Japanese ECO....err GAMAN homes

[matsuki]

Insulation, wood stoves, reasonable heating measures...muda, sonna iranai, mottainai, shoganainainainainainai

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http://newsonjapan.com/html/newsdesk/article/106528.php

[Coligny]

Charles_Robert_Darwin_by_John_Collier.jpg

[Russell]

A 91-year-old woman and her 62-year-old son apparently froze to death in their home in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture, police said Monday.

According to police, Sumiko Niizuma and her son Akira were found dead on Saturday. An autopsy revealed that Sumiko has frozen to death but it didn't show the cause of Akira's death, Fuji TV reported.

Little Akira probably died of sorrow...

[legion]

It's cold in Fukushima, but I think their cause of death may be fuel poverty. Not enough money for the paraffin man to come round.

[kurogane]

It's cold in Fukushima, but I think their cause of death may be fuel poverty. Not enough money for the paraffin man to come round.

Yeah. Good call. I have done nights at -10 C in Highland Gifu with no heat and no problem, though I did have my Taiga 4 Season Bag and a really funky heat trap canopy setup. I don't think this was an accident. Perhaps even a conscious decision to end their fatigue from fuel poverty? Hanging on in quiet desperation only works when you know the tunnel has a light at the end. A sad story.

But I was reminded that what I call kerosene is paraffin, though I think of that as candle material. Actually makes good, super cheap ski wax, too.

[Coligny]

No suicide note ?
Dying of cold when you got shelter and clothes ?

[kurogane]

Dying of cold when you got shelter and clothes ?

Yeah, that was my point. No way anybody dies at -4 C in ahouse unless they try. As for the lack of a suicide notes, I think you been watching too many old Alain Delon Whodunnits? I like them too, mind. Learned lots of Japanese watching those in my Tokeeyo days.

Anyways, still a sad story. I always get a Darwinian chuckle at the inevitable "75 year old man dies falling off roof whilst trying to fix TV antenna during typhoon" reports, but fuel poverty in Tohoku??????????

No fun to be had there. mrffffffffff

[Coligny]

Nahhhh, it was CSI Morillon sur Bieuvre...

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[legion]

No suicide note ?
Dying of cold when you got shelter and clothes ?

old people don't feel the cold so acutely and hypothermia sets in, they just drift off to sleep and never wake up, happens in the UK every year

[matsuki]

No suicide note ?
Dying of cold when you got shelter and clothes ?

old people don't feel the cold so acutely and hypothermia sets in, they just drift off to sleep and never wake up, happens in the UK every year

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"I'm cold!"

Seriously though....I'm fed up with the ECO on paper but BULLSHIT performance of Japanese homes. My ECO'd place at the temple is great on all the walls/windows, the attic....but then there is zero insulation under the floors

[Russell]

Can you get under the floors to do it yourself?

[wagyl]

One plus with the recent snows is that at long last I have a barrier around the house almost to the eaves which stops the wind blowing underneath the house. It is like being in a tent in an igloo here now, great thermal insulation.

[Coligny]

No suicide note ?
Dying of cold when you got shelter and clothes ?

old people don't feel the cold so acutely and hypothermia sets in, they just drift off to sleep and never wake up, happens in the UK every year

melt-1[1].jpg

"I'm cold!"

Seriously though....I'm fed up with the ECO on paper but BULLSHIT performance of Japanese homes. My ECO'd place at the temple is great on all the walls/windows, the attic....but then there is zero insulation under the floors

Well... In a nation of 12years old, having to constantly play pretend games is part of the day...
Let's pretend eco... Yay !!!

At least they toned down the metabo bullshit... Until they find new made up scales and rules to try to micromanage people...

[kurogane]

One plus with the recent snows is that at long last I have a barrier around the house almost to the eaves which stops the wind blowing underneath the house. It is like being in a tent in an igloo here now, great thermal insulation.

bundles of Kaya with horizontal bamboo runners make a brilliant winter wall and snow catch. They insulate before the snow builds and give it perfect structure once it does. If you make it right you get a nice lean-to vestibule under the eaves. A great place for a winter smoke and coffee. Especially on a sunny day. Must be bueatiful after a toke or two, not that I ever found out

[matsuki]

Can you get under the floors to do it yourself?

Not sure what to do....I think the issue is fucked "We Japanese way is superior" thinking when building as much as the BS ECO mentality. Meaning that in my bedroom, the tatami flooring actually insulates quite well....but when you build the way they did back when this was built, you end up with rooms that have no tatami to insulate the floors...which are a few cm's lower than the sliding door frames between each room. (Can you say trip me?) Basically "westernized" look by removing the tatami but not replacing the tatami with any kind of insulation or filler This is not a blend of the old and new styles of building, it's a veneer of new style on the skeleton of the old...with no guts!

Soooo I'm thinking SIPs flooring style filler in the living room....solves the floor height and insulation issue with one stone. Has this been "invented" in Japan yet?? I have to imagine they have something better than just that wood flooring roll to put over the tatami. Something like interlocking, insulating, wood flooring in the shape of tatami or just made to order SIPs style flooring for replacing tatami?? Unfortunately, I didn't know about this BS lack of insulation before I started building a new kitchen...with proper counter height.... So I would probably opt to insulate from underneath in the dining kitchen. Any idea what's available to do that here?

[kurogane]

Any idea what's available to do that here?

Any decent home centre has a variety of interlocking "wooden" flooring kits, and the more you pay the more woody you get. Obviously, cheaper stuff is more tinny, often not woody at all. I would think you could lay it on that harder foam insulation, though you'd need to build a weight truss to accommodate for sinkage.

How handy are you? It also depends on how important finish is to you and her. I have done some pretty rough but highly functional renovations in rented houses and the landlords always approved. I asked first, of course, and embellished my carpentry skills, which are gifted rudimentary at best.

