Just scatter 'em to the wind, sheesh

[Taro Toporific]

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Some Buddhist temples now accepting ashes through the mail
--"The family system in Japan...based on holding memorial services for ancestors, is on the verge of collapse" --
AJW by The Asahi Shimbun | 2013dec31
...Nyubutsuji temple in Iyo, Ehime Prefecture, has been providing such a service since 2011, although it was not officially approved by the city. Normally, temples in Japan only allow worshippers to bury the ashes of family members in purchased graves located on temple grounds.
The temple’s service accepts delivered cremated remains for 55,000 yen ($520) through the mail. A permit to have them buried is also needed. The fee covers storage at the temple's charnel house for a 50-year period. After that time, the ashes will be moved into a joint grave.
According to the temple, those who have used the service so far include women who have been placed in the awkward position of having to care for the ashes of their divorced husbands...
<big snip>
...The head priest, Eiju Hashimoto, said accepting delivered cremated remains was one way for the temple to open up to the outside world because the declining birthrate means there is not much future in relying on only those who worship at the temple.
Kenji Ishii, a professor of the sociology of religion at Kokugakuin University in Tokyo, said, "The family system in Japan, which had been based on holding memorial services for ancestors, is on the verge of collapse, and there has been an increase in the absence of families memorializing the dead."

[matsuki]

Hmmmmmm, really is time for that new website!

[Russell]

Right, mail-order funerals.

Looks like a good business.

I could have thought of that myself...

[yanpa]

Ah, but you didn't, that's the point.

[Russell]

But I could still set up a competition to this business.

It's not like there is much know-how involved in collecting ashes from the deceased...

[yanpa]

Can you guarantee the ashes will be stored at your charnel house for a 50-year period?

[Russell]

Can you guarantee the ashes will be stored at your charnel house for a 50-year period?

Do you want an honest answer to that question?

[yanpa]

As you won't be competing with FG.com, Inc.'s "Oshiire Internment Service" ("Preserve Granny as you last knew her! And her pension too!") I'm not too bothered either way.

[omae mona]

As you won't be competing with FG.com, Inc.'s "Oshiire Internment Service" ("Preserve Granny as you last knew her! And her pension too!") I'm not too bothered either way.

Now that is brilliant. Nobody knows how many thousands of people have been doing it themselves, as a hobby. A professional service would be a hit.

[matsuki]

Why bother with a charnel house?

Elsewhere, other temples have begun to accept ashes through the mail to be interred in joint graves.

One such temple, Kenshoin in Kumagaya, Saitama Prefecture, began the service in October.

Most temples have joint graves like this. Everyone from temple families, priests, to those who cannot afford a family grave go in there. I don't see a problem with receiving ashes to be placed there, in person, by mail or by camel. The method of getting the ashes to the temple doesn't change where they end up or the services performed for them.

As far as the "verge of collapse" comments, it only seems to be going that way in/near the big cities. We're looking to expand the cemetery here as there are more people that want graves than there are spaces.

[Coligny]

Can you guarantee the ashes will be stored at your charnel house for a 50-year period?

In my bunker/family that seems to be the minimum duration to hold onto anything including old baby clothes, newspaper and pretty much everything you can put your hand on...

[matsuki]

Can you guarantee the ashes will be stored at your charnel house for a 50-year period?

In my bunker/family that seems to be the minimum duration to hold onto anything including old baby clothes, newspaper and pretty much everything you can put your hand on...

...and meat....which is why I hope you have a separate fridge for the kitchen

[Coligny]

Can you guarantee the ashes will be stored at your charnel house for a 50-year period?

In my bunker/family that seems to be the minimum duration to hold onto anything including old baby clothes, newspaper and pretty much everything you can put your hand on...

...and meat....which is why I hope you have a separate fridge for the kitchen

Fuque Youze, I'm living the prepper dream, I just need to go to the kitchen to have my live preview of life on earth after the collapse of civilisation...

Btw, I don't know for Tokyo or Niigata (please)... But here in Aichi you don't have ashes, you have a sordid pile of bones... Could do it once almost without fainting, but when the old cat died a nurse from the vet was tasked with dealing with the ceremony. One is now on a little square box (That I really have to enclose into a Lemarchand Puzzle Box*) while the other is resting in an urn shaped like Anubis the god of death... Waaayyy cooler than Osiris in my book...


*:

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[Russell]

My experience is that it is ashes in the form of bones, so I am surprised that in some areas the bones are mostly intact.

I guess it depends on the grilling time...

