Permanent Residency definition

[wangta]

for tax purposes.

I'm thinking ahead here although tax time is some way off - I remember it is in March from my previous time in Japan, am I correct? I'm sure that Japan's tax laws for gaijin hold that we are permanent residents for tax purposes if we've been here 5 years out of the last 10 years.

Could somebody verify this? I am in Japan 2nd time around and I'm not looking forward to my visit to the ward office or tax office or both with my control freak boss. Generally the Japanese (not talking about Japanese friends here) will throw gaijin under the bus to maintain good relations and tatemae with other Japanese irrespective of whether it's fair to the gaijin or not.

I am sure my boss will be more than eager to ensure the tax people know just about everything they can about everything to do with me and my life, even things that don't have to be given as information, and keen to assist them in extracting as much tax as they can from the gaijin hired help.

I don't think my tax experience should be that difficult even if I am considered a permanent residence for tax payers depending on the Japanese definition. However, I have noticed a lot of over-reach these days in Japan including being badgered for my passport by a net cafe when I have a resident card and that should be enough for ID. Japanese jobsworths - not important people - want to put conditions they really have no right to on gaijin doing usual, simple things. I don't need my boss running with the definition of permanent residency status taxpayer and interfering in my life.

Does the 5 yrs out of the last 10 yrs residency rule for being treated as a permanent resident for tax purposes kick in from this year when I returned or will they count the last 10 years from March 2014 when I go to get my taxes done?

I am also wondering about how they can determine dates - I lost my old, finished passport some time after I left Japan but when I got back home I photocopied the page that showed my departure stamp. It seems to me that the days of the discreet J authorities not pressing gaijin too hard and asking too many questions has gone and they will want proof I have not lived for their definition of 5 yrs out of the last 10 in Japan.

[omae mona]

It is indeed any total of 5 years (even non-consecutive days) in the last 10 year period. That disqualifies you from being treated as a non-resident (hikyojuusha / 非居住者）

Several nasty legal pages spell out that definition, e.g.this one

(3)　日本の国籍を有していない居住者で、過去10年以内において国内に住所又は居所を有していた期間の合計が5年を超える場合　　5年以内の日までの間は非永住者、その翌日以後は非永住者以外の居住者

The problem is to get the definition of which 10 year period they are talking about for your kakutei shinkoku (national tax return), it seems to refer to another set of laws which, as a non-lawyer, I have no idea how to look up.

Tax is based on calendar years, though, so I am pretty sure that it's going to be the period from January 1, 2004 - December 31, 2013. I doubt the period from Jan 1, 2014 to filing date (March 15 2014?) has any effect. Hope somebody else here can give a more definite answer, though.

[pjifwepijfsd]

You'll need to ask this question to a zeirishi or tax accountant to get legitimate advice that you can rely on.
My tax advisor told me 5 out of the last 10 years, so that seems right. It seems possible that there are records of your periods of stay in Japan kept by immigration as well, but it may be that you just have to tell them either way, and if you get audited they may want documents to double-check that.
I think the period of measurement is a rolling period based on tax advice I received. My tax advisor suggested I could step up my basis in Japan for an overseas retirement investment by selling the investment just before I hit the 5 / 10 threshhold. However, my tax advisor might be wrong or there might be other things about your situation that are different from mine.
So, again, need to talk with your own tax advisor based on your situation.

I am pretty surprised your boss will accompany you to the ward office or tax office - why would they do that? The normal course as I understand it is to deduct taxes from your salary through payroll and leave you on your own for ward office and any actual tax filings you have to make, unless you get expat benefits like people to do your visa paperwork and taxes for you.

[wangta]

Thanks for those replies so far, both of you. Very helpful.

I think you're correct Omae Mona re the time period. It makes sense for them to just keep it from calendar year to calendar year instead of messing around with the actual months you started, left, came back etc. I don't see that as any special way to make life uncomfortable for gaijin - just a straightforward, uncomplicated way to calculate years of Japanese residency.

Pjif etc - I have a control freak boss. They are into the whole 'you are owned because I sponsor your visa' crap that I thought wasn't happening in Japan. In the past it was clear that although our employer sponsored us in Japan, it was not the same as owning our visa. I am not sure if they are overestimating their control or not but yep, I can't do much without them shoving their oar in.

I returned this year. My last experiences in Japan some time ago were those of working for 3 different employers and having some freedom but the impression I am getting now is that things have changed in Japan.

[omae mona]

Thanks for those replies so far, both of you. Very helpful.

I think you're correct Omae Mona re the time period. It makes sense for them to just keep it from calendar year to calendar year instead of messing around with the actual months you started, left, came back etc. I don't see that as any special way to make life uncomfortable for gaijin - just a straightforward, uncomplicated way to calculate years of Japanese residency.

Just to reiterate what pjifwepijfsd said, check with a pro. I think the actual days you entered and left *do* matter, though. I am just saying that the eligible 10 year period is probably the tax calendar year you're filing for, plus the 9 previous years. Within that 10 year period, you need to count exactly how many of those days you were in Japan.

[gaijinpunch]

From what I've understood from my zeirishi, even if you don't have a PR visa, you maybe taxable as a permanent resident. They generally ask you to check the box if you plan to live in Japan forever. I have never filed it that way, as I don't plan on retiring in Japan, and never have... even though I have PR.

[pjifwepijfsd]

Pjif etc - I have a control freak boss. They are into the whole 'you are owned because I sponsor your visa' crap that I thought wasn't happening in Japan. In the past it was clear that although our employer sponsored us in Japan, it was not the same as owning our visa. I am not sure if they are overestimating their control or not but yep, I can't do much without them shoving their oar in.

