Gaming the system: Keeping your status/banks from abroad

[gaijinpunch]

Anyone have any experience with this? My tenure is coming to a close this year. I have many months to prepare, but for better or for worse, I will cease to be a fucked gaijin (is that possible?) and become a fucked citizen of my home country. I have PR, so that is not a problem. I plan on coming back once a year, even though I won't have to w/ a re-entry stamp. There are other issues.

1) How long does the stamp last under the new system? 5 years?
2) What is the easiest way to keep a "real" bank account. By real, I mean Shitibank or Shinsei. Yes, I know, they have their own problems... namely that in either of them any time there is a foreign wire, a notification is mailed out. I know with Shinsei, this cannot be changed and my guess is that it's to make sure the address on file is still valid.

I know that I can always register at a friends house, and have them shred any bank-related mails. Any other way? AFAIK, just a visa alone is not good enough to have a bank account. You need an address, and the banks generally only use what's on your FG card. They won't take a mail forwarding service.

Forwarding my mail to the post office is fine, but those have to be updated annually, in person. Sounds like I'd be opening myself up to a nightmare.

Feel free to throw in any other advice... sarcastic or not.

[wagyl]

Stamped reentry permit period is 5 years. Immigration are very very open about this if you care to look.

I've thought about the bank issue myself if ever I was out of the country for an extended period, and I really can't think of a better solution than a trusted friend and borrowing their address.

[matsuki]

I'm using Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ and they don't do any address verification once the account is established. I still need to set it up but apparently international wires can be made online as well. Very convenient if you're overseas!

[wagyl]

Choko in my experience banks, including Tokyo Mitsubishi Alphabet Soup, love nothing more than to ring you if you have a sizable deposit coming in from overseas, to ask what it is. Don't get me started on "we are the biggest bank evaaa, but you will need to do a journey of 300 Km return to have any entries put in your passbook because you don't live in Tokyo, Osaka or Nagoya." Or on "you have deposited this money from overseas denominated in JPY, so we will charge a fee to convert that JPY to JPY."

[gaijinpunch]

I'm using Tokyo Mitsubishi UFJ and they don't do any address verification once the account is established. I still need to set it up but apparently international wires can be made online as well. Very convenient if you're overseas!

The reason I've avoided furikomi'ing into UFJ, is that 1) they convert the currency to JPY right there at the rate (which is *probably* worse than Shinsei's, as everyone else's is) and 2, there's a 2000 yen tesuuryou just for receiving it. This was 2007 though, so perhaps things have changed. I'll go and check.

I needed to change the address on my houjin account and they wanted all kinds of forms. I'll check on the kojin.

EDIT: Basically what wagyl said. I don't think anyone is going to do foreign currency better than Shinsei. Their fees are cheap, and there's no fee to receive money. I can change it to JPY whenever I want. So far, the borrowing of the address is best. Harder to find someone in a rather static address in Tokyo though.

The other way is to do FX trades with (again, very trusted) people. I deposit into their US account, they into my JPY account. No flags raised*.

*some flags may be raised.

[matsuki]

Choko in my experience banks, including Tokyo Mitsubishi Alphabet Soup, love nothing more than to ring you if you have a sizable deposit coming in from overseas, to ask what it is. Don't get me started on "we are the biggest bank evaaa, but you will need to do a journey of 300 Km return to have any entries put in your passbook because you don't live in Tokyo, Osaka or Nagoya." Or on "you have deposited this money from overseas denominated in JPY, so we will charge a fee to convert that JPY to JPY."

I got one call but after that, they haven't bothered me. (though I have far more outgoing than incoming wires)

Passbook is gone in my case, with their online banking. (you can see up to 2 years back at any time)

My only real gripe with those fuckers is they are still stuck on the whole "you need to open an account at your local branch" BS. I think there is only 1 branch in all of Niigata hahahaha

[Wibble]

Stamped reentry permit period is 5 years. Immigration are very very open about this if you care to look.

