Environmentalists pursue Japan's whalers

[Russell]

If I am honest, I think I have a bigger issue with the dishonesty about the rationale behind the hunt, a dishonesty begun to get around a decision for a moratorium by a body which Japan is a member of, a decision made despite Japan trying to butter up voter nations with aid offers: I have a bigger issue with that dishonesty than I do with the hunt itself.

THIS!

[Coligny]

It's toats in line with their arrogant superiority complexe. The perpetual toddler level of understanding and rationnalisation. I see it, I want it, so it's mine.

The "we japanese" are the safest nation, the "we japanese" respect the environment... The "we japanese" have the most precise language so it should become universal. If, they do it, have it then it's right, end of the story. And if you disagree, their USSA daddy will beat you to a pulp...

The standard lack of humble pie, the "we didn't start the war", the "our war criminals are heroes" nobody ever told them to STFU and finish their vegetables... Like that diplomat in front of a UN panel going all "shut up, shad up" when called on his bullshit by laugh and giggles from the other attendants... These guys want to be members of the permanent UN security council despite being totally irrelevant...

[legion]

“Japan’s whaling is based on scientific reasons, while counterarguments by anti-whaling groups are emotional, saying they are against the hunts because whales are cute or smart,” said Shunichi Suzuki, a Lower House lawmaker of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party.

Thus proving that lower house lawmakers are neither cute nor smart.

Holy freakin' wow ... I mean, just wow. How unbelievably immature an short-sighted. Lawmakers? I would have thought someone so erudite as a lawmaker might actually take the time to check facts before opening their mouths.

"... because whales are cute or smart ..." oh fer fuck's sake ...

almost ranks as high as "I spent 5 oku yen on a lucky rake" for blatant fucking stupidity

Whaling is based on scientific reasons, that's why we are eating it and pretending we like it. What's next "No pants Kujira sashimi" ?

[Russell]

Fortunately, there are some enlightened people in Japan too...

[kurogane]

Honestly, what sort of logic filters are missing when a journalist prints such dumb quotes that hurt the point they are trying to make.

I don't follow ya. The Japan Times is against the whale hunt anyways, and the writer of that article seemed to be presenting quotes that represented the Other Side of the issue. Or did you mean that the speakers were cutting their own logical hamstrings there? At any rate, the journalist did note that they were LDP members, so that 8 year old schoolyard logic sounds rather faithful to the type.

"... because whales are cute or smart ..." oh fer fuck's sake ...

That is the crux of this circle jerk biscuit, after all. Any other reasons behind the opposition??? I have never heard any, and the reasonable and decent protestors against the whale and dolphin hunts are quite forthright about it, to their credit: in short, we don't think you should eat them because they're special. Hard to disagree with that, even if one is more opposed to the fat white finger waggers than a few poor dolphins being axed, as I am.

To be realistic about the statements of parliamentarians, you must understand that they are made to appeal to the voting public. I don't see what thay has to do with facts. It is a sad state of affairs, but I am a realist. Also, a depressingly large proportion of the reasons stated by activists against the whale hunt is that whales are cute (or at least have a special status as mammals), or that whales have intelligence. That, too is a sad state of affairs..

Yes to all that, and might I suggest this is all a very cleverly choreographed Abe Boogie Party, given the loophole in the recent ICJ ruling (the hunt as it was was not scientific, but scientific research itself is not disallowed). He's using his manju munching Plebby Boys as an outlet and a screen to push a future option to resume the hunt based on popular support for cultural preservation and autonomy. Not uncleverly, I might add.

As for the reasons to oppose the hunt, the only coherent arguments against the hunt are that they are too special to be lunch. I agree, but that means it's a value judgement about what is and is not food. IOW, a bunch of Meddling Class white people that know better telling Brownie how to live. That is all it's ever been, and that remains its only defensible form. And that is precisely the reason so many Japanese get so angry about it even though they don't eat whale, don't want to eat whale, and have no real plans to start.

The Meddling Class opposition to the cetacean harvest is at least ethnocentric, but usually just racist. But the Meddling Class is so fundamentally racist that only a very few of them can see it, and even they think that White Right trumps Brown choice.

