Square Footage in Tokyo

[phlizmo]

I know there are some mighty tiny apartments in Tokyo on average but how are "large" are the larger ones by comparison? I am wondering what sort of square footage am I looking at in a more expensive 300,000 JPY per month apartment or house?

D

[matsuki]

Japan doesn't use "Square footage" to measure area, you're in for some fun...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatami

[Taro Toporific]

I know there are some mighty tiny apartments in Tokyo on average but how are "large" are the larger ones by comparison? I am wondering what sort of square footage am I looking at in a more expensive 300,000 JPY per month apartment or house?

For Western gaijin, average is 60 sqm (645 sqft) and 80 sqm (861 sqft) is huge in Tokyo. People with over 100 sqm (1076 sqft) are billionaires here in the Concrete Buttplug(c).

For the locals, a typical Tokyo rabbit hutch 1 DK starts at 10 jo of tatami mats or 134 sqft.
tatami mats in square feet

[phlizmo]

fook me... Well I ask in squarefootage because the relocation form I am filling out asks "Desired Size (square feet or meters)"... Anyone have a ballpark figure of a decent apartment? 1,000?

[Taro Toporific]

fook me... Well I ask in squarefootage because the relocation form I am filling out asks "Desired Size (square feet or meters)"... Anyone have a ballpark figure of a decent apartment? 1,000?

You can ask for 100sqm (1076.4 sqft) in the 300,000yen/m range but you may have to settle for the 85-to-95 sq/m range, ESPECIALLY since you are looking in some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Tokyo (or Japan). In your price range, you could get a full-sized house built for German expats near Omori station, two stops from Shinagawa but you seem to want to spend money on an "interesting" neighborhood.

http://www.metric-conversions.org/area/ ... -table.htm

[Yokohammer]

fook me... Well I ask in squarefootage because the relocation form I am filling out asks "Desired Size (square feet or meters)"... Anyone have a ballpark figure of a decent apartment? 1,000?

You can ask for 100sqm (1076.4 sqft) in the 300,000yen/m range but you may have to settle for the 85-to-95 sq/m range, ESPECIALLY since you are looking in some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Tokyo (or Japan). In your price range, you could get a full-sized house built for German expats near Omori station, two stops from Shinagawa but you seem to want to spend money on an "interesting" neighborhood.

http://www.metric-conversions.org/area/ ... -table.htm

And ... Omori is a really nice neighbourhood. I lived there for several years (in the early '80s, admittedly). It's not exactly the nightlife capital of Japan, but it is a great place to live. It also gives you decent access to both Tokyo and Yokohama.

[phlizmo]

fook me... Well I ask in squarefootage because the relocation form I am filling out asks "Desired Size (square feet or meters)"... Anyone have a ballpark figure of a decent apartment? 1,000?

You can ask for 100sqm (1076.4 sqft) in the 300,000yen/m range but you may have to settle for the 85-to-95 sq/m range, ESPECIALLY since you are looking in some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Tokyo (or Japan). In your price range, you could get a full-sized house built for German expats near Omori station, two stops from Shinagawa but you seem to want to spend money on an "interesting" neighborhood.

http://www.metric-conversions.org/area/ ... -table.htm

Well, what would you do in my situation? Im looking to make my stay in japan as comfortable as possible so just trying ot figure out what my options are. I know ebisu is a place I enjoy. The other two not so sure about them since I have never been there but they come highly recommended by my japanese friends. I dunno, you tell me. It's not my money to spend btw so I'm looking to maximize whats being offered to me. thoughts?

[wagyl]

Wow. Once again, the expat vs local hire divide strikes again.

My experience in Tokyo:
After a disastrous mistake sharing 15 square metres with an old school friend and his newly discovered Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, I shared about 38 square metres with a heathen, which was a good balance of private and shared space, and room to move. Trying to fill that space with what you brought with you in a suitcase would be difficult.

