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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby gaijinpunch » Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:43 pm

Thought Japan was catching up to it's free world colleagues? Think again. Freedom of Press is possibly going to get a kick in the balls, with spiked boots.

If you’re living in Japan, you may be surprised to know that your right to know has been replaced by the right to remain silent. Shhh … don’t protest. It’s practically a done deal.

The first rule of the pending state secrets bill is that a secret is a secret. The second rule is that anyone who leaks a secret and/or a reporter who makes it public via a published report or broadcast can face up to 10 years in prison. The third rule is that there are no rules as to which government agencies can declare information to be a state secret and no checks on them to determine that they don’t abuse the privilege; even defunct agencies can rule their information to be secret. The fourth rule is that anything pertaining to nuclear energy is a state secret, which means there will no longer be any problems with nuclear power in this country because we won’t know anything about it. And what we don’t know can’t hurt us.


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EDIT: Sorry if this is found elsewhere... I'm not seeing a thread though.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Taro Toporific » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:53 pm

no-secrets.jpg
6,000 people turned out for today's anti-state secrets bill demo, forming human chain around the National Diet
pic.twitter.com/UcPE6R2Ot6. . . -- Rob Gilhooly (@RobGilhooly)'s twitter December 4, 2013
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby gaijinpunch » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:41 am

"...including Little Bo Peep who had LSD put in her miso soup."

Crazy.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Taro Toporific » Thu Dec 05, 2013 12:45 pm

Jake Adelstein's twitter wrote:
Screen Shot 2013-12-05 at 12.35.59 PM.png
Today the Japanese government had a secret meeting for journalists about the Secrecy Bill. Nice. -Jake Adelstein (@jakeadelstein) December 4, 2013
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby GomiGirl » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:03 pm

My BFF Mediatinker went out to the protests. Here is her account:

MediaTinker

MediaTinker wrote:Today I went to the Diet to show my disapproval of the National Secrets bill. It's a terrible law that would choke press freedom, allow the government to cover up anything in the name of national security, turn any issue into a matter of secret record, and even make demonstrations illegal. Bad, bad, bad. 80% of the citizens disapprove, but it is passing through the legislative process anyway. Even though I am not sure protest is a great game-changer, I feel strongly enough about this to get out there and be counted.


demo-friends-thumb-500x375-327.png


MediaTinker wrote:At the very end of the rally, exactly 90 minutes after it began, we rejoined the human chain and chanted, shouting "Against the National Secrets Act!" in Japanese. HIMITSU HOGOHOU HANTAI! There were all sorts of slogans promoted by different groups who came to the rally as well as some inventive signs and costumes. Most stuck to the topic at hand, but there were a few that included an anti-TPP (also worth protesting) and a No Nukes message on their signboards.

Although I am not sure that our protest made much difference, I am glad I took part. I really despise this bill.



Himitsu, himistu, himitsu Abe-chan!
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby matsuki » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:37 pm

They should add a verse with something like "chugoku mitai! kitachosen mitai! cause that's where we're heading...
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby CrankyBastard » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:15 pm

For the first time in 42 yrs of living here I'm a little concerned.
Even when Nakasone was at the helm, there was a counterbalance in his cabinet.
Today, ........ well, as I said, I am concerned!
:(
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby CrankyBastard » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:18 pm

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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Coligny » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:25 pm

CrankyBastard wrote:For the first time in 42 yrs of living here I'm a little concerned.
Even when Nakasone was at the helm, there was a counterbalance in his cabinet.
Today, ........ well, as I said, I am concerned!
:(


Sooo.... That whole nukular meltdown clusterfuck was business as usual to you ?

2 things...

1 whistleblower usually don't expect much of a normal life afterward... Because what lead them to act already make their life difficult. So it kinda won't change much.
2 foreign press is not concerned by this law... So in the days of the internet... It's a heavy handed measure that would have worked if we were still in the 50'

If they start targeting family members of whistleblowers wake me up. Until then, it's a law that only accomplish showing that the people in charge don't understand jackshit aboot the whole new web-cloud-thing we are in AND that japanese government is a democratic as the DDR was... Only in title... (Deutsch Demokratish Republik... The commienazis pre 1989 fall of the wall of Berlin)
Marion Marechal nous voila !