By biggest issue is the

Japan’s whaling is based on scientific reasons

bit. ........... If I am honest, I think I have a bigger issue with the dishonesty about the rationale behind the hunt, a dishonesty begun to get around a decision for a moratorium by a body which Japan is a member of, a decision made despite Japan trying to butter up voter nations with aid offers: I have a bigger issue with that dishonesty than I do with the hunt itself.

Beri Beri eloquent, that. That is the issue that effectively guts any defence or rationale for the hunt, and especially a hunt in international waters. I will go one further and state that I do not oppose the dolphin hunt but the mocking mendacity of the southern whale hunt, conducted in the backyards of its allies and trade partners, made them look every bit like the people that brought you Pearl Harbor. Australia and NZ were very clever to point out that science or no, Japan was being a bad neighbour. That one hit home, I thinks.


BTW, thanks to Coligny and Wage Slave on that advice about buying stuff from Rakuten. Good point about returns policy, too. I have had some real headaches over the years with that.

[Russell]

As for the reasons to oppose the hunt, the only coherent arguments against the hunt are that they are too special to be lunch. I agree, but that means it's a value judgement about what is and is not food. IOW, a bunch of Meddling Class white people that know better telling Brownie how to live. That is all it's ever been, and that remains its only defensible form. And that is precisely the reason so many Japanese get so angry about it even though they don't eat whale, don't want to eat whale, and have no real plans to start.

Don't know.

You think Japanese would be more accepting to the views of the "Negros against Whaling" or the "Chinese for Cetaceans"?!?

[Russell]

Lawmakers demand gov't 'redesign' whaling program

Japanese lawmakers on Wednesday demanded the government redesign its “research” whaling program to circumvent an international court ruling that described the program as a commercial hunt dressed up as science.

The 40-strong fisheries committee, made up of a cross-section of members of the lower house, unanimously passed a resolution urging the administration study “all sorts of options, including walking out of the (international whaling) convention”.

It said the ruling earlier this month by the International Court of Justice was “truly regrettable” but “does not necessarily prevent Japan’s whaling, which is a unique tradition and culture”.

The panel demanded the government find a way to continue the research operation “so as to play a responsible role as the only country in the world with a scientific approach”.

The parliamentarians also demanded the government swiftly draw up a plan to replace the banned Antarctic whaling operation and fully prepare for a new program while circulating “whale meat—a by-product of research whaling—appropriately as before”.

Although it is a signatory to the International Whaling Convention (IWC), which bans the commercial hunting of the mammals, Japan has used a loophole that allows for “lethal research”.

It said it was perfectly proper for people to consume the meat that was the inevitable by-product of the killing.

Environmentalists have maintained the science is a ruse. Australia hauled Japan before the ICJ in The Hague over its program.

Judges there ruled 12-4 in Canberra’s favor and Tokyo said it was calling the 2014-15 hunt off.

But legal papers submitted in the United States reportedly showed the Institute for Cetacean Research, the body in Japan that carries out the whaling program, intends to return to the Southern Ocean the following year with a redesigned scheme.

Japan on Monday insisted it had made no decision on whether to resume its Antarctic whaling.

Tokyo is also studying whether it should go ahead with another research whaling program in the northwestern Pacific, to which the fleet was originally scheduled to sail later this month.

This hunt, which is not affected by the court ruling, operates two excursions a year, in coastal waters and offshore, from early summer through autumn.

Amid the deliberation, the whaling industry invited lawmakers to an annual buffet of all manner of whale meat on Tuesday, including sashimi.

Takashi Tanuma, a member of the Japan Restoration Party, tweeted from there: “(The whaling industry) argue the international ruling only applies to the Southern Ocean program, but the government may expand it to operations in other regions, which must not be accepted.”

Link

LOL

[matsuki]

By biggest issue is the

Japan’s whaling is based on scientific reasons

bit. This is pretty much harpooned into the minds of the public here, and it takes a bit of explaining before people come around to see that you don't need to kill, for example, ants, to study them scientifically, and the same goes for whales. If I am honest, I think I have a bigger issue with the dishonesty about the rationale behind the hunt, a dishonesty begun to get around a decision for a moratorium by a body which Japan is a member of, a decision made despite Japan trying to butter up voter nations with aid offers: I have a bigger issue with that dishonesty than I do with the hunt itself.

...but but Unit 731 was scientific research!! They needed to kill, poison, maim, etc. to study!! We are so much better off today thanks to those contributions!!