Well, they are overestimating their control if they think they own your visa. You are free to change jobs (provided it is within your status of residence or you file for a change of status) without your employer's permission, as far as I can tell.
The new law does require you, though, to update the immigration bureau on your change of job if you have a work visa, within a relatively short deadline. It's worth taking a quick look at recent changes to the immigration act, such as summarized here:
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_1/en/
You should make sure you are getting pension and health coverage correctly, too, as you often hear about people with fly-by-night employers who just don't bother signing people up to save a buck.

[IparryU]

Pjif etc - I have a control freak boss. They are into the whole 'you are owned because I sponsor your visa' crap that I thought wasn't happening in Japan. In the past it was clear that although our employer sponsored us in Japan, it was not the same as owning our visa. I am not sure if they are overestimating their control or not but yep, I can't do much without them shoving their oar in.

Well, they are overestimating their control if they think they own your visa. You are free to change jobs (provided it is within your status of residence or you file for a change of status) without your employer's permission, as far as I can tell.
The new law does require you, though, to update the immigration bureau on your change of job if you have a work visa, within a relatively short deadline. It's worth taking a quick look at recent changes to the immigration act, such as summarized here:
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_1/en/
You should make sure you are getting pension and health coverage correctly, too, as you often hear about people with fly-by-night employers who just don't bother signing people up to save a buck.

ya make sure that you let la migra know your change of job or martial status... just got popped for that and still awaiting the proceeds.

not fun to be in, but relatively easy to handle compared to the US migra.

[Wibble]

I am also wondering about how they can determine dates - I lost my old, finished passport some time after I left Japan but when I got back home in March 2006 I photocopied the page that showed my departure stamp. It seems to me that the days of the discreet J authorities not pressing gaijin too hard and asking too many questions has gone and they will want proof I have not lived for their definition of 5 yrs out of the last 10 in Japan.

You can get a copy of your immigration record for a small admin fee. It should have all your entries/exits in it.

Pjif etc - I have a control freak boss. They are into the whole 'you are owned because I sponsor your visa' crap that I thought wasn't happening in Japan. In the past it was clear that although our employer sponsored us in Japan, it was not the same as owning our visa. I am not sure if they are overestimating their control or not but yep, I can't do much without them shoving their oar in.

Nope, they still don't "own" your visa. They (and you) are required to tell Immi if you leave your job, but your visa won't be revoked (unless you're unemployed for an excessive period) and you can get another job of the same type without needing permission of your previous work.

[pjifwepijfsd]

ya make sure that you let la migra know your change of job or martial status... just got popped for that and still awaiting the proceeds.

not fun to be in, but relatively easy to handle compared to the US migra.

I'm interested to know how that goes. In the US presumably you would be awaiting execution by electric chair. I've heard varying stories from people under the old law and would like to know how it is under the new law with its harsher (nominally) penalties and deadlines and requirements for notification. Of course I'd like to think "it could never happen to me," but realistically when you go through changes like that I could see getting really overwhelmed and not thinking about it in time. Fucked up law-making in that way, really: "I want a divorce." "Honey, before we continue this conversation, I have to run to the immigration bureau, but I'll be right back to get my half of the stuff, no first dibs without me OK?" Nicer than other systems around the world, but from a humanitarian perspective the old system was better on this front I think.

[wangta]

Thought I'd belatedly update what happened to me during tax time this year when I was still in Japan.

Originally I was worried about the whole Permanent Residency because of how many years I had lived in Japan over a 10 yr period - I am not a Permanent Resident in the real sense with a legal status and was only concerned with my tax re the fact that if you are in Japan for a combined 5 yrs over the last 10 yr period, then you are considered a Permanent Resident for tax purposes.

As it turned out there were no problems. By the tax office's definition I had not lived 5 total years in Japan during the last 10 yr period although they knew about my previous residence some years back. They were much easier than I had thought they would be - possibly the fact that I speak desu/masu form Japanese and don't come across as an overly opinionated gaijin helped me. I went by myself to see them although my cunt of a boss had submitted my info in December last year.

And in fact the tax officer who assisted me pointed out that my employer should have paid the work insurance that she instead deducted from my salary each month. It wasn't much he said but technically my employer should have paid that and anyway, it could be used as a tax deduction along with my kokumin kenko hoken. Nice bloke!

He also said that if I had broken that 5 yr residence over a 10 yr period in Japan barrier, I would have been expected to fill out a form listing the total sum of income I had from bank interest, interest from other financial sources, income from any property I owned, overseas etc. He said they didn't want account numbers or too much info - just the total amount of income I had received from back home or anywwhere else outside Japan.

This issue has been discussed a lot on other forums with some misinformation. See for example the interesting 'Be wary of your investments - the tax man is watching' thread from the old gajinpot forums. It is archived on the gaijin not website forums and is under the forum heading 'Banking and investments' or whatever the wording is.

The tax officer said to me that nowadays tax office staff in Japan are being trained to question more gaijin who claims to have no income, not even interest from bank accounts, back home. While they are mostly after those who have bee n in Japan for a while, esp permanent residents of legal visa status, they are becoming more interested in nailing gaijin who lie including those who are going on for three years or more in Japan without being permanent residents in visa status.

It all certainly gives food for thought esp to those like me who want to return to work in Japan - just not for cunts of oddball, bitchass employers and not with rude, unhappy, fuckity fuck gaijin co-workers.