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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby CrankyBastard » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:42 pm

Coligny wrote:
CrankyBastard wrote:For the first time in 42 yrs of living here I'm a little concerned.
Even when Nakasone was at the helm, there was a counterbalance in his cabinet.
Today, ........ well, as I said, I am concerned!
:(


Sooo.... That whole nukular meltdown clusterfuck was business as usual to you ?

2 things...

1 whistleblower usually don't expect much of a normal life afterward... Because what lead them to act already make their life difficult. So it kinda won't change much.
2 foreign press is not concerned by this law... So in the days of the internet... It's a heavy handed measure that would have worked if we were still in the 50'

If they start targeting family members of whistleblowers wake me up. Until then, it's a law that only accomplish showing that the people in charge don't understand jackshit aboot the whole new web-cloud-thing we are in AND that japanese government is a democratic as the DDR was... Only in title... (Deutsch Demokratish Republik... The commienazis pre 1989 fall of the wall of Berlin)



Sorry Col, you've got too many tangents there for me to make head or tails of.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Coligny » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:49 pm

McDo's coffee... Sorry... Need 36h to calm down...
(Stuff weirdly addictive, got cravings all day long between hits...)
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ni oubli ni pardon

never forgive never forget/ for you illiterate kapitalist pigs


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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Yokohammer » Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:42 pm

I'm with Cranky on this one. Worried, not just about the secrecy bill, but about where the whole damn mess is headed. Abe is channeling his (much reviled) grandad, and that can't be good. I thought he was going to be OK at first, but nope, he started soft and gradually worked up to full-on fascist mode. Not liking the looks of this at all.

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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Coligny » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:57 pm

What I was trying to say:

Like laws giving jail time for suicide or attempts. A law against whistleblower won't prevent data to leak.

Assange, Snowden and -the other gay guy- are much better at convincing anyone it's not good to leak anything.

Whistleblower do it for reasons good or bad that are over these kind of petty laws.

Outside newspaper or the web do not fall under japanese juridiction, so as far as publication is concerned. The law is toothless, in the 50' when there was only TV/Radio/newspaper it might have worked. Today, not so much.

Meanwhile what this law accomplish is showing that the place is nothing more than your run of the mill banana dictatorship in the hands of clueless and totally unaccountable peoples.

BUT:
What I also think, is that this law is nothing new. The country is not new to censorship (AV) and when people get used to the concept, not so difficult to extend it. (slippery slope)
The press have always been lapdog of the power. The rest is more small time legal technicalities to make the law look more frightenning.

What they do is like putting a legal speed limit for DPRK's missiles if they hit Japan. Ok, that make 1 point more for the judges to discuss... But won't change much when the missile hit the ground.

Just look back at Fukushima. They didn't need this law to coverup everything they wanted. This law feels more like a regularisation of a practice than an extension of power.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Yokohammer » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:47 am

Coligny,

I think you're missing some important information on this bill.

It's not the whistleblowers who need to be worried, it's the average person just doing his or her job or trying to get on with life.

First of all, the bill is so vague about what constitutes a "secret" that the government can arbitrarily decide that anything is is a secret. They're saying they will set up an independent oversight committee, but that is not written into the bill, so even if they do it could just be a bunch of bureaucrats. But they're not legally required to. It's all bullshit.

Second, there's a clause in the bill that makes it illegal to even discuss gaining access to classified information. So if someone decides they don't like you and accuses you of "plotting" to steal state secrets, whatever that might be (and remember, the government is free to decide) then you can be locked up for five years. How are you going to prove your innocence? Thought police.

It is a gross infringement of civil liberties.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby CrankyBastard » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:31 am

Even these posts here could be construed as incitement to ferment a discussion about state secrets.
:jawdrop:
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Coligny » Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:16 pm

Yokohammer wrote:Coligny,

I think you're missing some important information on this bill.

It's not the whistleblowers who need to be worried, it's the average person just doing his or her job or trying to get on with life.