[Russell]

Yeah, and they are the only country in the world with a scientific approach!!!

[wagyl]

Lawmakers demand gov't 'redesign' whaling program

Japanese lawmakers on Wednesday demanded the government redesign its “research” whaling program to circumvent an international court ruling that described the program as a commercial hunt dressed up as science.

The 40-strong fisheries committee, made up of a cross-section of members of the lower house, unanimously passed a resolution urging the administration study “all sorts of options, including walking out of the (international whaling) convention”.

Yeah, because that worked so well when they did it at the League of Nations.

[Samurai_Jerk]

If I am honest, I think I have a bigger issue with the dishonesty about the rationale behind the hunt, a dishonesty begun to get around a decision for a moratorium by a body which Japan is a member of, a decision made despite Japan trying to butter up voter nations with aid offers: I have a bigger issue with that dishonesty than I do with the hunt itself.

THIS!

That's also exactly how I feel. I don't have a problem with whaling as long as it's being conducted responsibly (whether it is or not is another argument) but I do have a problem with the bullshit scientific research claim and tax yen being spent to subsidize it. Red herrings about kangaroo hunts or anthropomorphism of whales should be irrelevant but as wagyl pointed out they tend to play well with the public. That's why politicians everywhere use this type of logical fallacy time and again.

[matsuki]

Redesign to circumvent the international court ruling....

This case by case, loophole, shimaguni mentality on the global scale is bound to end up with some Japanese whaling ships on the bottom of the sea if they keep at it.

[kurogane]

If I am honest, I think I have a bigger issue with the dishonesty about the rationale behind the hunt, ...........

THIS!

That's also exactly how I feel. ..............I do have a problem with the bullshit scientific research claim and tax yen being spent to subsidize it. Red herrings about kangaroo hunts or anthropomorphism of whales should be irrelevant but as wagyl pointed out they tend to play well with the public. That's why politicians everywhere use this type of logical fallacy time and again.

Actually, that waste of tax money aspect could prove very useful politically. Much more than accusations of lying and deceipt, which only end up in 8 year old schoolyard exchanges. It is very strange that efforts to provide people with a meat they supposedly cherish should require subsidies to do so (though Our Meat Farms get similar tax candy). Good point on the political play going on as well. It's heating up to be a real schoolyard mudfight. I think Abe has passed the mike off to the Plebs so he can step back, read the air and play the cool headed statesman. He certainly is more cleverer than last time when he quit over a sick tummy.

Anyways, how is the anthropomorphism a red herring? Serious question . To my mind, that is the only basis of the opposition to whale hunting in general that even withstands scrutiny, though hats off to the Australian legal team for some clever legal maneuvers. They pulled that off well.

Also, this just came to mind: anybody else getting a whiff of Showa Nostalgia in the first hand accounts and quotes? I would be willing to bet that for a surprising number of people over 45 or so, whale meat was the first type of meat they enjoyed with any regularity (school lunches, etc.), and Japanese really do like their meat when they can get at it. The fact that nobody should eat whale meat at all (mercury!!??? ) really seems to be overlooked in all accounts. I couldn't get the taste of old thermometer out of my head for 3 days when I macho'ed up and ate it.

In closing, I think we can all hope that if renewed efforts do lead to any ships being sunk we can all hope it will be ones potentially carrying a walrus shaped Canadian enviro-spazz, even though he doesn't have the spine to ride one that might be put in such danger. That's what his seemingly endless supply of young emotards are for, after all.

Anybody know why Japan wouldn't give up on the international waters and just restrict the hunt to its own zone? Perhaps penguin fed Minkee Whale is the Kobe Beef of sea pigs?

[Mike Oxlong]

Anybody know why Japan wouldn't give up on the international waters and just restrict the hunt to its own zone? Perhaps penguin fed Minkee Whale is the Kobe Beef of sea pigs?

Eco-tourism? Whale watching is a biz too. Poachers in wildlife sanctuaries in Africa get shot, same rulez in the Southern Ocean Sanctuaries.

[kurogane]

Is whale harassment a big tourist pull in Japanese waters? I could see how that would pose barriers to any domestic waters whale hunt. Here in BC it's a huge business. It would be neat if we could shoot those fuckers. With a touch of imagination, I would think they could combine non-lethal bullying with some sort of whale hunt observation experience. That would be sure to instill a love of tradition in the kids and the OLs.