Next I was on my own in about 15 square metres again heavily subsidised by my employer, and when that deal expired I found about 28 square metres, which was generally regarded as luxury for a sole occupant and suited very nicely after the previous experiences. I suppose a lot of it comes down to what your expectations are, and in one way that makes any eventual move from the expat package style accommodation to the local accommodation difficult.

I haven't listed what rent I was paying because I prefer not to live as centrally as the sort of places you are looking at, so not only is my information very old it is also totally irrelevant.

(Oh, and the esoteric knowledge: be aware that the size of tatami mats differs by region and often by date of construction, so even within Tokyo there is a noticable difference between 6 mat size rooms in an older construction [Edoma] and modern construction [Danchima]. The reduction in size is 3.5% but you will notice it.)

Daikanyama and Ebisu are really right next door to each other and in my view would be a similar living experience. If Daikanyama is one step away from Ebisu, I would say that Nakameguro is two steps away. I can tell that you and I look for different things in places to live, but I would say that Nakameguro has the most residential feel of the three you list on the other thread, the other two are more retail centre than residential in my opinion.

[Samurai_Jerk]

fook me... Well I ask in squarefootage because the relocation form I am filling out asks "Desired Size (square feet or meters)"... Anyone have a ballpark figure of a decent apartment? 1,000?

You can ask for 100sqm (1076.4 sqft) in the 300,000yen/m range but you may have to settle for the 85-to-95 sq/m range, ESPECIALLY since you are looking in some of the most expensive neighborhoods in Tokyo (or Japan). In your price range, you could get a full-sized house built for German expats near Omori station, two stops from Shinagawa but you seem to want to spend money on an "interesting" neighborhood.

http://www.metric-conversions.org/area/ ... -table.htm

Well, what would you do in my situation? Im looking to make my stay in japan as comfortable as possible so just trying ot figure out what my options are. I know ebisu is a place I enjoy. The other two not so sure about them since I have never been there but they come highly recommended by my japanese friends. I dunno, you tell me. It's not my money to spend btw so I'm looking to maximize whats being offered to me. thoughts?

I'm single and don't own many toys so I would prefer the smaller apartment in the cooler neighborhood. What you should do depends on your priorities so only you can answer that. By the way, in Japan they count closets, balconies, and space between walls when they list area so 60 m2 might be even smaller than you imagine. Anyway, you're going to have to compromise on something.

Is your music equipment a hobby or something you need for work? If it's a hobby you might want to store some of it at a family member's home if that's an option and just bring what you absolutely need to keep yourself happy.

[Taro Toporific]

Daikanyama and Ebisu are really right next door to each other and in my view would be a similar living experience. If Daikanyama is one step away from Ebisu, I would say that Nakameguro is two steps away. I can tell that you and I look for different things in places to live, but I would say that Nakameguro has the most residential feel of the three you list on the other thread, the other two are more retail centre than residential in my opinion.

My business partner's office/home was in Ebisu but across the street was Daikanyama: Six of one and half dozen of another. When going to Shinagawa, I would ALWAYS walk to Ebisu station even though Daikanyama station was closer to my Ebisu office.

However, Nakameguro is a requires a train transfer which just wastes time--Not much time but you will be reminded every damn day that you selected the fight the hoards of zombie salaryman at Nakameguro station* and again Ebisu station for no fucking good reason.

*Occasionally, the platform Nakameguro station will overfill
because of a "human body accident" (jumper) to
the point the hoards will start nudging each other
onto the tracks.

[GomiGirl]

I am local hire and I have a 120 sq m place. We pay about ¥260,000 a month and it is two bedrooms and carpeted throughout.

Size does matter in our house.

It is in Yoyogi about 10 minutes walk from Yamanote line or 5 minutes walk to Odakyu line. Less than ¥1,000 in a cab from Shinjuku drinking holes and super easy commute to just about everywhere. Mostly though I am on my mama-chari with my kid on his throne at the back now that I am a Yummy Mummy rather than a sexy single.

