He was robbed! (Matsui not Rookie of the Yr)

[Taro Toporific]

Rookie award: a vote and a statement
AP Sports , 11/10/2003
For those who think Rookie of the Year honors ought to go to a player still packing his first shaving kit, rather than a grizzled veteran from Japan, youth and justice have been served.
Kansas City shortstop Angel Berroa, 25, edged New York Yankees' outfielder Hideki Matsui, a star for 10 years in Japan, for the AL award Monday in a vote that was as much a statement as an appraisal of their seasons.
"I guess I just looked too old for a rookie," Matsui said.
He does, actually, look older than his 29 years, but it's his long, distinguished career in Japan, where he won three MVPs, that rankles some voters.

[kamome]

Yeah, Ichiro shouldn't have won either. Those guys are not rookies, plain and simple.

[AssKissinger]

I would've voted for Matsui but I wouldn't exactly say he was robbed. At .287 they had the same batting average for the regular season. Matsui pounded in about 30 more RBI's but the Yankees were getting on base more than the Royals. Also, Berroa is a shortstop, a more demanding fielding position than playing in the outfield for sure. Nomo won the Rookie of the Year award. That year I thought Chipper Jones deserved it for the same reason I would have voted for Matsui. He delivered in the World Series. The Braves actually won it that year with Chipper but Matsui definitely delivered in the Fall Classic. I guess it's easy for Godzilla to be gracious.

Dollar for dollar, Berroa, working on a $302,000 salary, was the better bargain by far. Matsui, the $6 million "Godzilla" who hit .334 with 50 home runs and 107 RBIs the year before in Japan, didn't come close to matching that home run total. But he impressed with savvy hitting in strategic situations.

BTW, WTF is with America's baseball squad not qualifying for the Olympics? Pathetic.

[stuckinkysuhu]

Matsui should have won given that he was on the ballot.

However, I agree with some of the people interviewed in the article: he shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. I think that as more and more players make the jump to the MLB from overseas, the MLB should look into redefining what a rookie is.

[cstaylor]

I would've voted for Matsui but I
BTW, WTF is with America's baseball squad not qualifying for the Olympics? Pathetic.

AFAIK, none of them were Major League professionals.

[leathernick]

Matsui should have won given that he was on the ballot.
However, I agree with some of the people interviewed in the article: he shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. I think that as more and more players make the jump to the MLB from overseas, the MLB should look into redefining what a rookie is.

should this mean that grizzled minor leaguers should be denied a ballot for ROTY? After all, they are professional ballplayers as well. I don't think pro ball players from other countries should be excluded from the ballots. I mean, it is their 1st year in the MLB.

[AssKissinger]

I agree with you Nick.

AFAIK, none of them were Major League professionals.

Here's a rundown on America's latest Olympic failure. http://sports.yahoo.com/oly/news?slug=ap-usbaseballeliminated&prov=ap&type=lgns

Manager Frank Robinson and his U.S. squad of mostly minor leaguers were beaten at their own game, falling to Mexico 2-1 Friday -- a loss that eliminated the gold-medal champions from a qualifying tournament... ``It's a shock and a disgrace that the Americans won't be represented in the Olympics,'' said Lasorda, who managed the 2000 U.S. team to the gold in Sydney.

``Baseball is America's game,'' he said. ``It doesn't belong to the Japanese or the Cubans or the Koreans or the Italians. This is sad, very sad.''

That's such bullshit to say baseball doesn't belong to the Japanese. They work harder at it. Their fans are more loyal. Everytime we send a major league team to the Tokyo Dome they get spanked. Japanese baseball is high quality. The fielding on average is better and it's more strategic.

[leathernick]

i think fat assed lasorta meant baseball WAS america's game. Now it belong to rich money-grubbing players AND owners who can give a rat's behind about "the game".

[AssKissinger]

i think fat assed lasorta meant baseball WAS america's game. Now it belong to rich money-grubbing players AND owners who can give a rat's behind about "the game".

Again, I agree with you but I think you'd have to go way back to find a time when it wasn't all about the money. Do you think the financial ethics of the game has changed for the worse since the 70's?

[kamome]

Steinbrenner's sour grapes

"This year's voting farce, where the appropriate qualifications for the award were blatantly ignored, clearly demonstrates unfairness to first-year players from Japan. And that must be stopped."

Steinbrenner's statement did not address the fact that Berroa also was excluded from two of the 28 ballots.

[leathernick]

I can understand why he didn't get that many votes, but damn, talk about no respect.

Earlier this week, Matsui was beaten by Kansas City shortstop Angel Berroa in voting for American League Rookie of the Year. Yankees owner George Steinbrenner criticized two voters who left Matsui off their ballots -- the two voters said they didn't think veterans of the Japanese major leagues should be eligible.

[AssKissinger]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Hideki Matsui didn't make the Topps All-Rookie Team, either.

The Japanese outfielder who starred for the New York Yankees was beaten out by Tampa Bay's Rocco Baldelli, Cleveland's Jody Gerut and Milwaukee's Scott Podsednik in voting announced Friday.

All those guys have comparable stats but none of them homered in the World Series. Maybe it's racism, language barrier but I suspect a lot of it boils down to money and exposure. Matsui clocked in a cool six million this year. These other players made 5-10% of that. The truth is Matsui did not hit six million dollars worth of home runs this year, especially if you're focusing on the regular season.

[GuyJean]

That's such bullshit to say baseball doesn't belong to the Japanese.

I agree that it sounds assholish, but I think it's being misperceived. It's America's sport because it was created there, and it's sad that the US couldn't make the Olympics at their own game.

