Gov. Blinky Ishihara wants to buy the Senkaku Rocks

[Mike Oxlong]

Just build the replacement USMC heliport for Futenma there instead of Henoko and problem solved.

US gets their own rock to do with as they please, buffer for Japan/China, Japan gets protected fishing + oil & gas exploration.

[matsuki]

Maybe the new zone is only for Japan?

Not according to China's statements.

[Coligny]

Cold war it is...

lead_large.jpg

The U.S. Flew B-52s Through China's New 'Air Defense Zone'

Two American B-52 bombers on a training mission flew right through China's newly expanded air defense zone on Monday. (...)

Moar: http://www.thewire.com/global/2013/11/u ... ne/355552/

[matsuki]

Translation: China ain't got nuthin'

[CrankyBastard]

Translation: China ain't got nuthin'

And that's their reason for all this.
China's military desperately need a corridor into the Pacific.
Without it their naval buildup will be worthless.

[Coligny]

The repainted Varyag... A naval buildup... Bit quick here no ?

Edit:

Ok, fuck me... These clowns are sending the rusty hull down there...

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/world/story/1.2440703

Do they even have pilots and planes to put on it ?


Impressive fast how the level of suckage is raising... Have to check on my stock of noodles, popcrorm won't cut it this time...

[Russell]

Defying China, U.S. bombers and Japanese planes fly through new air zone

Two unarmed U.S. B-52 bombers on a training mission flew over disputed islands in the East China Sea without informing Beijing while Japan's main airlines also ignored Chinese authorities when their planes passed through a new airspace defense zone on Wednesday.

The defiance from Japan and its ally the United States raises the stakes in a territorial standoff between Beijing and Tokyo over the islands and challenges China to make the next move, experts said.

[...]

Following a request from the Japanese government, Japan Airlines and ANA Holdings said they stopped giving flight plans and other information to Chinese authorities on Wednesday. Neither airline had experienced any problems when passing through the zone, they added.

Japan's aviation industry association said it had concluded there was no threat to passenger safety by ignoring the Chinese demands, JAL said. Both JAL and ANA posted notices on their websites informing its passengers of their decision.

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As much as I support Japan in this, I think it is irresponsible to request that civilian airliners not respond to Chinese demands. There appear to be some crazies on the Chinese side, and it wouldn't surprise me if a Japanese civilian plane will be shot down some day "by mistake of China".

[Russell]

Just build the replacement USMC heliport for Futenma there instead of Henoko and problem solved.

US gets their own rock to do with as they please, buffer for Japan/China, Japan gets protected fishing + oil & gas exploration.

Actually, I think Japan should make the Senkakus a nuclear waste dumping site. They have enough of that stuff here, and no prefecture wants to store it...

[Coligny]

As much as I support Japan in this, I think it is irresponsible to request that civilian airliners not respond to Chinese demands.

Fuckin A... without fighter escort that's totally irresponsible to tell them to disobey...
with a fighter escort that would be irresponsible to go...

Best way to win is not to play... nao where did I heard dis' shit already ?

There appear to be some crazies on the Chinese side, and it wouldn't surprise me if a Japanese civilian plane will be shot down some day "by mistake of China".

Everytime an airliner has been purposefully shootdown it was the result of screwups in a already hot zone. Here, the max the chinese can do is sending a fighter CAP to either escort the bird out or force it to land on a chinese airbase (border control, standard procedure). If they do this on a regular basis that would have 10 times more effect than shooting down a sitting duck (act of war and all, they would litterally find NO ONE to back them).
Nao... a trigger happy idiot... just hope not...

[Russell]

Some viewpoints of Japanese government advisers listed in this article:

...the security situation in the east Asian region has begun to resemble Europe in the 1930s, when a resurgent, re-arming Germany began to project its power beyond its borders.

Then, there is an interesting commentary in The Independent:

Japan must bear responsibility for many recent flashpoints. Last year’s announcement by the Governor of Tokyo of plans to use public money to buy the islands from their private owner hardly aimed to defuse the tension. This time, though, it is China that has upped the ante.