But 80sq m is pretty decent here for a family.

The noise factor you really have to consider - you will get complaints and evicted if you are too noisy - music etc. It is right on your contract too about instruments so be aware.

[wagyl]

Filling in a lazy lunch hour with idle searches brings http://www.m-standard.co.jp/search/%E6% ... 2_FA/5_JR/

It is all in foreign, but that covers 250,000 to 300,000 a month rent range in all three of Ebisu, Daikanyama, Nakameguro with one particular company. Of the places available which list area, you are looking at roughly 60 square metres.

[phlizmo]

I am local hire and I have a 120 sq m place. We pay about ¥260,000 a month and it is two bedrooms and carpeted throughout.

Size does matter in our house.

It is in Yoyogi about 10 minutes walk from Yamanote line or 5 minutes walk to Odakyu line. Less than ¥1,000 in a cab from Shinjuku drinking holes and super easy commute to just about everywhere. Mostly though I am on my mama-chari with my kid on his throne at the back now that I am a Yummy Mummy rather than a sexy single.

But 80sq m is pretty decent here for a family.

The noise factor you really have to consider - you will get complaints and evicted if you are too noisy - music etc. It is right on your contract too about instruments so be aware.

Yeah they asked me on my housing wish list if I was planning on brining any musical instruments. I told them I was. Music/sound fx/noise making is what I do for work so it would be nice to have the ability to do so. Certainly I could use headphones if need be, (most of the instruments I use are electric or electronic).. 120 sqm would be great. I've thought of living in Yoyogi since visiting back in 2006. Close to yamanote as you said as well as everything else I find interesting. Again that morning commute to shinagawa might suck too much to make it worth it.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I am local hire and I have a 120 sq m place. We pay about ¥260,000 a month and it is two bedrooms and carpeted throughout.

Size does matter in our house.

It is in Yoyogi about 10 minutes walk from Yamanote line or 5 minutes walk to Odakyu line. Less than ¥1,000 in a cab from Shinjuku drinking holes and super easy commute to just about everywhere. Mostly though I am on my mama-chari with my kid on his throne at the back now that I am a Yummy Mummy rather than a sexy single.

But 80sq m is pretty decent here for a family.

The noise factor you really have to consider - you will get complaints and evicted if you are too noisy - music etc. It is right on your contract too about instruments so be aware.

Yeah they asked me on my housing wish list if I was planning on brining any musical instruments. I told them I was. Music/sound fx/noise making is what I do for work so it would be nice to have the ability to do so. Certainly I could use headphones if need be, (most of the instruments I use are electric or electronic).. 120 sqm would be great. I've thought of living in Yoyogi since visiting back in 2006. Close to yamanote as you said as well as everything else I find interesting. Again that morning commute to shinagawa might suck too much to make it worth it.

If that's your job, shouldn't the place you'll be working for provide studio space?

[wagyl]

I'm finding it hard to get a feel for where the limits are: An Ebisu to Shinagawa commute is OK, but a Yoyogi to Shinagawa commute (on the same train mind you) might suck enough that it is a deal breaker.

[phlizmo]

I am local hire and I have a 120 sq m place. We pay about ¥260,000 a month and it is two bedrooms and carpeted throughout.

Size does matter in our house.

It is in Yoyogi about 10 minutes walk from Yamanote line or 5 minutes walk to Odakyu line. Less than ¥1,000 in a cab from Shinjuku drinking holes and super easy commute to just about everywhere. Mostly though I am on my mama-chari with my kid on his throne at the back now that I am a Yummy Mummy rather than a sexy single.

But 80sq m is pretty decent here for a family.

The noise factor you really have to consider - you will get complaints and evicted if you are too noisy - music etc. It is right on your contract too about instruments so be aware.

