<quack> J-Medicine </quack>

[Taro Toporific]

[Nagged]

My own experience with medicine here is not good.

Some know what they are doing, some do not, some seem to believe in faith healing, some want to practise their English and some seem far more interested in money than curing their patients.

My advice is go to a local hospital for minor things, if you are going to have major surgery and sufficient doubt exists over the quality of medical care you will receive, go home and get treated there.

Apologies to the doctors who do know what they are on about.

[AssKissinger]

I'll take the Japanese health care system over America's any day. At least I can go the doctor here. 'Go home for medical treatment.'

[Nagged]

I'll take the Japanese health care system over America's any day. At least I can go the doctor here. 'Go home for medical treatment.'

I cannot comment having never been to America. If it's that bad, I can only say that you have my sympathy.

I saw this on blogd.com and must say that I have had similar experiences.

http://www.blogd.com/archives/000161.html

[omae mona]

I saw this on blogd.com and must say that I have had similar experiences.

http://www.blogd.com/archives/000161.html

[quote]The Four-Visit Teeth Cleaning
One of the more annoying (but far less painful) idiosyncrasies of dental work in Japan is the multiple-visit syndrome. This is also true for doctors sometimes, but dentists are renowned for it. Most patients who come in will have the Kokumin Hoken (National Health Insurance), which has a somewhat convoluted payment system. One way for medical practitioners to milk the insurance system is to require patients to make multiple visits]

I just scheduled visit #5, and I was afraid to ask how many more visits. On the other hand, the guy is about a 3 minute walk from my door, and each time, they get me in and out of the office within 20 minutes. For a routine cleaning, they do exactly the same thing as my dentists back home have always done, except for the repeat visits. So I'm not complaining yet. Watch me write back when my teeth fall out next week, though..

[japslapper]

There is no perfect medical system anywhere However if you are rich - and can therefore afford choice - also if you are educated in medical matters yourself (you know when they are pulling the wool over your eyes), you have a better chance of surviving the system -


Japans system has good points and bad points.

2 things it needs to allow, which would help endlessly

1) Copy the British/Australian Medical Council approach of a patient friendly enquirey and appeals system so that dodgy doctors are bought to justice in an overt and fair manner - though this ofcourse is gonna require a cultural shift to allow for debate, and discussion, in the light of evidence as opposed to group feeling

2) Allow graduates of foreign medical schools to work in Japan. Both the UK and the USA will with the exception of an exam or two allow foreign qualified doctors to work - it brings diversity and fresh ideas. Japanese medical schools/hospitals are not diverse.

[Taro Toporific]

... if you are rich - and can therefore afford choice - also if you are educated in medical matters yourself (you know when they are pulling the wool over your eyes), you have a better chance of surviving the system ...

Ahhh Japslapper, you bet to the punch on that one.
An FG can survive the system quite well with a little knowledge. If you can get J-doctors into the "professional courtesy" mode your treatment can be good. That is, you need to get them to treat you as a peer, which means you need to:
--study about what ails you
--keep records of your treatment
--get the chemical names of the scripts given to you (never accept those damn unlabeled envelopes most J-doctors give out)
--get a second and third options
--realize doctors can't know everything and double-check everything

The above are pertenent to all medicine, Japanese and otherwise.

[Taro Toporific]

... if you are rich - and can therefore afford choice - also if you are educated in medical matters yourself (you know when they are pulling the wool over your eyes), you have a better chance of surviving the system ...

Ahhh Japslapper, you beat me to the punch on that one.
An FG can survive the system quite well with a little knowledge. If you can get J-doctors into the "professional courtesy" mode, your treatment can be good. That is, you need to get them to treat you as a peer, which means you need to:
--study about what ails you
--keep records of your treatment
--get the chemical names of the scripts given to you (never accept those damn unlabeled envelopes most J-doctors give out)
--get second and third options
--realize doctors can't know everything and double-check everything

The above are pertenent to all medicine, Japanese and otherwise.