[...]

But it is the reaction of the US that is crucial here. Indeed, in the context not only of Washington’s post-war commitment to the defence of Japanese territory (which includes the Senkaku Islands), but also the recent foreign policy “pivot to Asia” (prompted by rising Chinese power), Beijing’s move looks like as much of a test of Barack Obama as of Mr Abe.

The answer was unequivocal. On Tuesday, the US flew two unarmed B52s through the zone without notifying the Chinese.

[...]

Washington’s move was the right one. China cannot be allowed to throw its weight around; if Beijing has a case then it must be legally proven, not administered unilaterally at the point of a metaphorical bayonet. Equally, however, Japan has shown itself too ready to indulge in chest-beating of its own and Mr Abe at times exhibits disturbingly nationalist leanings. The US must be sure that, while maintaining regional balance, it does not endorse such posturing.

China’s economic rise inevitably brings disruption with it. And with both Beijing and Tokyo under growing domestic pressure for a show of strength abroad, the diplomatic task facing the US in Asia is as difficult and perilous as any. The Senkaku/Diaoyu are just a few distant rocks, but they may also be the fulcrum upon which one of the greatest challenges of 21st-century geopolitics will turn.

[matsuki]

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/94219

AUS joined the group of cuntries telling China to get fucked with their ADZ claims.

[Coligny]

http://www.mysinchew.com/node/94219

AUS joined the group of cuntries telling China to get fucked with their ADZ claims.

Just missing Lichtenstein to the list and they'll be really scared...

[Samurai_Jerk]

It looks like second best Korea is getting in on the act.

Japan, South Korean military planes defy China's new defense zone

Japanese and South Korean military aircraft flew through disputed air space over the East China Sea without informing China, officials said on Thursday, challenging a new Chinese air defense zone that has increased regional tensions and sparked concerns of an unintended clash.

The move came after Tokyo's close ally Washington defied China's demand that airplanes flying through its unilaterally announced zone identify themselves to Chinese authorities, flying two unarmed B-52 bombers over the islands on Tuesday without informing Beijing.

[...]

Also on Thursday, China rejected South Korea's demand for the repeal of the zone, but appeared to soften its demand that commercial aircraft tell its military authorities of any plans to transit the area. Japan's two biggest airlines have already begun defying that order.

[...]

A South Korean official also said a navy reconnaissance plane had flown over a submerged rock in the area claimed by both Beijing and Seoul, and that the flights would continue.

The rock, called Ieodo in Korea and Suyan Rock in China, is controlled by South Korea, which maintains a maritime research station built on it.

Asked about the South Korean flight, Chinese spokesman Qin only said that Beijing was aware of it.

South Korea's reaction to Beijing's weekend declaration has been somewhat muted, reflecting its efforts to forge closer ties with China and a chill in relations with Japan.

On Thursday, however, Seoul's vice defense minister told a senior Chinese military official that the move to impose the new rules created military tension in the region and called on Beijing to rectify the zone

"The Chinese reaction was that they will not be accepting the (South) Korean side's demand," Defense Ministry spokesman Kim Min-seok told reporters after talks between Vice Defense Minister Baek Seung-joo and Wang Guanzhong, the deputy chief of general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army.

[Coligny]

All those people should be locked in "beyond fucked" and not allowed out until they sort out their shit...

[Russell]

China sends warplanes into disputed airspace over East China Sea

China has sent warplanes into disputed airspace over the East China Sea after Japanese and South Korean military aircraft flew through the area, the Chinese state news agency reported.

China's air force spokesman Shen Jinke says several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft were sent on normal air patrols in the zone on Thursday. He was quoted by the state news agency Xinhua.

Shen described the flights as "a defensive measure and in line with international common practices". He said China's air force would remain on high alert and will take measures to protect the country's airspace.

Japanese and South Korean aircraft flew through the airspace without informing China, officials said on Thursday, challenging a new Chinese air defence zone that has increased regional tensions and sparked concerns of an unintended clash.