[matsuki]

It's normal to end up with ashes and some bones that didn't become ash...the graves are basically like square donuts underneath so the ashes/bones further disintegrate back into the same earth regardless of that grave they're put in. (which makes it even creepier that a neighbor still maintains a vegetable garden within the temple)

Apparently the temple has been shelling out insane money to get the earth packed and a cement square donut part made each time...I'm sure I can rent the earth packing equipment and, with a lil help from Taro, could make a plywood mold for the square donuts.

[Yokohammer]

It's normal to end up with ashes and some bones that didn't become ash...the graves are basically like square donuts underneath so the ashes/bones further disintegrate back into the same earth regardless of that grave they're put in. (which makes it even creepier that a neighbor still maintains a vegetable garden within the temple)

Apparently the temple has been shelling out insane money to get the earth packed and a cement sqaure donut part made each time...I'm sure I can rent the earth packing equipment and, with a lil help from Taro, could make a plywood mold for the square donuts.

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

[matsuki]

It's normal to end up with ashes and some bones that didn't become ash...the graves are basically like square donuts underneath so the ashes/bones further disintegrate back into the same earth regardless of that grave they're put in. (which makes it even creepier that a neighbor still maintains a vegetable garden within the temple)

Apparently the temple has been shelling out insane money to get the earth packed and a cement sqaure donut part made each time...I'm sure I can rent the earth packing equipment and, with a lil help from Taro, could make a plywood mold for the square donuts.

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

True, but with the aversion to death people here have, you'd think they'd make a fuss over dead people veggies. TIJ though so who knows, it might be the next hayari food craze.

Urns within the grave? That would defeat the point of having them open on the bottom...and take up more space.

Yeah, it's not like much is identifiable after cremation.

[Coligny]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

[Coligny]

It's normal to end up with ashes and some bones that didn't become ash...the graves are basically like square donuts underneath so the ashes/bones further disintegrate back into the same earth regardless of that grave they're put in. (which makes it even creepier that a neighbor still maintains a vegetable garden within the temple)

Apparently the temple has been shelling out insane money to get the earth packed and a cement square donut part made each time...I'm sure I can rent the earth packing equipment and, with a lil help from Taro, could make a plywood mold for the square donuts.

You might want to line that plywood with aluminum sheeting if you want it to be reusable. For building, when casting/pouring concrete, you use giant panels, screwed in the shape of the final mold, then spray release oil before pouring and vibrating with a giant pneumatic dildo (to remove air bubbles)

[matsuki]

vibrating with a giant pneumatic dildo (to remove air bubbles)

Well at least I already have one part of the equation

[Yokohammer]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

Not quite. You see the whole cremated body, but then they take it out back, crush some of it up, and bring you those "selected bits" on a tray, a few of which family members then ceremonially pick up and put in the urn, but then the attendant does the rest, sometimes explaining what each bit is as he/she puts it in the urn. You don't start picking up the remains immediately after cremation.

[Russell]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

Not quite. You see the whole cremated body, but then they take it out back, crush some of it up, and bring you those "selected bits" on a tray, a few of which family members then ceremonially pick up and put in the urn, but then the attendant does the rest, sometimes explaining what each bit is as he/she puts it in the urn. You don't start picking up the remains immediately after cremation.

There may be regional differences.

Here in Hyogo we got the key of the oven where my mother-in-law was cremated, and my wife got to open the oven after a couple of hours.

That kind of guaranteed that the ashes were genuine (provided the crematorium didn't have a spare key, which they probably have).

Then, some employee from the crematorium gives an anatomy lesson, explaining what the different parts are, while putting his non-equal chopsticks (one bamboo, and one made of another wood) in some parts (like the skull). Thereafter the family members cherry pick the ashes with their chopsticks and put them in the urn.

I do not recall there were bones that were non-incinerated. But then again, it depends on the grilling time.

[Yokohammer]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

Not quite. You see the whole cremated body, but then they take it out back, crush some of it up, and bring you those "selected bits" on a tray, a few of which family members then ceremonially pick up and put in the urn, but then the attendant does the rest, sometimes explaining what each bit is as he/she puts it in the urn. You don't start picking up the remains immediately after cremation.

There may be regional differences.

Here in Hyogo we got the key of the oven where my mother-in-law was cremated, and my wife got to open the oven after a couple of hours.

That kind of guaranteed that the ashes were genuine (provided the crematorium didn't have a spare key, which they probably have).

