"Why Are Japanese Homes Disposable?"

[Wage Slave]

I have to admit I quite like the underfloor storage in the kitchen. And it doubles as an access hatch to the underfloor area. I am wondering about floor tiles for my kitchen floor. Did you go with the hard vinyl ones or the glazed earthenware type with grout?

we used outdoor creamic tiles with grout. They thought I was nuts until they saw them in the house.

You laid those on top of a wooden floor? I'd worry about cracking or tiles coming loose when the house does the earthquake conga......
I prefer tiles though.

In that case I suppose you just accept that the floor will need to be relaid. There will probably be bigger things to worry about anyway. That kind of floors looks good for sure and should wear well although my mother's had a nasty habit of chipping. My worry is that it would be too cold and hard especially if you have young children. I don't any more but In any case, here in Slave Manor, I know for sure that a thick rug would appear on that kind of floor within days.

At the moment we have fake parquet hardwood laminate which is still fine after 25 years but the polyurethane finish is starting to wear out in places. I'm wondering whether I should just paint a new layer over the whole thing, sand it and redo, or lay the best vinyl I can find. I did see some imported vinyl floor tiles in Super Viva which were tougher than the usual cushion floor. Or perhaps, shipping something better from somewhere, by sea, wouldn't cost that much.

[wagyl]

The Wagyl Rule: wait long enough, and even those who try to be vague about their location start to be less vague, by mentioning a Home Centre.

Shipping by sea is no longer always the cheapest way, especially now as more agents want you to rent a whole container.

[Wage Slave]

Kansai and proud of it!

Even better, by air, then. Given the prices charged for this sort of thing here I must do a bit of investigating.

Or .....On Finnair, an extra bag, up to 20 kilos, from London to Japan costs about 7,000 Yen. That bag could easily be 20kg of tiles. A roll of flooring might need some extra negotiation but they are very used to skiis so why not?

[matsuki]

I have to admit I quite like the underfloor storage in the kitchen. And it doubles as an access hatch to the underfloor area. I am wondering about floor tiles for my kitchen floor. Did you go with the hard vinyl ones or the glazed earthenware type with grout?

we used outdoor creamic tiles with grout. They thought I was nuts until they saw them in the house.

You laid those on top of a wooden floor? I'd worry about cracking or tiles coming loose when the house does the earthquake conga......
I prefer tiles though.In that case I suppose you just accept that the floor will need to be relaid. There will probably be bigger things to worry about anyway. That kind of floors looks good for sure and should wear well although my mother's had a nasty habit of chipping. My worry is that it would be too cold and hard especially if you have young children. I don't any more but In any case, here in Slave Manor, I know for sure that a thick rug would appear on that kind of floor within days.

They have some more flexible grouts nowadays and it's easy to add some grout or silicone to any unsightly cracks.

Kansai and proud of it!

Even better, by air, then. Given the prices charged for this sort of thing here I must do a bit of investigating.

Or .....On Finnair, an extra bag, up to 20 kilos, from London to Japan costs about 7,000 Yen. That bag could easily be 20kg of tiles. A roll of flooring might need some extra negotiation but they are very used to skiis so why not?

I brought my tiles, grout, and thinset all by Singapore Air check in luggage. $150USD for each bag up to 32kilos

[kurogane]

I brought my tiles, grout, and thinset all by Singapore Air check in luggage. $150USD for each bag up to 32kilos

That looks cheaper than most air freight offerings. Did the boys at ABC Baggage Delivery just love you, or did you have somebody come get you in a car? I once bought a guy a bottle of sake for humping all our file filled duffle bags up 3 flights of stairs. It seemed to help his groans.

[matsuki]

I brought my tiles, grout, and thinset all by Singapore Air check in luggage. $150USD for each bag up to 32kilos

That looks cheaper than most air freight offerings. Did the boys at ABC Baggage Delivery just love you, or did you have somebody come get you in a car? I once bought a guy a bottle of sake for humping all our file filled duffle bags up 3 flights of stairs. It seemed to help his groans.

5,000yen and my car was waiting for me at the pickup area. Tis a good deal

[Russell]

Last December when I flied to Holland on an Economy ticket, KLM allowed me two Check-in bags of 23 kg each, because I purchased my ticket in Japan.

I just checked their web page, but this offer is currently not listed on it.

[wuchan]

I have to admit I quite like the underfloor storage in the kitchen. And it doubles as an access hatch to the underfloor area. I am wondering about floor tiles for my kitchen floor. Did you go with the hard vinyl ones or the glazed earthenware type with grout?

we used outdoor creamic tiles with grout. They thought I was nuts until they saw them in the house.

You laid those on top of a wooden floor? I'd worry about cracking or tiles coming loose when the house does the earthquake conga......
I prefer tiles though.

plywood subfloor with rubber dampener runners. Like I said "OUR WAY". AKA "my way". There is a bead of 100% silicone between the floor joists and the subfloor and a 1/8 gap between the tile and the wall for movement.

