Junk in your J-trunk (room)

[yanpa]

Like somebody noted, the big problem in Japanese houses is often layout, not total space. Those pointless corridors that surround the rooms and eat 1/4 of the available space drive me KooKoo.

And let's not forget the necessity to shoehorn a washitsu in there as well, come what may. Much as I'd like to have one, it'd have to be *in addition to* rather than an *integral part of* the house, sort of like a conservatory. The other houses in this development all have one on the ground floor, which makes the remaining LDK area very pokey.

[matsuki]

Like somebody noted, the big problem in Japanese houses is often layout, not total space. Those pointless corridors that surround the rooms and eat 1/4 of the available space drive me KooKoo.

And let's not forget the necessity to shoehorn a washitsu in there as well, come what may. Much as I'd like to have one, it'd have to be *in addition to* rather than an *integral part of* the house, sort of like a conservatory. The other houses in this development all have one on the ground floor, which makes the remaining LDK area very pokey.

LOL, I understand them in country homes but in the tiny showbox homes/apartments, it's such a reach. (and since when do they not become the hording warehouse since they're the least used room?) builder in Aichi that I know did a washitsu end to an open design kitchen/living/dining room...was cool and useful as he had his drinking table and TV mounted there but not exactly traditional.

[kurogane]

Aaaah, yes, the Tatami addiction. I hate those unless they're newer than a year or so. What a gross idea. And don't get me started on the preference for sitting on the floor.

Having said that, an open design like Choko mentioned with the filthy straw mats at the one end would be quite pleasant spatially.

Until The Hoarding begins.........................

The Hoarding..................The Hoarding.................

I remember being told that diagnoses of OCD are rare in Japan; the logic was why medicalise Normal

Remeber that Rocketnews video of a Tokyo apartment for 50,000 yen or wtf it was, with the weird looking magazine hoarder tenant?

Normal...................eeeek.

[matsuki]

I'm glad my lemur and her family aren't with nuts cause I put one of those raised beds in our washitsu bedroom and that kind of blasphemy could get one castrated in other households here.

As to the whole sitting on the ground, we even have chairs in the temple of lemur (on the tatami! gasp!) so while it's quaint every once in awhile at an izakaya or something, fuck that shit at home.

[Wage Slave]

Like somebody noted, the big problem in Japanese houses is often layout, not total space. Those pointless corridors that surround the rooms and eat 1/4 of the available space drive me KooKoo.

And let's not forget the necessity to shoehorn a washitsu in there as well, come what may. Much as I'd like to have one, it'd have to be *in addition to* rather than an *integral part of* the house, sort of like a conservatory. The other houses in this development all have one on the ground floor, which makes the remaining LDK area very pokey.

I couldn't live without mine. Well, the room but not the decor. Carpet, furniture, new light fitting, remove shoji/fit curtains, paintjob, PC, Projector, Screen and HiFi make it my sanity room. It's also useful as a place for meeting people, discussing things and so on.

As for space, things are indeed different out in the provinces. Our place is probably about average for round here - 6 tatami washitsu, 18 tatami LDK and about another 5 tatami's worth of genkan/landing. We've added another 10 tatami of lounge plus a couple of other things. It's now a bit bigger than average but still not especially spacious by local standards.

[matsuki]

Ehhh so it's no longer a empty/horde filled washitsu but a useful room? What a concept!

[Wage Slave]

Works for me . Thinking about it though the last two houses I have visited are pretty much exactly as you describe. Unused, except for storing stuff that either shouldn't be stored at all or stored elsewhere.

[Russell]

Works for me . Thinking about it though the last two houses I have visited are pretty much exactly as you describe. Unused, except for storing stuff that either shouldn't be stored at all or stored elsewhere.

Did anyone notice that there is not much storage room in Japanese homes?

Not many seem to use their attics.

[Wage Slave]

Works for me . Thinking about it though the last two houses I have visited are pretty much exactly as you describe. Unused, except for storing stuff that either shouldn't be stored at all or stored elsewhere.

Did anyone notice that there is not much storage room in Japanese homes?

Not many seem to use their attics.

It's a real problem everywhere. I once had a tour of a millionaire's residence here and he had an entire floor devoted to storage.

Those metal outside storage units are a bit pricey but are well made and work very well. Plus we built some more storage in the extension. I had designs on the attic but the builders were very against the idea as they claimed the extra weight up there would stuff up the earthquake resistance. As the roof pitch is pretty modest around here, it didn't seem worth pursuing as there isn't that much space to colonise anyway.

We have access to a fairly clean and dry barn 45 minutes drive away and that helps a lot for things like winter tyres and unused furniture.