Yeah they asked me on my housing wish list if I was planning on brining any musical instruments. I told them I was. Music/sound fx/noise making is what I do for work so it would be nice to have the ability to do so. Certainly I could use headphones if need be, (most of the instruments I use are electric or electronic).. 120 sqm would be great. I've thought of living in Yoyogi since visiting back in 2006. Close to yamanote as you said as well as everything else I find interesting. Again that morning commute to shinagawa might suck too much to make it worth it.

If that's your job, shouldn't the place you'll be working for provide studio space?

You are correct. They do offer the space but ever since the big earthquake they are very tight with energy expenditure. I tend to do most of my creative work on the off hours on my own, usually at the office here in the US but here they dont mind the way they do in Japan. Not as easy in Japan with such strict and stiff office/studio protocol. I am making huge creative concessions for this welcome shift in my career because I am simply losing the spontaneous creative freedom I love here. My line of work is very opportunistic in the way the Japanese just don't practice. So in making these known compromises I would like to at the very least attempt to have a bit of creative freedom on my own time as well as the space in which to do it.

[phlizmo]

I'm finding it hard to get a feel for where the limits are: An Ebisu to Shinagawa commute is OK, but a Yoyogi to Shinagawa commute might suck enough that it is a deal breaker.

I dunno, you guys tell me. I may be wrong! In fact, I forget if its 20min or 30-40 min from Shinjuku to Shinagawa...

[phlizmo]

also on another thread someone mentioned I should at least be in somewhat close walking distance in case of zombie apocalypse. I took this into account when figuring on a nice neighborhood close-ish to shinagawa.

[yanpa]

I've thought of living in Yoyogi since visiting back in 2006. Close to yamanote as you said as well as everything else I find interesting. Again that morning commute to shinagawa might suck too much to make it worth it.

If I recall correctly from the time I lived in Harajuku and commuted via Shinagawa, the Yamanote Line in the morning in that direction is not too bad at all.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm finding it hard to get a feel for where the limits are: An Ebisu to Shinagawa commute is OK, but a Yoyogi to Shinagawa commute might suck enough that it is a deal breaker.

I dunno, you guys tell me. I may be wrong! In fact, I forget if its 20min or 30-40 min from Shinjuku to Shinagawa...

Under 20 mins.

[phlizmo]

I'm finding it hard to get a feel for where the limits are: An Ebisu to Shinagawa commute is OK, but a Yoyogi to Shinagawa commute might suck enough that it is a deal breaker.

I dunno, you guys tell me. I may be wrong! In fact, I forget if its 20min or 30-40 min from Shinjuku to Shinagawa...

Under 20 mins.

ah ok... So 20min rush hour commute... will I want to kill myself after the first 6 months?

ok let me re-phrase, at what rush hour commute distance will suicide become an attractive option?

[wagyl]

also on another thread someone mentioned I should at least be in somewhat close walking distance in case of zombie apocalypse. I took this into account when figuring on a nice neighborhood close-ish to shinagawa.

Another fun tool where you can drag the destination around to get an idea of how long you have to fend off the zombies, at usual Japanese office lady walking pace.
https://www.google.co.jp/maps/dir/35.68 ... 312119!3e2

[wagyl]

I'm finding it hard to get a feel for where the limits are: An Ebisu to Shinagawa commute is OK, but a Yoyogi to Shinagawa commute might suck enough that it is a deal breaker.

I dunno, you guys tell me. I may be wrong! In fact, I forget if its 20min or 30-40 min from Shinjuku to Shinagawa...

Under 20 mins.

ah ok... So 20min rush hour commute... will I want to kill myself after the first 6 months?

ok let me re-phrase, at what rush hour commute distance will suicide become an attractive option?

You are in LA right now, right? You drive to work? How long on a bad day? Have a dedicated parking spot at work or have to search and fight for a space? Give us an idea of your stamina before we can advise you. After all, I used to enjoy the two and a half mile walk home from work, as a way to switch from work to private mode. Your mileage sounds like it differs.

The links for the two stations quoted above gives the length of time on the trains. You can also swap the stations around and enter in Nakameguro or Daikanyama or whatever you like to get an idea.