First of all, the bill is so vague about what constitutes a "secret" that the government can arbitrarily decide that anything is is a secret. They're saying they will set up an independent oversight committee, but that is not written into the bill, so even if they do it could just be a bunch of bureaucrats. But they're not legally required to. It's all bullshit.

Second, there's a clause in the bill that makes it illegal to even discuss gaining access to classified information. So if someone decides they don't like you and accuses you of "plotting" to steal state secrets, whatever that might be (and remember, the government is free to decide) then you can be locked up for five years. How are you going to prove your innocence? Thought police.

It is a gross infringement of civil liberties.



Seems i'm effectively missing few keypoints. Which make this law move Japan even closer to what the former DDR was.
But the cynical in me sees an improvement...Now instead of planting kiddypr0n on your computer the cops can put governmental secrets. Which makes finding asylum in other countries much easier...
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby matsuki » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:04 pm

Coligny wrote:Meanwhile what this law accomplish is showing that the place is nothing more than your run of the mill banana dictatorship in the hands of clueless and totally unaccountable peoples.


Yeah...despite being against this law, the majority of the populace is more concerned with AKB graduation, seasonal foods, makeup, and fashion than politics....and it shows.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Taro Toporific » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:09 pm

secrets.png

Source:
reuters.com/article/2013/12/05/us-japan-nuclear-fukushima-labour-insight...
via @Shogannai's twitter
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby CrankyBastard » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:56 pm

chokonen888 wrote:Yeah...despite being against this law, the majority of the populace is more concerned with AKB graduation, seasonal foods, makeup, and fashion than politics....and it shows.



That sums it up :(
The political fields have lain fallow for so long no one notices the manure being spread that will allow the seeds of fascism to germinate.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Lifer » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:24 pm

The most worrisome thing about it that I've seen so far was when, at one of their committee meetings, a diet member demanded setting up an independent oversight committee, and Abe's response was (repeatedly) "Yeah, we should probably do that."

Guy's got balls of steel, you gotta give him that. I mean he's basically saying, "Yeah, go F&#k yourself."

I wonder what impact this will have on their ability to arrest and indefinitely hold people. If they arrest you for something deemed to be a state 'secret' then is it possible that they won't even be able to tell you what you are charged with? What will the impact be on criminal trials? How can you prosecute a potential whistle-blower if you are not allowed to discuss 'the whistle'?

Seems like they're rushing through this bill without giving enough thought to the consequences. Another Japanese cluster f&#k, or a simple copy of parts of America's patriot act inspired by the recent leaks?
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby yanpa » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:58 pm

Both, probably.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby matsuki » Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:08 am

Lifer wrote:The most worrisome thing about it that I've seen so far was when, at one of their committee meetings, a diet member demanded setting up an independent oversight committee, and Abe's response was (repeatedly) "Yeah, we should probably do that."

Guy's got balls of steel, you gotta give him that. I mean he's basically saying, "Yeah, go F&#k yourself."

I wonder what impact this will have on their ability to arrest and indefinitely hold people. If they arrest you for something deemed to be a state 'secret' then is it possible that they won't even be able to tell you what you are charged with? What will the impact be on criminal trials? How can you prosecute a potential whistle-blower if you are not allowed to discuss 'the whistle'?

Seems like they're rushing through this bill without giving enough thought to the consequences. Another Japanese cluster f&#k, or a simple copy of parts of America's patriot act inspired by the recent leaks?


They'll probably tell you what you're charged with but just like now, they can hold you 3 weeks+ without even charging you...and even if they decide to charge you with anything, they don't have to disclose any evidence to you, and may pick and choose what evidence they want to present at a trial. Let me remind you what happened the last time they got called out on this bullshit...



In short, I'd be more worried about people disappearing without any outside contact while they are detained and put on trial. They seem to know that all your contacts are in your phone nowadays, and once they enter that into evidence, you are fucked at contacting anyone unless you know someone's number by heart.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby chibaka » Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:59 am

Welcome to the new Japan...
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Russell » Sat Dec 07, 2013 8:25 am

You think he also misses a ball?
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Coligny » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:05 am

Russell wrote:You think he also misses a ball?