[Russell]

I am still planning to lay a floor in my attic for storage, and combine it with roof insulation.

I have around 80 square meters of attic above the 2-story part of my house and 40 square meters above the 1-story part. Around 25% of this space may be unusable because of too cramped conditions, but this still leaves me with 90 square meters of storage.


It may make a difference in earthquake resistance, but I think this is not so much.

[matsuki]

Friend's two story home has a pretty reasonable size attic that can be filled with plenty of stuff...but on the other hand, has an extra office willed with ancient fax/copy machines he knows he'll never use again??

[Yokohammer]

Attics can be really dangerous.

I had one in the house in Yokohama, and it quickly became a repository for stuff that soon faded from memory but continued to take up space for many years. When I moved out, almost 20 years after moving in, I excavated gobs of stuff that I hadn't even seen in 20 years. I kind of figured that if I hadn't seen it or even remembered it was there for a couple of decades, chances were that I didn't really need it so it all got dumped (which cost money).

I know you need a place for "stuff," but it's probably safer if it's not someplace where you can just shove said stuff and forget about it. At least for me it is.

Right now all the stuff I don't really want to see on a daily basis is stored out in my shed, which doubles as my workshop, so I'm in and out of there pretty constantly and can keep an eye on the stuff so that doesn't sort of "hide" in there, if you catch my drift.

Stuff can get out of hand and be a real pain in the ass if you don't keep it under control.

That's coming from an only partially recovered stuffaholic.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Attics can be really dangerous.

I had one in the house in Yokohama, and it quickly became a repository for stuff that soon faded from memory but continued to take up space for many years. When I moved out, almost 20 years after moving in, I excavated gobs of stuff that I hadn't even seen in 20 years. I kind of figured that if I hadn't seen it or even remembered it was there for a couple of decades, chances were that I didn't really need it so it all got dumped (which cost money).

I know you need a place for "stuff," but it's probably safer if it's not someplace where you can just shove said stuff and forget about it. At least for me it is.

Right now all the stuff I don't really want to see on a daily basis is stored out in my shed, which doubles as my workshop, so I'm in and out of there pretty constantly and can keep an eye on the stuff so that doesn't sort of "hide" in there, if you catch my drift.

Stuff can get out of hand and be a real pain in the ass if you don't keep it under control.

That's coming from an only partially recovered stuffaholic.

Every couple of years I like to go through my stuff and throw out what I don't really need or want. I can't say I've ever regretted parting with anything.

[Yokohammer]

Every couple of years I like to go through my stuff and throw out what I don't really need or want. I can't say I've ever regretted parting with anything.

There's a fine line between "Hmm ... I might need that someday" and "I'm not going to need that, and if I do I can just buy a new one." Sounds like you're on the right side of that line. I'm getting there, but still working on it.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Every couple of years I like to go through my stuff and throw out what I don't really need or want. I can't say I've ever regretted parting with anything.

There's a fine line between "Hmm ... I might need that someday" and "I'm not going to need that, and if I do I can just buy a new one." Sounds like you're on the right side of that line. I'm getting there, but still working on it.

The accumulation of useless omiyage is definitely a problem for some. I used to feel bad throwing shit like that out when I was young. Not any more. That's why I generally only give omiyage that can be eaten or drunk. I don't want to burden anyone with junk they'll never use.

[Coligny]

The omiyage that are tea cup with a saucer, 1 couple only, never even survive the first use...

Who think giving this kind of shit is a good idea !?

The minibunker got 3x8 tatamis room on the west side of the first floor, around the dead people furniture closet thing... Design wanted by me Julie's grandma...
I can't stand that thing, mominlaw can't stand that thing, me Julie's can't stand that thing...
Just dad think it's perfect like this...
Really need to unleash the furkids on the place so he can understand that weak straw tatamis and carpet were never designed to survive felines takeover...

[matsuki]

Every couple of years I like to go through my stuff and throw out what I don't really need or want. I can't say I've ever regretted parting with anything.

There's a fine line between "Hmm ... I might need that someday" and "I'm not going to need that, and if I do I can just buy a new one." Sounds like you're on the right side of that line. I'm getting there, but still working on it.

The accumulation of useless omiyage is definitely a problem for some. I used to feel bad throwing shit like that out when I was young. Not any more. That's why I generally only give omiyage that can be eaten or drunk. I don't want to burden anyone with junk they'll never use.

Omiyage burden...totally agree with your philosophy as long as it excludes giving 30,000yen watermelons. The temple probably has half the food we all eat supplied as gifts and let me tell you that no matter how tasty those 1,000yen strawberries are, I would never buy one myself.