[phlizmo]

I'm finding it hard to get a feel for where the limits are: An Ebisu to Shinagawa commute is OK, but a Yoyogi to Shinagawa commute might suck enough that it is a deal breaker.

I dunno, you guys tell me. I may be wrong! In fact, I forget if its 20min or 30-40 min from Shinjuku to Shinagawa...

Under 20 mins.

ah ok... So 20min rush hour commute... will I want to kill myself after the first 6 months?

ok let me re-phrase, at what rush hour commute distance will suicide become an attractive option?

You are in LA right now, right? You drive to work? How long on a bad day? Have a dedicated parking spot at work or have to search and fight for a space? Give us an idea of your stamina before we can advise you. After all, I used to enjoy the two and a half mile walk home from work, as a way to switch from work to private mode. Your mileage sounds like it differs.

The links for the two stations quoted above gives the length of time on the trains. You can also swap the stations around and enter in Nakameguro or Daikanyama or whatever you like to get an idea.

On a bad day about almost 2 hrs.... I have a lot/garage to park in.. Im ok with walking.. I walked to Gotanda one evening after work.. of course I took a cab back. My stamina is not what it should be meaning im open for a bit more distance. Shinagawa is not a place I want to live as much as I love to roll out of bed and walk to work in 5 minutes.. Its such a dreary place to spend a sunday.. Ok ok, I get it, im spoiled.. haha.. I really should just go there and look for houses/apartments there. At this point im trying to know what my options are. Its all new having this many options.. so forgive my naivete.

[GomiGirl]

Any commute to Shinagawa on the Yamanote is going to be fine.

You just want to avoid anything going into Marunouchi/Otemachi/Yurakucho areas. Those are the squishy trains.

So - is there any other idea that you are not going to shoot down once you hear about it? But hey, what do we know?

[GomiGirl]

I've thought of living in Yoyogi since visiting back in 2006. Close to yamanote as you said as well as everything else I find interesting. Again that morning commute to shinagawa might suck too much to make it worth it.

If I recall correctly from the time I lived in Harajuku and commuted via Shinagawa, the Yamanote Line in the morning in that direction is not too bad at all.

Since the Fukutoshin linked up with the Toyoko line there is a lot less pressure on that stretch of the Yamanote. They are still running every minute or so in peak hour so it is just peachy. You won't get a seat but as long as they are no delays (ie "human accidents") if one is full, just wait for the next one to get some breathing space.

But this is Tokyo. You are going to have to do some sort of commute at rush hour. Either adjust your work day to start at 10am or suck it up.

[wagyl]

I agree that Shinagawa is not a place to live, for someone who wants lively. Ebisu will possibly be the closest lively to where your workplace is. But that convenience will cost you, in rent or square feet.

It is about 5 Km or one hour away in the unlikely event that you are forced to walk. Zombie barricades may make that distance and time longer.

Where it is sort of difficult is that you put up conditions like Ebisu (9 minutes on Yamanote line) is OK but Yoyogi (17 minutes on the same Yamanote line) is not. But you will tolerate a couple of hours in LA traffic...

I think after you are settled and have been here for a month or two, you will kick yourself for some of the questions you have asked! We will all be able to laugh about it, though.

[wagyl]

I have set up a poll of Tokyo commutes here viewtopic.php?f=16&t=30394

[Russell]

Maybe just a stupid comment, since I don't live in Tokyo and all that, but isn't it an option to live in a weekly mansion for the first month of your stay and store your guitars at your work?

It gives you more time to explore all options on where to live the rest of your stay.

Just sayin'

[Samurai_Jerk]

Maybe just a stupid comment, since I don't live in Tokyo and all that, but isn't it an option to live in a weekly mansion for the first month of your stay and store your guitars at your work?

It gives you more time to explore all options on where to live the rest of your stay.

Just sayin'

I was thinking the same thing.