The entire first floor is hardwood laid at global standard. When I pointed out the problems upstairs with the fake wood.... oops.. a subcontractor... won't pay... they are out of business... no way to sue.... blah... blah....

[Russell]

I have to admit I quite like the underfloor storage in the kitchen. And it doubles as an access hatch to the underfloor area. I am wondering about floor tiles for my kitchen floor. Did you go with the hard vinyl ones or the glazed earthenware type with grout?

we used outdoor creamic tiles with grout. They thought I was nuts until they saw them in the house.

You laid those on top of a wooden floor? I'd worry about cracking or tiles coming loose when the house does the earthquake conga......
I prefer tiles though.

plywood subfloor with rubber dampener runners. Like I said "OUR WAY". AKA "my way". There is a bead of 100% silicone between the floor joists and the subfloor and a 1/8 gap between the tile and the wall for movement.

The entire first floor is hardwood laid at global standard. When I pointed out the problems upstairs with the fake wood.... oops.. a subcontractor... won't pay... they are out of business... no way to sue.... blah... blah....

Is that Sumitomo Ringyo who built your house?

I thought they only did purely wooden floors?

[wuchan]

I have to admit I quite like the underfloor storage in the kitchen. And it doubles as an access hatch to the underfloor area. I am wondering about floor tiles for my kitchen floor. Did you go with the hard vinyl ones or the glazed earthenware type with grout?

we used outdoor creamic tiles with grout. They thought I was nuts until they saw them in the house.

You laid those on top of a wooden floor? I'd worry about cracking or tiles coming loose when the house does the earthquake conga......
I prefer tiles though.

plywood subfloor with rubber dampener runners. Like I said "OUR WAY". AKA "my way". There is a bead of 100% silicone between the floor joists and the subfloor and a 1/8 gap between the tile and the wall for movement.

The entire first floor is hardwood laid at global standard. When I pointed out the problems upstairs with the fake wood.... oops.. a subcontractor... won't pay... they are out of business... no way to sue.... blah... blah....

Is that Sumitomo Ringyo who built your house?

I thought they only did purely wooden floors?

The solid wood is very expensive but very high quality. Most people only have it in a few rooms, the rest is typical japanese type fake wood/tatami. No fucking rice floors in my house tho.

[chibaka]

So I was working on my latest garden project today, just happened to look at the front of my house... and noticed a nasty crack in the cladding. I already know the house is made of shit and glue, but this was a surprise. House is 13 or 14 years old, I am the second owner, and I know who built the pile of shit, so...... apparently there was a 10 year warranty, what do fellow FG think my chances are of a free repair? Name and shame tactics?

I have full house insurance but am lead to believe that they won't pay out unless the heap falls down... Thoughts? I'll get a pic tomorrow ..

[Coligny]

Dude... Daguerreotype plz...

[matsuki]

If it's really bad and they refuse to do something for you, they might cave in to some threats of plastering the Japaneeze interwebs with images/details of their quality work and their lack of follow up support....if it's small and cosmetic, probably not worth the time and you're better of repairing it on your own.

[chibaka]

This is the crack, the cladding panels have separated. This will let a load of water in during rainy season me thinks.
And those nails look like a cowboy job at best.....

IMG_5744 (Large) (Medium).JPG

[matsuki]

That is pretty bad...I'd probably put some effort in to pressuring them. WTF are they doing using nails? No thinset? Is that grout fake or?

[chibaka]

Vertical join is some kind of sealer, not wearing well after 13 years. Horizontal line is just part of the panel design. Nails are a fuck up I think, or just the result of using shit materials. Seems to have affected about 2 metres, between 1st and 2nd floor windows.

[Wage Slave]

I don't think that is tiling, so therefore no thinset and no grout.

It looks scarily, right down to the blue plastic and metal, similar to the cladding he had fitted to the extension about a year ago. They are some kind of lightweight concrete panels laid horizontally on a support structure comprising of vertical metal rails with hooks. The horizontal joins are a sort of tongue and groove affair and the vertical ones are filled with silicone sealant. I assumed that the vertical joints are done like that to allow for some movement/shock absorption during quakes.

I just had a look at ours and there isn't a nail in sight. I have no idea why they are there. Are there lots or just in that location?

In our case the silicone is the same colour as the wall. In this case it appears to be a dark brown while the wall is grey? In any case it has disintegrated and the bad news is that all the other joints are likely on their way. That will indeed leak plenty of water so needs fixing. Unfortunately it is a fairly labour intensive process - cut out all the old sealant, clean and apply fresh sealant. It also needs scaffolding which bumps up costs further.

It is surprising that it is in such bad shape so soon. My SiL had to redo her house after about 15 years because of leaks but it didn't look nearly as bad as that, the sealant was basically sound but had hardened and shrunk slightly allowing water in at the edges. Its' quite a big house but it cost serious money to have done by the maker (Daiwa). Two and a half million I think, including a repaint.

Daiwa refused to do anything except make sympathetic noises. Fair wear and tear as far as they were concerned.