I've thought about the bank issue myself if ever I was out of the country for an extended period, and I really can't think of a better solution than a trusted friend and borrowing their address.

Might be worth registering someone with control over your bank account in case they ask you to come in and stamp something while you're away or if you end up needing to do anything that can't be done by internet banking.

Anyone know if there a way of registering as a non-resident resident if out of the country, but retaining PR or is that a stupid question? Like citizens can do to avoid Japan tax, pension, health insurance etc. or is this automatically ok if you can provide evidence of travel dates and take yourself off a juminhyo?

[GomiGirl]

No fees to receive money at shinsei? Who gets this? I get regular international deposits into my shinsei and am charged ¥2,500 a time. I would like to avoid this if possible.


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[Wage Slave]

Odd. I haven't been charged a single Yen over a fair number of transfers into Shinsei. I am sending the money in Yen via World First if that makes any difference. They don't charge any fee for sending it either if it is 5,000 GBP or more's worth of Yen.

[Samurai_Jerk]

No fees to receive money at shinsei? Who gets this? I get regular international deposits into my shinsei and am charged ¥2,500 a time. I would like to avoid this if possible.


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I've never been charged a fee by Shinsei for receiving an overseas transfer either.

[GomiGirl]

Even if that wire is originally sent in a currency other than yen?

Methinks I need to kick up a stink and get those fees refunded.


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[matsuki]

...and methinks I need to look into Shinsei for a new account. (or were they the one that takes US nationals SSN and all that shit like Citibank?)

[wagyl]

Choko in my experience banks, including Tokyo Mitsubishi Alphabet Soup, love nothing more than to ring you if you have a sizable deposit coming in from overseas, to ask what it is. Don't get me started on "we are the biggest bank evaaa, but you will need to do a journey of 300 Km return to have any entries put in your passbook because you don't live in Tokyo, Osaka or Nagoya." Or on "you have deposited this money from overseas denominated in JPY, so we will charge a fee to convert that JPY to JPY."

I got one call but after that, they haven't bothered me. (though I have far more outgoing than incoming wires)

Passbook is gone in my case, with their online banking. (you can see up to 2 years back at any time)

My only real gripe with those fuckers is they are still stuck on the whole "you need to open an account at your local branch" BS. I think there is only 1 branch in all of Niigata hahahaha

I don't do online banking within Japan, but it may pay to check that they don't charge you for posting your statement to you if you haven't updated the entries in your passbook after a certain period. And yes, there is one branch in Niigata city. And one in Maebashi. That is the grand total in all of Niigata, Nagano and Gunma perfectures. Nice going, guys.

[Samurai_Jerk]

...and methinks I need to look into Shinsei for a new account. (or were they the one that takes US nationals SSN and all that shit like Citibank?)

Shinsei didn't do that when I opened an account but that was more than 8 years ago so thing may have changed. However, now that you mention, it when I've moved they asked for a photocopy of my ARC and always told me black out the nationality before sending it. I always assumed that was related to not asking for koseki or because of the Zainichi Koreans but maybe it's also a way to avoid having collect SSNs.

As much as I hate Shitty Bank, I can't blame them for asking. I'm sure Uncle Sam has a gun to their head. Anyway, now that the National Tax Agency is sharing info with the IRS, it doesn't make much difference anyway.

[gaijinpunch]

Even if that wire is originally sent in a currency other than yen?

Methinks I need to kick up a stink and get those fees refunded.


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Are they sending it into a USD account? Actually, I think your Shinsei account has only one account number (where as Shitibank gives you an account number for yen, and one for foreign currency... because that makes sense. Like having a home email address and a keitai email address). I've been sending USD -> USD for years and never got charged once.

Anyone know if there a way of registering as a non-resident resident if out of the country, but retaining PR or is that a stupid question? Like citizens can do to avoid Japan tax, pension, health insurance etc. or is this automatically ok if you can provide evidence of travel dates and take yourself off a juminhyo?

