will be visiting Japan."

Very nice. The fact that it seems like "tatemae" for the olympics means very little. If this kind of attitude actually takes root over the next 7 years, things could actually change a bit.

So that's one small victory for Maori culture and the olympics.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and it looks like public baths and onsen nationwide might be planning to reconsider the tattoo rule.

Did hell freeze over or what's up? NHK has been on a roll with decent content lately.

[wagyl]

Did hell freeze over or what's up? NHK has been on a roll with decent content lately.

Apparently Yanpa started making contributions to the slushfund. I still haven't heard the story of how that came about.

[yanpa]

Did hell freeze over or what's up? NHK has been on a roll with decent content lately.

Apparently Yanpa started making contributions to the slushfund. I still haven't heard the story of how that came about.

Yes, I made it a condition that they improve their output.

I still haven't heard the story of how that came about.

here you go.

[Russell]

NHK probably read our NHK thread and concluded that it's better to stop broadcasting Youtube videos.

After all, we are all employed by NHK, innit?

[***]

This sounds like a case for - DEBITO!

Anyone here know when he's - or if - he's coming back to Japan?

[yanpa]

NHK probably read our NHK thread and concluded that it's better to stop broadcasting Youtube videos.

After all, we are all employed by NHK, innit?

Some of us are technically freelancers.

Anyway, next Gaijin Illuminati in the NHK Studio Park Club Souterraine, special guest Mr. Kaigai Tsuiho of the Immigration Department who will be seeking our advice on what kind of foreigners they should be letting into the country from now on. The event will be supported by our sponsor, GAS KB.