[yanpa]

the dead people furniture closet thing

[Coligny]

Googly, googly goog...

It's a butsudan i think...

[Russell]

Googly, googly goog...

It's a butsudan i think...

You should be happy that your inlaws want to have it in a tatami room.

You don't want such a thing in your living room, do you?!?

[yanpa]

Googly, googly goog...

It's a butsudan i think...

No offence, I just thought it was an excellent description

I will use it myself.

[Coligny]

My bubble riddled memory is not offended the least...
And for the dutch husband, I got my own micro butsudan, shared with the ashes of the french kitty who reside in a creepy looking urn shaped after Anubis.

image.jpg

[Wage Slave]

It may make a difference in earthquake resistance, but I think this is not so much.

It is going to vary a lot depending on the design and construction I would imagine. If the house was built in the last 25 years or so there will be several pages of calculations somewhere modelling the structure's behaviour in a powerful quake. One good way to get some reasonably expert and free advice can be to invite the original builder to quote for the job/suggest improvements/refurbs. They leap at the chance and they can be mined for information about the structural details of the place. In our case Sekisui House agreed with our contractor - They didn't want anything to do with adding weight up there.

They also knew the location of a useful access hatch under one of the tatami mats which was very handy to know about and a few other useful little snippets.

[matsuki]

No weight up there? Did they build with used chopsticks and cardboard or did they take "stick frame" literally?

[Coligny]

No weight up there? Did they build with used chopsticks and cardboard or did they take "stick frame" literally?

The dangerous reverse pendulum effect, disastrous during quakes... You know like those fucking elevated highway they build everywhere with T shaped pillars. That collapsed so gracefully in Kobe...l

[matsuki]

So they should stick to concrete boxes?

[Wage Slave]

No weight up there? Did they build with used chopsticks and cardboard or did they take "stick frame" literally?

The dangerous reverse pendulum effect, disastrous during quakes... You know like those fucking elevated highway they build everywhere with T shaped pillars. That collapsed so gracefully in Kobe...l

Exactly the worry. The house is light steel frame rather than heavy steel frame so that may make a difference. As far as I can make out, It relies on a large number of fairly light steel girders arranged in a fairly dense cage with strategic panels in the corners built much more strongly. There isn't any doubt it will withstand a quake well but is a product of fairly careful design and calculation rather than brute force over engineering. Hence, mess with it at your peril was the consensus.

[yanpa]

Most of the wood-frame new-builds I've seen in Tokyo (including Chez Yanpa) have a small "attic" which provides a few sqm of storage. Here the roof is specially raised for it, the rest of the roof area would be too low to provide any useful space. It's better than nothing, though to be honest much there's not much space for more than the emergency toilet paper supplies and the winter quilts.

[Russell]

No weight up there? Did they build with used chopsticks and cardboard or did they take "stick frame" literally?

The dangerous reverse pendulum effect, disastrous during quakes... You know like those fucking elevated highway they build everywhere with T shaped pillars. That collapsed so gracefully in Kobe...l

Exactly the worry. The house is light steel frame rather than heavy steel frame so that may make a difference. As far as I can make out, It relies on a large number of fairly light steel girders arranged in a fairly dense cage with strategic panels in the corners built much more strongly. There isn't any doubt it will withstand a quake well but is a product of fairly careful design and calculation rather than brute force over engineering. Hence, mess with it at your peril was the consensus.

My home was built by Sekisui House 15 years ago. Main steel frame is 3.5 mm thick or so (I have to measure to get the exact thickness), with beams shaped in a エ form that is 200 mm high and 100 mm wide. There are also thinner beams, shaped in a コ form with height 75 mm and width 45 mm (I don't have the measurements of the thickness of the steel at hand).

Covering the whole attic with a floor would add about 1000 kg, assuming I use 15 mm concrete panels (コンパネ). It may be an option to use 12 mm and laying the floor in only part of the attic to save on weight and cost. Even a floor of 25 square meters up there would be very useful.

Design safety factors of each structural member in a building is typically around 2.0, which I assume may be applicable in this case too. This is relatively low, because loads are well understood.

Yep, maybe I should reduce the floor space up there...

[Yokohammer]

My place is around 25 years old, and it withstood that freakin' earthquake (6+ or something ... damn it was strong). All traditional wood frame construction, but thankfully after the big change in the architectural regulations.

There was, however, a bit of damage to the roof. Not serious enough to cause leakage, but it does need to be fixed, so this is how Hammer Manor looks today:

RoofRepairs.jpg

The building in the foreground on the left is my shed/workshop, which is the potential trouble spot for "stuff".