I saw a pack of Killer Whales bite a big baleen whale to pieces off the Queen Charlottes as a kid. It was sort of like watching someone pull pork off a live, squirming pig. Yuck. Certainly cured me of any future taste for whale.

So, anyways, given the pain in the neck of any whale hunting in international waters, any other good reasons not to restrict it all to Japanese waters, like with the dolphin hunt? At that point any protest becomes dependent on Japanese courtesy and hospitality (and immigration regs), like the shockingly decent treatment all those SSCS land whales get in Taiji. Surely the Taiji area has a home centre that sell those nice little kiddy sized baseball bats? Those would be perfect for a Fat White Protestor Orienation Session, MYHOMO.


PS Russell,

Buwahahahaha. Maybe we could sign up SinterKlaas' little black buddy as spokesperson for that new niche lobby group? Hard to imagine any Chinese group doing anything but putting on their bibs and salivating. It does raise a question, though: given the murderous history of Whites, what in gawd's name makes that ilk think it's still okay to meddle? Is it the high fructose diet? I still insist their presumptuous imperialisms are more offensive than any trivial harvest of a non-endangered species, however disingenuous the reasons given for the latter.

And No, I don't hate My Own; I just hate all shitholes Like That regardless of race, creed, or topic.　It could be a fun excuse to go transethnic, though. I'd have to revamp my entire wardrobe, but it could be fun.

[matsuki]

Perhaps penguin fed Minkee Whale is the Kobe Beef of sea pigs?

Less mercury?

[kurogane]

Aaaaah, you might be onto something there. It turns out they're baleen whales anyways. I thought they were more like big dolphins; not so.

So, anyways, who da fuck eats anything that might have mercury in it???? They do claim it's a nice slow way to go, but I can't even enjoy my tuna anymore. OTOH, it makes it really easy to not eat sushi much, and since sushi has always sort of creeped me out anyways, I get to eat more tempura.

BTW, tuna Tempura is magical. No, really.

Anybody know what types of tuna are less mercury blessed? I tried looking it up but it was toats confoozling. I assume proper Maguro and Toro are slow, raw death on a wooden plate.

[Russell]

Kurogane, as to the reasons Japanese insist on their right to whale all over the world, I read somewhere that they fear for their fishing rights in general.

Losing the right to whale may be the first step in their minds to give in to demands from outside to limit their catches of fish (Tuna?) more in general.

Given the importance of fish in the Japanese menu, I understand where they want to go, but if certain species are on their way of extinction they will have to give in anyway. Wasn't it in the news recently that they voluntarily reduced their catches of Tuna?

Dunno why they think their insistence on whaling is helpful in this case...

[Yokohammer]

So basically, they have no intention of abiding by the ruling ...

Whaling to be pared, not halted

The government announced Friday it will continue seasonal “research whaling” in both the Northwest Pacific and the Antarctic Ocean but reduce the catch, after the International Court of Justice in The Hague ordered Japan to stop whaling in the Antarctic.

I don't give a damn about them whaling in Japanese waters, but I do give a damn ... several large economy-size damns ... about them whaling in the Antarctic. This bull-headed inability to function in harmony with the international community is just going to isolate them even further.

Apparently the spirit of the law only matters when it suits them. Otherwise taking advantage of technical loopholes is SOP. Historical examples abound ... like when Koizumi's Yasukuni visits were deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court, and he simply went "as a private citizen" through a different entrance (which of course is a farce when you're the leader of the country). Complete and utter contempt for the spirit of the law while using wildly distorted interpretations of the letter of the law to suit their own purposes. They're not going to gain any respect for that kind of uncivilised effrontery.

Tradition, culture ... bullshit. Here's the truth of the matter, right here:

“If the research program is discontinued, our company will no doubt go bankrupt this year,” Minoru Ito, president of firm in the tsunami-hit city of Ishinomaki, Miyagi Prefecture, said by telephone.

That's all it is.

[Russell]

Yeah, but if the research program is continued, it will eventually bankrupt the country.

I predict a big backlash internationally against Japan if they go on in this hard-headed way.

[Yokohammer]

Yeah, but if the research program is continued, it will eventually bankrupt the country.

Slight correction: it will be one of many wasteful programs that might eventually contribute to the country's bankruptcy. But yeah, it's incredibly shortsighted and selfish in the "Me! Now!" sense.