China rejected South Korea's demand for the repeal of the zone but appeared to soften its demand that commercial aircraft tell its military authorities of any plans to pass through the area. Japan's two biggest airlines have already begun defying that order.

"This has already increased the risk [that the situation] will escalate from confrontation to conflict," said Shi Yinhong, an expert on international relations at Renmin University in Beijing.

"I think China will take flexible measures towards any aeroplane that flies over the zone, and that will still be compatible with China's declarations," he added.

"America is not our direct enemy, and South Korea is our friend. But Japanese armed aircraft would be a different story. If they dare to come into China's declared zone, the Chinese air force will take action."

[...]

"The East China Sea air defence identification zone is not aimed at normal international flights," said a Chinese foreign ministry spokesman, Qin Gang. "We hope that relevant countries' airlines can proactively co-operate so there is more order and safety for flights."

[...]

"This was clearly very calculated, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a miscalculation," said Scott Harold, an expert on east Asian security at the Rand Corporation. China probably thought that declaring the zone was no different from its past strategic actions in the region – small, incremental steps that might annoy neighbouring countries but wouldn't cause them to react. Instead, it "inflamed an underlying suspicion that everyone had: that China is going to work in grey zones, push the envelope and expand its territorial sovereignty claims with every opportunity it gets".

China essentially has two options, Harold said: it "can do nothing, and confirm to the outside world that its rise is as risky as some people thought. Or on the other hand, it can do something to reassure the region and the world that it is not going to be a threat." For the Chinese leadership, the first could jeopardise a bevy of important diplomatic relationships; the second would entail a major loss of face.

"I don't know if there's an easy out here for China," Harold added. "The easy thing would be if they'd never done it in the first place."

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[Coligny]

"I don't know if there's an easy out here for China," Harold added. "The easy thing would be if they'd never done it in the first place."

Yea... better way to win is not to play...

China sends warplanes into disputed airspace over East China Sea

Seaplanes or pointies with floats ?

[Russell]

"I don't know if there's an easy out here for China," Harold added. "The easy thing would be if they'd never done it in the first place."

Yea... better way to win is not to play...

Nope.

They should have thought through the different scenarios that could emerge.

Apparently they did not consider the possibility that many of the world's major players would be pretty annoyed by it, and choose to explicitly violate China's new rules. They now risk a severe loss of face, in addition to showing the world that China's intentions are not as peaceful as they want us to believe. Looks like this whole issue is turning into a diplomatic disaster for China.

[Wage Slave]

What's the bet that the entire FUBAR will be found to be the fault of one, two, three or maybe four idiotic officials who acted without following proper procedure or authorisation. They will be taken out and shot at dawn for their impudence, either literally or figuratively, and face will be restored. Meanwhile, they can say it was a win for China because the message that China is not going to accept the status quo and is prepared to escalate the situation has gone out to the world.

[Coligny]

"I don't know if there's an easy out here for China," Harold added. "The easy thing would be if they'd never done it in the first place."

Yea... better way to win is not to play...

Nope.

They should have thought through the different scenarios that could emerge.

Apparently they did not consider the possibility that many of the world's major players would be pretty annoyed by it, and choose to explicitly violate China's new rules. They now risk a severe loss of face, in addition to showing the world that China's intentions are not as peaceful as they want us to believe. Looks like this whole issue is turning into a diplomatic disaster for China.

Come on... 0 thinking is needed... Kuweit Summer 1990... You don't take you neighbourgs shit especially if there is oil fields init...

[Coligny]

What's the bet that the entire FUBAR will be found to be the fault of one, two, three or maybe four idiotic officials who acted without following proper procedure or authorisation. They will be taken out and shot at dawn for their impudence, either literally or figuratively, and face will be restored. Meanwhile, they can say it was a win for China because the message that China is not going to accept the status quo and is prepared to escalate the situation has gone out to the world.

And sending the message that they don't control their army... (French-Algeria, Generals' putsch Algier 1961)

[legion]

Apparently they did not consider the possibility that many of the world's major players would be pretty annoyed by it, and choose to explicitly violate China's new rules. They now risk a severe loss of face, in addition to showing the world that China's intentions are not as peaceful as they want us to believe. Looks like this whole issue is turning into a diplomatic disaster for China.