[canman]

Educating yourself is soooo important, if it is possible.
I would like to relate to you two different experiences I had involving ingrown toenails and my different experiences. A long time ago, when I was young and naive(now I'm just naive), I had an ingrown nail on my foot, which was really starting to bother me. I asked one of my students( a doctor of course) where should I go to have it taken care of. I had heard that in Canada, most procedures would be done in a GP's office, in and out in about 20 minutes. He was an orthopedic surgeon, and offered to do it himself, at the public hospital. I went on the decided day, and was expecting a quick in and out procedure. At first visit my blood pressure was taken, all of my medical history was charted, and finally I was tested to see if I had an allergy to the anesthetic. Then I was taken into a pre-op type room, given a gown and told to strip. At this point I started to get a little nervous, after all this was an ingrown nail. After putting on the lovely no back gown, I was wheeled into an operating room, at which point I saw my student, and two of his colleagues, also students at our shcool. There were also three nurses in the room. I was led to the table and told to lie down. At this point my arms were tied down and a metal bar was placed over my forehead to prevent me from lifting my head. I was then given an IV drip, and told to relax. A nurse came along to paint my leg orange, well she was disinfecting it. But the stupid woman, wanted to paint the under side of my leg and grabbed my big toe, which of course had the ingrown nail. I let out a screem, which brought my student rushing over, and he literally kicked her out of the room. Finally they began, and within 5 minutes they were done. I was untied and taken to a recovery room, where I had to stay for two hours. I then had my toe wrapped in so much gauze and tape, my foot must have weighed an extra two pounds. I then had to promise to come back every morning to have the dressing changed.
Fast forward to this June, the other big toe has an ingrown nail. I decided to go to a small clinic near my home. I went into the doctors office, he looks at my toe and says yes lets cut it out. He tell me to get up on the table, puts my foot on this swivel stool, quickly injects me with something, doesn't wait 30 seconds and starts to cut. I'm guessing whatever he injected was suppossed to be anesthetic, but it sure didn't work. I felt everything he did. Of course I'm trying to keep my foot still, but on the swivel chair it keeps moving. He finished up and tells me to slap a bandage on it when I get home. Now how is that for the utter extreme.

[AssKissinger]

Holy shit Canman, I thought they were gonna amputate your leg Maybe I'm lucky but I've had really good experiences with J-Doctors (knock on wood). I do think the multiple visit thing is a pain and I wonder if they heard of something called reservations. For as busy as the JPN are they sure take it easy when it comes to waiting around a doctor's office all day. And this is true for a lot places in Japan but I hate when they blast some dumb ass TV show.

[japslapper]

I have looked on the net for foreign doctors working in Japan - there are not many. Worrying

One bit of advice FGs if your sick, and you cant make the 12 flight back to the US/UK/AUS etc - I recomend Hong -Kong or Singapore. They speak English and their doctors are world class. For minor things buy any medicines over the net. There must be FGs around who are ex medics who can help?

I never go near J- hospitals, they have illogical practices and in medicine illogical = dangerous . Canmans experience with J-docs and a simple ingrown toenail is a joke - unbelievable. Seems to me they go the longest road possible - obvioulsy to milk the insurance people, and for not clinical effect. Drips for everything

Modern medicine should be based on evidence. If medical prcatice is not scientific, and evidence based then it is very dangerous. Japanese medicine is based on bullshit. ......but as I have said before - the perfect healthcare system is where? The UKs is neck deep in problems as is the USAs- which as the worlds best funded and theoretically shouldn`t be.....



http://www.health-care-reform.net/causedeath.htm

In spite of the rising health care costs that provide the illusion of improving health care, the American people do not enjoy good health, compared with their counterparts in the industrialized nations. Among thirteen countries including Japan, Sweden, France and Canada, the U.S. was ranked 12th, based on the measurement of 16 health indicators such as life expectancy, low-birth-weight averages and infant mortality. In another comparison reported by the World Health Organization that used a different set of health indicators, the U.S. also fared poorly with a ranking of 15 among 25 industrialized nations.

My own personal take on this is that it is partly culture, partly education. There also seems somewhere to be someone massaging statistics, for national pride, perhaps. In the statistics France ranks higher than the UK, and Japan higher than the US but in my experience I wouldnt agree. How are things compared? Whats really important? Its a global problem, there needs to be honest evaluation of things, transnationally for the good of people.

Another issue

the majority of the student's medical studies take the familiar form: memorize, pass-the-test, and forget. The process is so inefficient that most of what is learned - even relevant information - is forgotten by the time it is over.

This feature is common all over the world (and fits Japans system well I should say ). There are now a few new medical courses in various countries which look to recuriting and training more rounded/lateral thinking individuals but they are a minority.

[American Oyaji]

This survey probably didn't follow the average medical experience. It only sees what is the highest medicine available in the country.

But doesn't look at the small clinics.

I haven't had much bad experience except one.

I have allergies, and in Japan they shove these cotton swabs soaked in iodine up your nose. These are flexible metal rods and they go QUITE far up the nose.