[matsuki]

I don't think that is tiling, so therefore no thinset and no grout.

That's what I thought...faux tiles on larger slabs. So they're basically hanging on hooks? Sounds really over complicated and expensive....and doesn't last?

I just had a look at ours and there isn't a nail in sight. I have no idea why they are there. Are there lots or just in that location?

THIS...if this is the only place with nails and the only place cracked....

Daiwa refused to do anything except make sympathetic noises. Fair wear and tear as far as they were concerned.

Also fair to point out how shitty their methods/materials are to everyone you can blast with a fakyuuuuu Daiwa campaign.

[Wage Slave]

That's what I thought...faux tiles on larger slabs. So they're basically hanging on hooks? Sounds really over complicated and expensive....and doesn't last?

Hmmm. No, no faux tiles on larger slabs. The wall (if it is like mine) consists of horizontal panels of concretely stuff laid on top of each other. The hooks are more there to keep the panels against the wall than support them but I suppose they do a bit of that too. It isn't really very complicated and looks fine. However, silicone sealant, which I see all over the place on Japanese houses, has a lifetime. About 15 years usually.

They say it is needed for earthquake resistance/flexibility but what a nasty little inbuilt fault guaranteed to cost a bunch of money. Doing our extension won't cost too much but doing a whole house ......

[matsuki]

So what is supporting the panels if it's not the hooks?

[chibaka]

Yes they are large slabs supposed to look like some traditional Japanese stone tiles. The silicon I assume is to allow movement, understandable, but I didn't notice the nails until after I had taken the photos. Handy zoom lens That just seems shoddy, if silicon allows movement, nails certainly won't.
I'll look around the house this week, then visit the cowboy builder.

[Wage Slave]

So what is supporting the panels if it's not the hooks?

They are sitting on top of each other.

[Coligny]

This is the crack, the cladding panels have separated. This will let a load of water in during rainy season me thinks.
And those nails look like a cowboy job at best.....

IMG_5744 (Large) (Medium).JPG

It's standard outside finish panel over iron or wood frame (would explain the nails) This skin look like an upgraded choice from the standard low cost corrugated iron skin, that would explain the same process to hang it...

Honestly, that's just a tiny expansion/motion crack, the ground under two modules might have shifted/dried ?
Have someone scrap the old silicon (UV on silicon make it sometime brittle, explaining the weird degradation here) and re waterproof it.

I don't see it as a big deal nor unfixable

IS IT a south facing wall ?

[Wage Slave]

Yes they are large slabs supposed to look like some traditional Japanese stone tiles. The silicon I assume is to allow movement, understandable, but I didn't notice the nails until after I had taken the photos. Handy zoom lens That just seems shoddy, if silicon allows movement, nails certainly won't.
I'll look around the house this week, then visit the cowboy builder.

In the short term, there is nothing to prevent you from buying a tube of silicone and at least waterproofing that little bit. Wind blown rain will definitely penetrate it and cause more difficult internal damage.

[chibaka]

Yes, south facing wall. Silicon aging I understand, but using silicon which is flexible, with nails which aren't is dumb. I can apply new silicon myself, more pissed with the cracking caused by the nails.

[Wage Slave]

Yes, south facing wall. Silicon aging I understand, but using silicon which is flexible, with nails which aren't is dumb. I can apply new silicon myself, more pissed with the cracking caused by the nails.

Is the whole thing nailed or just that little bit?

[matsuki]

So what is supporting the panels if it's not the hooks?

They are sitting on top of each other.

Is the bottom panel on the ground/foundation where it can soak up water? So to replace one, you have to first remove all panels above? (Sorry, I'm just not understanding the ingeniousness of this setup)

[Coligny]

Yes, south facing wall. Silicon aging I understand, but using silicon which is flexible, with nails which aren't is dumb. I can apply new silicon myself, more pissed with the cracking caused by the nails.

A building is a set of rigid element, with between them gap to allow for flexibility. The telltale here is the white styrene. You are observing what at house scale is an articulation joint.
My roof is the same clusterfuck, the bunker is so big that the roof is in fact a tiling of concrete slabs from 8 to 10 tatamis in size, resting on the concrete skeleton, with a 3 cm gap between them filled with tar/silicon (that didn't age gracefully at all). This in my case allows for summer expansion/winter contraction without the concrete exploding because of the yearly cycle. I'd bet cheezburger money that the roof tiles are not directly anchored to the skeleton but loosely restrained allowing for minor horizontal motion or anchored on only one side the other 3 free to grow/shrink.

[chibaka]

So what is supporting the panels if it's not the hooks?

They are sitting on top of each other.

Is the bottom panel on the ground/foundation where it can soak up water? So to replace one, you have to first remove all panels above? (Sorry, I'm just not understanding the ingeniousness of this setup)

This panel is between first and second floor windows. there is another panel cracked also because of nails. I'll try to upload another pic.

[chibaka]

Same problem, higher panel. Either a shoddy builder, or the previous owner tried a retarded repair.

IMG_5756 (Large).JPG