Then, some employee from the crematorium gives an anatomy lesson, explaining what the different parts are, while putting his non-equal chopsticks (one bamboo, and one made of another wood) in some parts (like the skull). Thereafter the family members cherry pick the ashes with their chopsticks and put them in the urn.

I do not recall there were bones that were non-incinerated. But then again, it depends on the grilling time.

Yeah, probably.
I have attended three cremations in the last 10 years, but all of them were in the Kanto/Kanagawa area so my experience is pretty much limited to that.

In all of those cases the large skeletal bones were pretty much all in place right after cremation, and a notably smaller amount of "stuff" came out from around the back afterwards. Maybe the bones actually do compact that much when crushed, but I distinctly remember being told that they only bring you the important bits (for your anatomy lesson), as I mentioned above.

[Coligny]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

Not quite. You see the whole cremated body, but then they take it out back, crush some of it up, and bring you those "selected bits" on a tray, a few of which family members then ceremonially pick up and put in the urn, but then the attendant does the rest, sometimes explaining what each bit is as he/she puts it in the urn. You don't start picking up the remains immediately after cremation.

There may be regional differences.

Here in Hyogo we got the key of the oven where my mother-in-law was cremated, and my wife got to open the oven after a couple of hours.

That kind of guaranteed that the ashes were genuine (provided the crematorium didn't have a spare key, which they probably have).

Then, some employee from the crematorium gives an anatomy lesson, explaining what the different parts are, while putting his non-equal chopsticks (one bamboo, and one made of another wood) in some parts (like the skull). Thereafter the family members cherry pick the ashes with their chopsticks and put them in the urn.

I do not recall there were bones that were non-incinerated. But then again, it depends on the grilling time.

Yup, same here...

Don't know for felines as I pussied-out...

[matsuki]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

Not quite. You see the whole cremated body, but then they take it out back, crush some of it up, and bring you those "selected bits" on a tray, a few of which family members then ceremonially pick up and put in the urn, but then the attendant does the rest, sometimes explaining what each bit is as he/she puts it in the urn. You don't start picking up the remains immediately after cremation.

There may be regional differences.

Here in Hyogo we got the key of the oven where my mother-in-law was cremated, and my wife got to open the oven after a couple of hours.

That kind of guaranteed that the ashes were genuine (provided the crematorium didn't have a spare key, which they probably have).

Then, some employee from the crematorium gives an anatomy lesson, explaining what the different parts are, while putting his non-equal chopsticks (one bamboo, and one made of another wood) in some parts (like the skull). Thereafter the family members cherry pick the ashes with their chopsticks and put them in the urn.

I do not recall there were bones that were non-incinerated. But then again, it depends on the grilling time.

Yup, same here...

Don't know for felines as I pussied-out...

I love explaining the procedure to newb FG's who thought funerals were to bring graceful closure to the people who survived the deceased....seeing and picking through yaki-grandma's remains with chopsticks can invoke some great visuals

[IparryU]

Animal bones, people bones, it's all part of the same cycle. No big deal.

But ... and I'm sure there are regional differences ... aren't the bones/ashes placed in the grave in urns?

Another interesting point: the bones and ashes you're given, in the urn, at the crematory are apparently only a "representative selection" from the cremation. You're only given the important bits, and the rest gets disposed of elsewhere.

"Are given" !?

Dood, you pick them yourself fresh from the cooking tray...

Not quite. You see the whole cremated body, but then they take it out back, crush some of it up, and bring you those "selected bits" on a tray, a few of which family members then ceremonially pick up and put in the urn, but then the attendant does the rest, sometimes explaining what each bit is as he/she puts it in the urn. You don't start picking up the remains immediately after cremation.

There may be regional differences.

Here in Hyogo we got the key of the oven where my mother-in-law was cremated, and my wife got to open the oven after a couple of hours.

That kind of guaranteed that the ashes were genuine (provided the crematorium didn't have a spare key, which they probably have).

Then, some employee from the crematorium gives an anatomy lesson, explaining what the different parts are, while putting his non-equal chopsticks (one bamboo, and one made of another wood) in some parts (like the skull). Thereafter the family members cherry pick the ashes with their chopsticks and put them in the urn.

I do not recall there were bones that were non-incinerated. But then again, it depends on the grilling time.

Yup, same here...

Don't know for felines as I pussied-out...

I love explaining the procedure to newb FG's who thought funerals were to bring graceful closure to the people who survived the deceased....seeing and picking through yaki-grandma's remains with chopsticks can invoke some great visuals

If this is real... You gots to have wifey show me how its done.

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