It's medieval and its uncomfortable, but DAMN it works.

[maraboutslim]

Both of my kids were born in Japan by c-section, which is a rather major medical proceedure when you think about it. The doctors were great, everything went perfectly, everyone is healthy as can be - no complaints from me.

The Japanese live longer than any other people on earth so overall, the "health" system must do its job. Most of the success comes from living right in the first place, of course. And choose your parents carefully. Worked for me. Haven't been to the doctor for anything other than motorcycle crash related shoulder rebuild (U.S. doctor did an amazing job) and surfing related back tweakage (Japanese sports doctor fixed me all up in half a dozen sessions for a total of about 2000 yen) since the early 80s.

Odaiji ni

-Slim

[Steve Bildermann]

I don't have any problems with the Japanese health care system however as I came from the UK health care joke system my base comparision is probably scaled too low. My friend waited two fucking years for a MRI scan under the National health. I can walk into my local hospital here and have a MRI done the same day.

Others do have problems though:

Rise in malpractice puts Japanese healthcare in crisis

TOKYO : The recent death of a 16-year-old schoolgirl is the latest incident to put the spotlight on an alarming trend in Japanese healthcare - a rise in medical malpractice.

The girl who had cancer, died after her doctor had administered the wrong dosage of drugs and had no prior experience in dealing with that particular form of cancer.

According to the health ministry, the last time a doctor had his license revoked was in 1971.

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/eastasia/view/55340/1/.html

[kamome]

One bit of advice FGs if your sick, and you cant make the 12 flight back to the US/UK/AUS etc - I recomend Hong -Kong or Singapore. They speak English and their doctors are world class.

I have also heard that you can get excellent medical treatment in Thailand, if you go to the fancier hospitals. They also speak English and have been trained in the West. You can even get same-day MRI's and all treatment is very cheap. This info came to me from a friend who works for the US Dept. of Defense and was stationed in North Thailand for a couple of years. He never had a problem and swears he'll go to Thailand for major procedures before he goes back to the US.

[japslapper]

I don't have any problems with the Japanese health care system however as I came from the UK health care joke system my base comparision is probably scaled too low. My friend waited two fucking years for a MRI scan under the National health. I can walk into my local hospital here and have a MRI done the same day.

The NHS aint that bad. With quality of health care there are lot of features to consider. The UKs NHS is without doubt, underfunded (the UK spends 7% of its wealth on health wheras the Japanese and US spent upwards of 17%) - but what the NHS gives you for the money put-in is amazing. The extreme incompetance that is a major feature of Japans system is not there, and in the UK if you are really, really ill - you are treated, and treated well. You can get treated regardless of who you are - and that does not happen here or in the US. In the UK if you are really sick you will get treated first - those with non emergency things wait - which is fair, considering the financial situation.

My point is that for such a rich health care system, Japans is amazingly dodgy. And the point on Life expectancy - does that include quality? - look out for massaged stats. Japans adavantage is really down to diet and active life with low calories. Watch out for AIDS, and Big Macs.....

[Nagged]

According to the health ministry, the last time a doctor had his license revoked was in 1971.

In 1971? Well, that's a big relief. Help me with the math somebody - that's 32 years and not one doctor has had their license revoked? That just goes to show how impeccable doctors here really are. I take back my earlier criticism and substitute sarcasm and astonishment instead.

[den4]

J-dentists don't have preventive care for them dentists, so they wait until your teeth rot before actually think about cleaning...had that happen so many times there while I was there....

One dentist in Yokohama I went to did speak Engrish, but the bloody quack took over an hour just to get the top crown of my wisdom tooth out and after all that pulling and yanking with the pliers, or whatever the equivalent dentists use, I told him I had had enough...and managed to escape that hellish place without having to pay...he wanted me to come back later, but uh-uh...no way...

then I had the same wisdom tooth removed later in the US, and the fella got it yanked out in less than five minutes....

tellin' ya, the dentists in japan are a little behind in their skill level....now I know what them early American colonists felt like when they had their teeth pulled....

If you're still in da 'hama, Taro, best beware of engrish speaking dentists.... LOL

[canman]

I'm having a root canal done(yahoo), anyway this was my seventh visit, for god knows what they are doing. But have you noticed that in many Japanese dentists office most of the work is not done by the dentist himself, but one of the technicians or hygenists. I went in today, he looked in my mouth tapped on my tooth to see if the root was dead already, then turned me over to the technician, who did everything including put on a temporary crown. Now I know that he will be charging the health insurance system for all of the work, but I've never had that happen to me while I was in Canada. The dentist did the majority of the work the hygenist or technician did the cleanings and menial things.