Just one ?
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Taro Toporific » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:24 am

So when do the secret state-secrets arrests start since nobody can know about the arrests themselves since they're state secrets? :rolleyes:

Japan’s Abe Secures Passage of Secrecy Law as Opposition Revolts
bloomberg.com Dec 7, 2013 12:00 AM GMT+0900
Prime Minister Shinzo Abe secured final passage of a bill granting Japan’s government sweeping powers to declare state secrets, a measure aimed at shoring up defense ties with the U.S. that prompted a public backlash and revolt by the opposition.
The upper house of the Diet gave final approval of the measures in Tokyo late yesterday after opposition parties first forced a no-confidence vote in Abe’s government in the lower house. The wrangling over the bill forced the government to extend the parliamentary session, due to end yesterday, for two more days.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Taro Toporific » Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:46 am

Japan now the Hades of free speech & investigative journalism; Woodford-san does not approve
---Japan's Ominous Secrecy Law is passed; Michael Woodford, ex-Olympus CEO, whistleblower, truth-teller explains his concerns---
Japan Subculture Research Center by Jake Adelstein / December 6, 2013

The Prime Minister Abe Shinzo (LDP) led ruling coalition passed the ominous new Designated Secrets Bill yesterday in the middle of the night (circa 23:40), apparently fearing that the light of another day, or the harsh radiation of the truth, would cause the legislation to shrivel up and die. The ruling government cut off debate and forced a vote in the upper house of Japans parliament, The Diet, just before the witching hour. 130 were in favor, 82 were opposed.

The law will punish journalists and whistleblowers who divulge government secrets with up to ten years in prison, and up to five years for those who instigate leaks (ask questions about state secrets). There is no independent third-party organization set in place to monitor how the law is applied and it gives every ministry and the smallest government agency or related committee carte blanche to declare any inconvenient information top secret.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, the LDP, Komeito, and Your Party relentlessly pushed the bill forward, despite a sudden dip in cabinet support rates to below 50% and increasing opposition within Japan and the world. Earlier this week, the LDP Secretary General, Shigeru Ishiba, labeled the growing protests tantamount to terrorism which prompted more public outcry. There were estimated to be 15,000 people outside Japans parliament (The Diet) chanting in protest when the bill was passed.

Every major news organization, publishing group, human rights group, in Japan opposed the bill. Even the Doctors and Dentists Association voiced disapproval of the draconian legislation. According to opinion polls, only 25% of the public supported it, and 50% opposed it.

Over 80% of the Japanese population fears that the new laws will be used to cover up scandals and hide the truth from the public.

One individual who shares that fear is Michael Woodford, the former CEO of Olympus, Japans mega optical maker. Mr. Woodford courageously exposed a 1 billion dollar accounting fraud at the company while he was still the CEO, at great personal risk, because he believed the truth had to be known. The mainstream Japanese media and associated parties went to great lengths to ignore his whistle blowing. Even the Financial Services Agency, which is supposed to ensure the transparency of Japans financial markets, made efforts to bury the story and leaked information which suggested that no criminal activity had been committed. It was the persistent investigative reporting of Japanese magazines like FACTA (which broke the story), ZAITEN, and follow-ups by the foreign press that made the case impossible for law enforcement to ignore.


Mr. Woodford expresses his views on Japans new secrecy law quite eloquently below.

As someone who during the Olympus scandal experienced first-hand the deferential and self-censoring nature of much of the Japanese media, Im profoundly concerned by the new state secrecy law. I remember a discussion with a leading Japanese financial journalist in January 2012, (held in front of Jonathan Soble of the Financial Times who broke the story) as to what would have happened if I had given them the file supporting my allegations, as opposed to a Western media outlet. The journalist was extremely honest in stating that they would have loved to have run the story but the editor would never have allowed this. The message was clear; you do not challenge a large Nikkei listed company of wrongdoing, regardless of the strength of evidence. I found this at the time profoundly depressing, as in developed democracies its the media which is the most effective mechanism for holding the powerful to account. We have seen this in practice from everything from Watergate to British parliamentarians being exposed for abusing their expenses.