I think they might be suffering from a massive echo chamber problem, propaganda aimed at their citizens bouncing back so loud that the idea they might overreach wasn't able to penetrate the din. Similar to the problem many large companies have, too many people at the top who got there by saying rather than doing the right thing.

[matsuki]

What's the bet that the entire FUBAR will be found to be the fault of one, two, three or maybe four idiotic officials who acted without following proper procedure or authorisation. They will be taken out and shot at dawn for their impudence, either literally or figuratively, and face will be restored. Meanwhile, they can say it was a win for China because the message that China is not going to accept the status quo and is prepared to escalate the situation has gone out to the world.

While that seems SOP in China (as well in Japan...though without the killing), I think they are beyond that option when they are sending out armed "patrols" of their BS claims.

[IparryU]

What's the bet that the entire FUBAR will be found to be the fault of one, two, three or maybe four idiotic officials who acted without following proper procedure or authorisation. They will be taken out and shot at dawn for their impudence, either literally or figuratively, and face will be restored. Meanwhile, they can say it was a win for China because the message that China is not going to accept the status quo and is prepared to escalate the situation has gone out to the world.

While that seems SOP in China (as well in Japan...though without the killing), I think they are beyond that option when they are sending out armed "patrols" of their BS claims.

The fact that Japan will cower away and hide behind their allies is why China is playing their cards this way.

What proved it even more so was when 2 USAF B-52s flew in their air zone unwarranted with no retaliation. I figure if Japan were to pull a ballzy move like that, shit would have hit the fan.

Not downplaying Japan or anything, but they done did dug a hole that they shouldn't be in now. And it drags other countries into their fight.


Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk 2

[Tsuru]

What's the bet that the entire FUBAR will be found to be the fault of one, two, three or maybe four idiotic officials who acted without following proper procedure or authorisation. They will be taken out and shot at dawn for their impudence, either literally or figuratively, and face will be restored. Meanwhile, they can say it was a win for China because the message that China is not going to accept the status quo and is prepared to escalate the situation has gone out to the world.

While that seems SOP in China (as well in Japan...though without the killing), I think they are beyond that option when they are sending out armed "patrols" of their BS claims.

The fact that Japan will cower away and hide behind their allies is why China is playing their cards this way.

What proved it even more so was when 2 USAF B-52s flew in their air zone unwarranted with no retaliation. I figure if Japan were to pull a ballzy move like that, shit would have hit the fan.

Not downplaying Japan or anything, but they done did dug a hole that they shouldn't be in now. And it drags other countries into their fight.


Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk 2

Perhaps the fact that China has a lot of angry young men sitting around with nobody to fuck, the chicom government has enough difficulties suppressing social unrest as it is and the fact that they are sitting on top of an immense real estate bubble might also factor into that equation....

What better way to galvanize the public by pretending to wage war against their old nemesis.

[Coligny]

Not sure the lack of p00n factor as much as the fact that on the same society you got people in BMW on one side and people eating hard boiled potatoes, when there is something to eat and wood for the fire...

I'm saying this by comparison with japanese 'sexless' society... It's not the lack of p00n, it's the lack of drive... but I don't see them invading the Philipines or any other 3rd world prostituion based-economy shithole over a daikimakura issue...

As for the bubble, they never disturb anyone before bursting... So while it's an impeding disaster, as of today it's barely registering as "for now all is fine, for now all is fine" like when you are in a car falling from a cliff...

[Coligny]

From Ex Skf newsletter...

After kindly informing China the other day that its two B52 bombers that flew inside the Air Defense Identification Zone over Senkaku Islands were unarmed, the United States government now says it is requesting the US commercial airlines to adhere to China's new rules and submit flight plans to China, to be safe.

The State Department Office of the Spokesperson (from 11/27/2013 daily press briefing, released on 11/29/2013; emphasis is mine):

China's Declared ADIZ - Guidance for U.S. Air Carriers

Question: Is there any specific guidance or information we are giving to U.S. carriers operating in China's recently declared Air Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ)?