You essentially do this with a re-entry stamp if over 1 year, and automatically if under a year (and you keep your card). Go to your kuyakusho and tell them you're going on a business trip temporarily, but for an undetermined amount of time and wish to be taken off the books. Boom, you're done. (Obviously, it takes a few hours and you have to hit a few desks). You will be removed from NHS and you won't be responsible for any ku-related taxes. However, if you DO get paid in Japan as a non-resident, the tax is actually higher. I'm not sure, but I think it's the metropolitan tax bracket that goes through the fucking roof in this case. You know, b/c that makes sense. I got hit with this late last year.

For the record, you do need to leave the cuntry at some point if you're planning to "rework" your taxes. When you "come back" as a resident, it happens the moment you land (retroactively), and they check your passport. My residency status was in limbo last year, and I needed to make sure I wasn't going to get dinged twice for a bunch of shit so I became a non-resident PR holder on an extended business trip. I didn't go back to the ward office until I was on Japanese soil for a good 2 more months, as it wasn't clear if I was going to be here. Turned out I was, and I went in November, but they marked me as a resident from September.

As much as I hate Shitty Bank, I can't blame them for asking. I'm sure Uncle Sam has a gun to their head. Anyway, now that the National Tax Agency is sharing info with the IRS, it doesn't make much difference anyway.

I think Shitibank was getting SSN's here long before the US government bought them out. Funny... the Japanese government caned them a few years before that as well, right? They deserve it for such a shitty web layout and counter-intuitive money changing interface.

Citibank: American bank run by Japanese
Shinsei: Japanese bank run by Americans

[GomiGirl]

Even if that wire is originally sent in a currency other than yen?

Methinks I need to kick up a stink and get those fees refunded.


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Are they sending it into a USD account? Actually, I think your Shinsei account has only one account number (where as Shitibank gives you an account number for yen, and one for foreign currency... because that makes sense. Like having a home email address and a keitai email address). I've been sending USD -> USD for years and never got charged once.

Update - I called Shinsei and they indeed to not charge for overseas deposits. It appears that my client is sending via an intermediary bank that is charging the fees. I am looking into this further. But I do not know much about international banking - does the client HAVE to use one? Why would they not be able to send directly to Shinsei. They are sending YEN from Dublin.

If there is no way around this, I might get them to send to my PayPal account and then just deposit from there. I already have a business account set up with PayPal and so I can just send the money once a month when I need it.

[wagyl]

Update - I called Shinsei and they indeed to not charge for overseas deposits. It appears that my client is sending via an intermediary bank that is charging the fees. I am looking into this further. But I do not know much about international banking - does the client HAVE to use one? Why would they not be able to send directly to Shinsei. They are sending YEN from Dublin.

If there is no way around this, I might get them to send to my PayPal account and then just deposit from there. I already have a business account set up with PayPal and so I can just send the money once a month when I need it.

Choice of intermediary bank is made by the sender's bank. That is, by the bank, not by the sender. I have had this issue numerous times, and even when sending money to myself, have not been able to control this process. Real life example: I have an account with Sumitomo Mitsui (who at least have a branch tolerably nearby). Of the list of intermediary banks the foreign bank where I have my account uses, Sumitomo Mitui is one of a number of Japanese banks. I seek to specify that they use Sumitomo Mitui and explain the reasons why. Apparently an officer in a branch in another city can receive a notation of my wishes and my logical reasons and totally ignore them. On repeated occasions. No skin off their noses, 4000 JPY skim off my money. Maybe it has something to do with the balance the sending bank holds with the corresponding bank, but it is mighty frustrating to the users.

I am desperately waiting for these people to support JPY.

If your sender has an account with a different Irish bank, maybe that will have a direct link with Shinsei. It may be worth a try.