I predict a big backlash internationally against Japan if they go on in this hard-headed way.

I think that's so obvious it doesn't even fall into the "prediction" category. It's more of a foregone conclusion. More shortsightedness.

[Russell]

What surprises me is that those small companies have so much leverage over Japanese ministries, and thus over the country's policies.

Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[Wage Slave]

Such a missed opportunity. Continuing to pour money into the pockets of a few people, catching and processing a significant number of whales at enormous cost, to be put into storage because the demand doesn't exist. Meanwhile, surely, there are a huge number of small fishing enterprises and communities still devastated by 2011. How is it possibly better to spend the money on a few whaling companies producing so little of any value to anyone and with such limited prospects in the future?

For the few people who want to eat whale there is plenty of meat in storage and by all means when that starts to run short go and catch a few in your own backyard to satisfy what little demand there is. And just ignore Sea Shepherd.

[Coligny]

Apparently the spirit of the law only matters when it suits them. Otherwise taking advantage of technical loopholes is SOP. Historical examples abound ... like when Koizumi's Yasukuni visits were deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court, and he simply went

Just living this one here...

image.jpg

Add AV8B, Yakovlev 38 or Lockheed-Yakovlev F35 (Yak 41/141 but don't tell anyone, the merkins are pissed that their first Vtol was English and second one was Russian) and you got one hell of a constitutional breach too...

[Yokohammer]

Just living this one here...

image.jpg

Add AV8B, Yakovlev 38 or Lockheed-Yakovlev F35 (Yak 41/141 but don't tell anyone, the merkins are pissed that their first Vtol was English and second one was Russian) and you got one hell of a constitutional breach too...

I hope you're not suggesting that it's OK if the other guys are doing it too. You can excuse anything with that line of logic.

"Genocide? Sure! It happens in other countries, so why not?"

~ Tapatalking ~

[Coligny]

Just living this one here...

image.jpg

Add AV8B, Yakovlev 38 or Lockheed-Yakovlev F35 (Yak 41/141 but don't tell anyone, the merkins are pissed that their first Vtol was English and second one was Russian) and you got one hell of a constitutional breach too...

I hope you're not suggesting that it's OK if the other guys are doing it too. You can excuse anything with that line of logic.

"Genocide? Sure! It happens in other countries, so why not?"

~ Tapatalking ~

I don't get whut you missunderstood or what you mean by other !?
It's a japanese Hyuga class.... Destroyer of the JMSDF... Quite a flat deck destroyer... So flat decked that you might even call it an helicopter carrier... If you put VTOL planes on it, it becomes what's called an attack aircraft carrier...
Which is a weapon category strictly forbidden under the Japanese current constitution. But call it a destroyer... Then it's all good...

[Yokohammer]

I don't get whut you missunderstood or what you mean by other !?
It's a japanese Hyuga class.... Destroyer of the JMSDF... Quite a flat deck destroyer... So flat decked that you might even call it an helicopter carrier... If you put VTOL planes on it, it becomes what's called an attack aircraft carrier...
Which is a weapon category strictly forbidden under the Japanese current constitution. But call it a destroyer... Then it's all good...

OK. My bad. Pardonnez meself.

Here's why: I saw "Merkins" closely followed by "unconstitutional," so I assumed you were talking about thems and that constitution (but I wasn't entirely sure which is why I said "I hope you're not ...")..

"Merkins" and "unconstitutional" in the same sentence wouldn't be much of a surprise, so forgive me for the mistake.

[Coligny]

Got'ch'ya... My fun of them merkins was aboot the fact that their all touted new shiny F35 toy is based on Russian cold war leftover itself based on the total failure that was the Yak 38.

This, the RAH66, the V22 qwirkz, the Bradley, the F18 now replacing the F16 while it lost the contract against it few decades earlier, their Littoral Combat Ship program fiasco the seawolf class submarines... seems they can't get anything done these days.

hugz

[legion]

Discussed this with some Japanese buddies this afternoon, all oyajis, general consensus, whale meat is not oishii, but maguro is.

Basically if they cave on the sea pigs the next step is the sea chickens.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Which is a weapon category strictly forbidden under the Japanese current constitution.

ALL weapons are forbidden under Japan's current constitution. They interpret their constitution the same way they interpret their history.