[GuyJean]

Apologies if this was already posted..

Canada far outranks U.S. in healthcare report card
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090928/healthcare_report_090928/20090928/?hub=Health

... The annual report card ranks Canada 10th out of 16 developed countries, with a "B" grade.

The United States was the worst performer, placing 16th and earning a "D" grade. Japan was once again the top-ranking country. Switzerland, Italy, and Norway also earned "A" grades..

...What's more, health care is just one of several contributors to the health of Canadians; other factors independent of the formal health-care system also come into play, such as:

age of the population
tobacco use
alcohol consumption
physical activity
eating habits

The Conference Board ranked the 16 countries according to 11 criteria, including life expectancy, mortality due to cancer and other diseases, as well as infant mortality and self-reported health status...

Rank Country Grade

Japan A
Switzerland A
Italy A
Norway A
Sweden B
France B
Finland B
Germany B
Australia B
Canada B
Netherlands C
Austria C
Ireland C
United Kingdom D
Denmark D
United States D

Of course, diet probably is a huge factor in this particular study.. as well as Japan's 'unique' ability of not reporting things as they are; 'Suicide? Nahhh. That was an accidental loss of breathing due to rope play.. An accident.'

'Smoke? Nahh, I don't smoke. I sometimes coat my mouth with clean burning fire dust to enhance my unique japanese, umami tongue.'

GJ

[Greji]

Apologies if this was already posted..

Canada far outranks U.S. in healthcare report card
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20090928/healthcare_report_090928/20090928/?hub=Health
[I]Of course, diet probably is a huge factor in this particular study.. as well as Japan's 'unique' ability of not reporting things as they are]

GJ

Produced by the Obama White House in time for the next Senate vote..

[sublight]

Honestly, my experiences with Japanese clinics and hospitals has been fairly positive, overall. The only horror story I had was from one of the foreigner clinics (Tokyo Medical Clinic in front of Tokyo Tower) where they misdiagnosed a cancerous tumor for a year (I'm fine now). The doctor who did that is now at Azabu Clinic.

The father of one of my friends was an orthopedic surgeon who seemed to know his stuff. He was constantly complaining about how hard it was to get rid of incompetent doctors in Japan. One example he mentioned was that whenever it was proposed to allow patients to have the right to access their medical records, the doctor's association immediately shouted it down.

[wuchan]

Honestly, my experiences with Japanese clinics and hospitals has been fairly positive, overall. The only horror story I had was from one of the foreigner clinics (Tokyo Medical Clinic in front of Tokyo Tower) where they misdiagnosed a cancerous tumor for a year (I'm fine now). The doctor who did that is now at Azabu Clinic.

The father of one of my friends was an orthopedic surgeon who seemed to know his stuff. He was constantly complaining about how hard it was to get rid of incompetent doctors in Japan. One example he mentioned was that whenever it was proposed to allow patients to have the right to access their medical records, the doctor's association immediately shouted it down.

Pain management is a joke here. Went to a few places for an injury to a previously repaired part and was given tylenol by every "doctor" i saw. I have a huge bottle of tylenol at home, big fucking help. Ended up having to take a few weeks off because I could't walk. If I were home the doctors would have given me proper treatment and I would not have lost a single day of work. On top of the "deal with it" treatment, the J-docs held a fucking conference every time they saw my surgery scars.

[Osakadave]

Mixed bag here...
I've sen excellent J docs and awful ones. My regular asthma specialist is awesome. The quack who "treated" me for a throat infection 8 years ago was horrid. The 2nd doc I saw for that one was excellent. The 1st guy I saw for a knee injury after GW (who told me that an injury from a fall was gout) was bad. The next guy took care of it fine. I've found a good dentist - Canadian trained.

Just like anywhere, there are good and bad docs out there.

However, it does seem there's more protection here for the bad ones...

[American Oyaji]

A lot of the Japanese staff here at the BigH get their major medical repairs and procedures done stateside before they go back to Japan.

[GuyJean]

If you do some research (in Japanese), it's possible to find the good ones. Japan may not have malpractice lawsuits, but some of my Japanese friends use online forums/reports to check a doctors 'record' before choosing. I'll try to get some info on sites, but I think they might be specific to a certain practice.

My personal experiences have been great, but I had a friend mis-diagnosed for appendicitis; gave him laxatives which almost killed him and resulted in an emergency appendectomy.. But it was in Saitama.

GJ