Answer: Freedom of overflight and other internationally lawful uses of sea and airspace are essential to prosperity, stability, and security in the Pacific. We remain deeply concerned by China's November 23 declaration of an "East China Sea Air Identification Zone."

The U.S. government generally expects that U.S. carriers operating internationally will operate consistent with NOTAMs (Notices to Airmen) issued by foreign countries. Our expectation of operations by U.S. carriers consistent with NOTAMs does not indicate U.S. government acceptance of China's requirements for operating in the newly declared ADIZ.

[Mode Pumpkin: ON]
I dun't understand nuthing...
[Mode Pumpkin: OFF]

Which part of [does not indicate U.S. government acceptance of China's requirements] now means they accept it !?

Sure after there is this statement:

administration officials said they had made the decision to urge civilian planes to adhere to Beijing’s new rules in part because they worried about an unintended confrontation

But it seems more aboot avoiding to involve civvies in a boys fight than official acceptance. A bit safer than Jal/ana's directives from Tokyo, they were a bit against the wall, but should have declared they had no advice to give to the companies and officially tell them to act in order to maximize the safety od their flights... Or sumthing...

[Russell]

What's the bet that the entire FUBAR will be found to be the fault of one, two, three or maybe four idiotic officials who acted without following proper procedure or authorisation. They will be taken out and shot at dawn for their impudence, either literally or figuratively, and face will be restored. Meanwhile, they can say it was a win for China because the message that China is not going to accept the status quo and is prepared to escalate the situation has gone out to the world.

While that seems SOP in China (as well in Japan...though without the killing), I think they are beyond that option when they are sending out armed "patrols" of their BS claims.

The fact that Japan will cower away and hide behind their allies is why China is playing their cards this way.

What proved it even more so was when 2 USAF B-52s flew in their air zone unwarranted with no retaliation. I figure if Japan were to pull a ballzy move like that, shit would have hit the fan.

You probably did not get the news, but Japan already flew war planes through the new zone the first day.

[Russell]

China aircraft carrier 'avoids' Senkakus en route to training

China’s first aircraft carrier steered clear of the disputed Senkaku Islands now under the country’s newly designated air defense zone on the way to its maiden exercise in the high seas.

The 67,000-ton Liaoning left its home port of Qingdao, Shandong province, on Nov. 26, and entered the South China Sea through the Taiwan Strait on Nov. 28, according to the state-run Xinhua News Agency.

Observers were watching whether the ship would travel along the Chinese continent and through the Taiwan Strait or head for the Pacific Ocean across waters around Okinawa Prefecture.

If the Liaoning had passed near the Senkakus, administered by Japan as part of Okinawa but also claimed by China, it could have fueled tensions with Tokyo and Washington.

Four warships are accompanying the aircraft carrier for an extended exercise in the South China Sea, where China has territorial disputes with Vietnam and the Philippines.

“(The Liaoning’s route) has nothing to do with the regional situation,” Chinese defense ministry spokesman Yang Yujun told a news conference Nov. 28. “We ask you not to overstretch (the meaning of the route).”

Beijing’s designation of an air defense zone in the East China Sea on Nov. 23 has drawn sharp criticism from Tokyo and Washington as a unilateral attempt to undo the status quo.

U.S. bombers on Nov. 26 flew through China’s Air Defense Identification Zone without giving advance notice demanded by Chinese authorities.

According to Taiwan’s defense ministry, the Liaoning did not cross the median line between China and Taiwan when it navigated through the Taiwan Strait.

More

[Coligny]

Well... The paintjob is still brand new and it my be playing a good part toward the structural integrity of the hull... So, better not get it scratched yet...

Are all those people backpedalling faster than me in a whorehouse ?

[Russell]

Well... The paintjob is still brand new and it my be playing a good part toward the structural integrity of the hull... So, better not get it scratched yet...

Are all those people backpedalling faster than me in a whorehouse ?

Why would you backpedal in a whorehouse?!?