They work harder at it.

I agree, but do they enjoy playing? Practice usually looks like a military camp to me.. BTW, the Little League World Series is rarely won by the US.

Their fans are more loyal.

Sort of agree.. But you know what they say]Everytime we send a major league team to the Tokyo Dome they get spanked.[/quote]
You mean in the exhibition games? They don't count.. The MLB-gers are too busy chasing J-tail and going to soaplands. They're on vacation making bank.

Japanese baseball is high quality. The fielding on average is better and it's more strategic.

Totally disagree. Did you see the Tiger's outfielders in the Japan Series? How many times must a ball be hit over their heads before they actually move back?.. Reminded me of flopping carp (with herpes) out of water.

I can't take Japanese baseball seriously until they eliminate the tie, stop driving the pitchers to the mound in a golf cart, and give home run hitters high-fives instead of stuffed animals.. Just my two cents.

GJ

[cstaylor]

Anyone catch it last night? They showed Matsui in his rookie uniform with the rest of the Yankee rookies... he was dressed as a pimp, and the rest of the rookies were dressed as hookers.

[GuyJean]

Anyone catch it last night? They showed Matsui in his rookie uniform with the rest of the Yankee rookies... he was dressed as a pimp, and the rest of the rookies were dressed as hookers.

I saw it! It was funny.. Especially when he stumbled and fell down standing in the fish-bowl high-heeled boots.. He looked good though!

I think the ROTY award should be re-evaluated. When a doctor from one hospital transfers to another, is he considered a rookie doctor?

These guys played baseball in a 'professional' league for more than 5 years.. They are not true rookies.

GJ

[kamome]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Hideki Matsui didn't make the Topps All-Rookie Team, either.

The Japanese outfielder who starred for the New York Yankees was beaten out by Tampa Bay's Rocco Baldelli, Cleveland's Jody Gerut and Milwaukee's Scott Podsednik in voting announced Friday.

All those guys have comparable stats but none of them homered in the World Series. Maybe it's racism, language barrier but I suspect a lot of it boils down to money and exposure. Matsui clocked in a cool six million this year. These other players made 5-10% of that. The truth is Matsui did not hit six million dollars worth of home runs this year, especially if you're focusing on the regular season.

Hell no, it's not about racism at all. More than anything, I think the writers who vote for ROTY understand Matsui's strengths as a veteran player, not some rookie.

Besides, hitting a home run in the world series does not a ROTY make.

[Captain Japan]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Hideki Matsui didn't make the Topps All-Rookie Team, either.

The Japanese outfielder who starred for the New York Yankees was beaten out by Tampa Bay's Rocco Baldelli, Cleveland's Jody Gerut and Milwaukee's Scott Podsednik in voting announced Friday.

All those guys have comparable stats but none of them homered in the World Series. Maybe it's racism, language barrier but I suspect a lot of it boils down to money and exposure. Matsui clocked in a cool six million this year. These other players made 5-10% of that. The truth is Matsui did not hit six million dollars worth of home runs this year, especially if you're focusing on the regular season.

The vote is taken before the playoffs begin so playoff play doesn't matter.

It isn't racism. I think a good argument could be made for Berroa anyway. Just as Matsui drove in more runs, Berroa scored a lot more runs, stole a lot more bases, and played a more demanding position at least equally as well as Matsui.

I think (finally) people are just tired of giving this award to players who are already professionals. I think the Jackie Robinson comparison is ludicrous, but that's Steinbrenner for you.

[AssKissinger]

Well besides Nomo, whom I already mentioned, Kazuhiro Sasaki and Ichiro Suzuki both won Rookie of the Year. So, they'll vote for a veteran J-Player if it's the clear choice. But Matsui had real competition this year. He wasn't an obvious best choice. I already posted the stats that reinforce that argument. A homerun, in the World Series, like you say, doesn't a ROTY make. Matsui is living proof of that. But I'll stick to how I feel about it. Delivering in the post season and in championships is the ultimate test for any athlete. For this same reason, I think Maddux is probably over rated as a pitcher.

The vote is taken before the playoffs begin so playoff play doesn't matter

Yeah, actually I wasn't sure about that but I thought that was the case. But, still they announce the winner after the World Series so it's natural to take into account post season play when thinking about whether or not they made the right decision. But it is a good point that flies in the face of quite a bit of what I've been talking about.

[Captain Japan]

Well besides Nomo, whom I already mentioned, Kazuhiro Sasaki and Ichiro Suzuki both won Rookie of the Year. So, they'll vote for a veteran J-Player if it's the clear choice.

Sure, but I think writers in the States have now realized that these guys aren't really rookies. Such a realization can't take place overnight; most of these guys' knowledge of Japanese baseball before 1995 was only Sadaharu Oh. And now people are getting the point - these guys are pros.

There was an interesting little piece in the Asahi's "Vox Populi Vox Dei" the other day where it took Matsui's second place finish as a sign of respect for the Japanese baseball. I agree with that.

[Socratesabroad]

Matsui lost. But perhaps someone should have explained the rookie award to the Japanese consulate in the US...

On TV, they showed Matsui talking to an official from the Japanese consulate in the States. Matsui commented that he didn't win the rookie award. Ever clued in, the official's response was 'But hey, there's always next year...'

To which Matsui kindly explained - 'But I won't be a rookie next year...'

[ramchop]

These other players made 5-10% of that. The truth is Matsui did not hit six million dollars worth of home runs this year, especially if you're focusing on the regular season.

I'm sure he made the Yankees more than six million dollars worth of merchandise sales in Japan. Probably a very sound investment.