[yanpa]

Citibank: American bank run by Japanese
Shinsei: Japanese bank run by Americans

Offtopic random banking-related memory... When I first arrived here I needed money fast for an apartment deposit, turned out the easiest and possibly cheapest way of doing it was withdrawing bushels of yen from my German Citibank account at a Citibank ATM, going 50 metres down the street to Shinsei and shoving it in the ATM there.

Meanwhile I see the Shinsei ATMs at various Tokyo Metro stations are gradually disappearing and in some cases being replaced by 7/11 ones.

[matsuki]

I think Shitibank was getting SSN's here long before the US government bought them out. Funny... the Japanese government caned them a few years before that as well, right? They deserve it for such a shitty web layout and counter-intuitive money changing interface.

Citibank: American bank run by Japanese
Shinsei: Japanese bank run by Americans

LOL, well keep in mind at one point in time, Citibank was the pinnacle of Japanese bank service for FG. I jumped ship as soon as the J-banks sort of caught up with them in some aspects and passed them in others...but as the wagman confirmed, even the largest J-bank is still running on the shimaguni, inaka-gun mentality.

[Yokohammer]

... shimaguni, inaka-gun ...

Hey! That's my address!

[Samurai_Jerk]

As much as I hate Shitty Bank, I can't blame them for asking. I'm sure Uncle Sam has a gun to their head. Anyway, now that the National Tax Agency is sharing info with the IRS, it doesn't make much difference anyway.

I think Shitibank was getting SSN's here long before the US government bought them out. Funny... the Japanese government caned them a few years before that as well, right? They deserve it for such a shitty web layout and counter-intuitive money changing interface.

Citibank: American bank run by Japanese
Shinsei: Japanese bank run by Americans

The US government's riding of the ass of American financial institutions is nothing new. That's why AIG Japan and (BOA) Merrill Lynch Japan don't accept Americans for a lot of their investment vehicles.

[wagyl]

The US government's riding of the ass of American financial institutions is nothing new. That's why AIG Japan and (BOA) Merrill Lynch Japan don't accept Americans for a lot of their investment vehicles.

Apparently they are starting to ride the arse of non American financial institutions, too. I haven't heard anything about Japan, but I have heard about conditions in Europe: some Swiss banks are forcibly closing bank accounts of US Passport holders, and apparently not a single bank in the Czech republic will let you keep your bank account if you have US citizenship, which gets kind of hard when it is almost impossible to pay your electricity bill except by transfer from a bank account. The compliance requirements are just so onerous that your custom is not worth the effort, far easier to just prove that they have no US customers.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The US government's riding of the ass of American financial institutions is nothing new. That's why AIG Japan and (BOA) Merrill Lynch Japan don't accept Americans for a lot of their investment vehicles.

Apparently they are starting to ride the arse of non American financial institutions, too. I haven't heard anything about Japan, but I have heard about conditions in Europe: some Swiss banks are forcibly closing bank accounts of US Passport holders, and apparently not a single bank in the Czech republic will let you keep your bank account if you have US citizenship, which gets kind of hard when it is almost impossible to pay your electricity bill except by transfer from a bank account. The compliance requirements are just so onerous that your custom is not worth the effort, far easier to just prove that they have no US customers.

I've heard of some countries not allowing non-resident Americans to open bank accounts anymore but not being able to open one if you're a resident would be a real PITA. Every year being an American abroad is becoming more burdensome.

[wagyl]

Every year being an American abroad is becoming more burdensome.

Yanqui go home
This time the one writing the graffiti is your own government.

[Coligny]

Since you are taxed while living oversea, do you also have access to the affordable care act thing ?

[gaijinpunch]

Since you are taxed while living oversea, do you also have access to the affordable care act thing ?

Of course not! Well, I doubt it, anyway. You really need international coverage, and that's a pretty specialized thing in America, where less than 10% of the population even has a passport, and only 22% actually know there are other landmasses on the other sides of the Atlantic & Pacific.