Of course, every country has a fundamental right to protect its citizens interests and there is an obvious need for some issues relating to national security to be secret. However, it is the vague definition in the new bill of what actually constitutes a state secret which potentially gives officials carte blanche to block the release of information on a vast range of subjects. Whenever Im asked to comment on the disputed islands in the East China Sea and ongoing tensions with China, I always emphasize that Japan is a peace-loving democracy, but this loosely worded bill, in my opinion, is more characteristic of the state controls of the worlds autocratic regimes. In essence, anything which makes a journalist in Japan even more uncomfortable with exposing wrongdoing, wherever it may exist, is a worrying development when transparency and openness should be the way forward.


So it goes in the land of the setting sun.

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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby matsuki » Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:34 am

so....new secret police force?
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Russell » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:47 am

Japan's secrecy bill condemned by Nobel academics

Japan’s controversial new state secrets law was condemned Saturday as “the largest ever threat to democracy in postwar Japan” by a group of academics, including two Nobel prize winners, reports said.

On Friday night, the Diet adopted a new law handing out stiffer penalties for those who spill state secrets, despite a public outcry over fears the legislation was draconian and would impinge on press freedom and the public’s right to know.

In a strongly worded attack on the new law, a group of 31 academics, including Nobel Prize winners Toshihide Maskawa and Hideki Shirakawa, accused the Japanese government of threatening “the fundamental human rights and pacifist principles” established by the country’s constitution.

The controversial bill, proposed by the right-wing government of Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, was approved by the upper house a few days after it was passed in the lower house.

The scholars’ statement—which Kyodo said was also endorsed by a further 3,150 academics—condemned the country’s ruling bloc of behaving in a way that was “reminiscent of the prewar government that wrested away freedom of thought and freedom of the press” by pushing the law through both Japan’s legislative chambers.

Shirakawa was awarded the Nobel prize for chemistry in 2000 while Maskawa won the prestigious award for physics in 2008. The Kyodo report did not name any of the other academics who signed the statement.

The law allows government ministers to designate as a state secret information related to defense, diplomacy, counter-intelligence and counter-terrorism.

Abe has argued that the measure is necessary to plug a notoriously leaky government machine, which prevents its chief ally the United States from sharing intelligence.

But critics say the categories are so vague that almost anything could fit the definition. They worry that information that is embarrassing to governing politicians or to their patrons could easily be hidden from public view.

They point to the way that Tokyo withheld news of the severity of the nuclear disaster at Fukushima in 2011, and say a state that already operates largely behind closed doors will become even more secretive.

That problem is exacerbated by a relatively weak institutional press.

The bill allows for jail terms of up to 10 years for those convicted of leaking state secrets, as well as for those who acquire secrets through illegal means—for example through trespass.

Anyone found guilty of encouraging someone to leak a state secret could face up to five years in jail, a provision that has drawn a chorus of protest from journalists, lawyers and academics.

More than 250 film celebrities, including animation directors Hayao Miyazaki and Isao Takahata, along with journalists, researchers, lawyers and other influential figures had appealed for making every effort to block the law which they criticised for being “anti-liberty, anti-democratic and dangerous”.

The legislation does not provide for any independent oversight of the process.

Abe has said the government intends to set up panels to provide checks and balances in the process of defining a secret.

But opponents say nothing is written into the legislation and government-appointed panels are in any case unlikely to rule against their paymaster.

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The only way to do something about this law is voting the bums out of office.

Hopefully these protests make people aware of what they can do next time at the ballot box.

Time for the younger generation to become more politically engaged.
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Re: Keep secret state secrets secret or go to jail

Postby Yokohammer » Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:55 am

Russell wrote:Japan's secrecy bill condemned by Nobel academics

Although not mentioned in this article, I saw an interview with Masukawa on TV, either last night or the night before, where he was saying that he believed Japan has embarked on a "path to war" (戦争への道). Them's strong words. Strong, scary words. Things probably won't actually go that way, but it sure doesn't look as though the J-gov't is gearing up for peace.

Abe is finally showing showing his true colours.
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