[matsuki]

Any idea what's available to do that here?

Any decent home centre has a variety of interlocking "wooden" flooring kits, and the more you pay the more woody you get. Obviously, cheaper stuff is more tinny, often not woody at all. I would think you could lay it on that harder foam insulation, though you'd need to build a weight truss to accommodate for sinkage.

How handy are you? It also depends on how important finish is to you and her. I have done some pretty rough but highly functional renovations in rented houses and the landlords always approved. I asked first, of course, and embellished my carpentry skills, which are gifted rudimentary at best.

If I'm still stuck here again tomorrow, I might as well go out and see. One of my buddies in MIE mentioned finding some sort of SIPs here but was thrown off on the price...can't hurt to try if it's only one room I'm attacking. Handy I am...In the past few days I managed to disassemble both our cars, install most of the kitchen, and reassemble both cars....only to find out my route home is still tsuuukodome I didn't even attempt to head out...as fun as getting stranded by myself at an onsen sounds, instead of cute lemurs in Yukata, I have a feeling the bars will be filled with all the stranded truck drivers.

Speaking of "decent home centers"....last week Komeri blew me away with a "yes, we cut wood...oh wait, you want us to cut that? We only cut it if you buy the wood here." (Was trying to get them to cut down some IKEA cabinet filler pieces as I don't yet have a real workbench or proper saw) I think I offended them into it though....konkainomi

[wagyl]

Also strong in your region (but they can't spell in their URL) http://www.hc-musashi.jp/musashi/sub/sh ... tml#nigata

and it takes a very special kind of lemur to be in a yukata in more than 2 metres of snow.

[matsuki]

Also strong in your region (but they can't spell in their URL) http://www.hc-musashi.jp/musashi/sub/sh ... tml#nigata

Yeah! They just opened up on near here and that place is 9999999999X better than Komeri...or the Komeri "Power" that is literally across the street from me. LOL, I know it's home center but then I first saw the URL, I was like Hockey Club Musashi?

and it takes a very special kind of lemur to be in a yukata in more than 2 metres of snow.

Indeed...but I don't plan to let her keep the Yukata on for very long

[Russell]

Choko, I take it you can't get under the floor, so then the only way is to remove the floor, install isolation foam, and cover it up. (Of course, you could also put isolation on your old floors, but I am not sure how that works out)

Many home centers sell foam boards of 25 cm wide, which is about the distance between supports below the floor. Or you could cut it yourself from the bigger 910 by 1820 foam boards.

Good home centers (with professional stuff) are Musashi mentioned above, and Royal Home Center.

Actually, in Royal I saw today some metal parts called WZピン to hang the foam between the floor supports.

Then there are also the Konan Pro shops, but looks like they don't have anything in your area. The normal Konan shops are just home centers, but their Konan Pro shops are for professionals. Unfortunately there are not so many of those.

[matsuki]

I think I can get down there, this place has the sub floor storage areas in the kitchen. Just not too crazy about doing it now with all the mush underneath. This here is swampland and with all the snow/rain lately, it's probably like tar down there. As soon as it warms up (and dries a bit) I'll take a look and measurements....then decide whether I want to waste a day at that or let the temple pay the jiji daikusan to get dirty for me. (he saw my Ikea kitchen today and is blown away that it doesn't look like the normal crap "shisutemukichennnnnn" he quoted the rents something like 100man for....and shock/awed by the "takasugi" 93cm counter height)

[yanpa]

let the temple pay the jiji daikusan to get dirty for me.

Whatever floats your boat... must be one of those inaka customs I guess

[matsuki]

let the temple pay the jiji daikusan to get dirty for me.

Whatever floats your boat... must be one of those inaka customs I guess

[matsuki]

Choko, I take it you can't get under the floor, so then the only way is to remove the floor, install isolation foam, and cover it up. (Of course, you could also put isolation on your old floors, but I am not sure how that works out)

Many home centers sell foam boards of 25 cm wide, which is about the distance between supports below the floor. Or you could cut it yourself from the bigger 910 by 1820 foam boards.

I forgot to mention me popping my head down there before I left....the place has foam boards (as you described) tacked on the entire underside of the structure. So....back to the tatami being a great insulator and the tacked on foam not up to the job. Not sure what else I can do besides adding flooring on top. (though it's less of a problem now as winter is on it's last wind)

[Russell]

Choko, I take it you can't get under the floor, so then the only way is to remove the floor, install isolation foam, and cover it up. (Of course, you could also put isolation on your old floors, but I am not sure how that works out)

Many home centers sell foam boards of 25 cm wide, which is about the distance between supports below the floor. Or you could cut it yourself from the bigger 910 by 1820 foam boards.

I forgot to mention me popping my head down there before I left....the place has foam boards (as you described) tacked on the entire underside of the structure. So....back to the tatami being a great insulator and the tacked on foam not up to the job. Not sure what else I can do besides adding flooring on top. (though it's less of a problem now as winter is on it's last wind)

How thick is that foam?

My house has 60mm of foam under the floors, which insulates reasonably well, but of course it could always be improved.

[Coligny]

if wind draft can go through, I think your foamboarding is worth cat p00p...

[matsuki]

I'll check the thickness but my guess is 2-3cm's....and I don't think it's windproof with the way it's "installed"

[Coligny]

I'll check the thickness but my guess is 2-3cm's....and I don't think it's windproof with the way it's "installed"

There's insulation foam in a can for this...

But everytime i tried to use some it turned into a complete disaster.

[matsuki]

I'll check the thickness but my guess is 2-3cm's....and I don't think it's windproof with the way it's "installed"

There's insulation foam in a can for this...

But everytime i tried to use some it turned into a complete disaster.

Can't be too hard...it's only upside down