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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News ‹ Another newbie reporter "discovers" Japan

Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

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Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:36 pm

After the romance of expat life fades, the dream lives on

A lot of people dream of living abroad, imagining a life of freedom, wanton abandon and the indulgence of wanderlust.

Yet, in time, even the rowdy all-night drinking sessions become sobering reminders that things have changed. I go out sometimes with the crew I met at the beginning of my stay in Japan and realize there’s just a few of us left. There’s an unsettling feeling in the air, as if everyone is aware to some extent of their self-deception yet is afraid to bring it to the surface.

The scene sometimes reminds me of the Noah Baumbauch movie “Kicking and Screaming,” about a bunch of university graduates who choose to stay on campus and continue the student lifestyle, minus the studying. Conversations about the future always end with “Well, I’ll figure it out later” or words to that effect.

It becomes hard to tell if it’s the world that’s changed or the viewfinder through which I see it. I go back to the same bars in Shibuya that I went to years ago and see all the same faces. The wild and wacky bartender now seems like a faded actor as he keeps up the same shtick night after night. I see a younger version of myself in the fresh-faced young travelers and feel a sense of guilt over what exactly I’m doing here. Tokyo, a city once so full of endless possibilities and connections, seems so isolating and restrictive after a few years.

Weeks and years pass and it becomes easy to lie to myself even when there’s a clear sense that something fundamental is missing. My younger brother visiting put a lot of this into perspective. He was unafraid to call me up on my self-deception and was the first non-expat non-Japanese person I had spent a prolonged period of time with in about five years. He accused me of going sideways rather than forward with my life. I was taken aback.

“I am going forward,” I retorted. “And anyway, I’m still in my early 20s.”

“No you’re not — you’re in your mid-20s,” ...


:keyboardcoffee:
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby wagyl » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:42 pm

I can honestly say that I have never been to a British Pub here. Am I missing out?
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:48 pm

wagyl wrote:I can honestly say that I have never been to a British Pub here. Am I missing out?


It's exactly like an Irish pub except with Union Jacks on the walls.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby wagyl » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:52 pm

For reference, a different piece by the same writer earned itself a thread viewtopic.php?f=10&t=30255&p=341501
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby yanpa » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:11 pm

wagyl wrote:I can honestly say that I have never been to a British Pub here. Am I missing out?


Yes... you're missing out on
expats ... standing around in British pubs nursing beers.


Though the Aldgate in Shibuya does a nice Cornish Pastie, and is smoke-free to boot.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby J.A.F.O » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:21 pm

It'd be nice to just share a beer with a non military affiliated person once in a while.... just my own bitch in life.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby wagyl » Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:25 pm

yanpa wrote:the Aldgate in Shibuya does a nice Cornish Pastie, and is smoke-free to boot.

A very inclusive menu indeed. I was disappointed to see that they called Welsh Rarebit "Welsh Rabbit" but they also serve Welsh Faggots so their rainbow credentials are exemplary.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:33 pm

yanpa wrote:
wagyl wrote:I can honestly say that I have never been to a British Pub here. Am I missing out?


Yes... you're missing out on
expats ... standing around in British pubs nursing beers.


Though the Aldgate in Shibuya does a nice Cornish Pastie, and is smoke-free to boot.


That place has the atmosphere of a university cafeteria.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Coligny » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:54 am

With cheap slutz ?
Marion Marechal nous voila !

Verdun

ni oubli ni pardon

never forgive never forget/ for you illiterate kapitalist pigs


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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Mike Oxlong » Fri Aug 08, 2014 12:57 am

J.A.F.O wrote:It'd be nice to just share a beer with a non military affiliated person once in a while.... just my own bitch in life.

Still in da hizzy, if my lingo is still even halfway current...
•I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.•
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby J.A.F.O » Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:47 am

Mike Oxlong wrote:
J.A.F.O wrote:It'd be nice to just share a beer with a non military affiliated person once in a while.... just my own bitch in life.

Still in da hizzy, if my lingo is still even halfway current...


Long since departed, just this place crawls with the like. Sometimes I just want to talk about something other than military related b.s. Ya know for instance like How the Redsox doing? without the conversation somehow going to "The VA this ..." or "The Command that" I don't really care anymore I'm still trying to drink that shit into repressed memories so can get an ounce of sleep.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby matsuki » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:04 pm

J.A.F.O wrote:
Mike Oxlong wrote:
J.A.F.O wrote:It'd be nice to just share a beer with a non military affiliated person once in a while.... just my own bitch in life.

Still in da hizzy, if my lingo is still even halfway current...


Long since departed, just this place crawls with the like. Sometimes I just want to talk about something other than military related b.s. Ya know for instance like How the Redsox doing? without the conversation somehow going to "The VA this ..." or "The Command that" I don't really care anymore I'm still trying to drink that shit into repressed memories so can get an ounce of sleep.


:lol: We need an FG "field trip" to Vietnam
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Mike Oxlong » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:08 pm

J.A.F.O wrote:
Mike Oxlong wrote:
J.A.F.O wrote:It'd be nice to just share a beer with a non military affiliated person once in a while.... just my own bitch in life.

Still in da hizzy, if my lingo is still even halfway current...


Long since departed, just this place crawls with the like. Sometimes I just want to talk about something other than military related b.s. Ya know for instance like How the Redsox doing? without the conversation somehow going to "The VA this ..." or "The Command that" I don't really care anymore I'm still trying to drink that shit into repressed memories so can get an ounce of sleep.

Yeah, knew I said that wrong. Not military, never been. Still on The Rock.
•I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.•
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Hijinx » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:12 pm

Mid 20s? Sorry, you don't get to write an article like that and be taken seriously until you're at least 40.
Japan Today's moderators are retarded fuckwits. Especially the one that was moderating the morning of 12/31/18--what a true cunt.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby matsuki » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:34 pm

Hijinx wrote:Mid 20s? Sorry, you don't get to write an article like that and be taken seriously until you're at least 40.


In all fairness, I think many expats can see where he's coming from....but yeah, it's more worthy of some sort of emo blog than an article.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby havill » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:54 am

What a whiny little millennial bitch.

I wish the gaijin-as-a-disposable-fashion-accessory hunting Japanese women & men that frequent the pubs and clubs where these folk hang out would do society and these kids a favor and ground them in reality once in a while by going old-school J-mentor on them rather than tossing them back in the ocean after they've gotten their kicks; you know, after they come home to the J-girl's place to crash after the last train, a confrontation in the 1DK kitchen before they can make it to the bedroom, saying something like:

"How come you've lived here for three years and the only things you can do in Japanese is order from a menu with pictures, your 15 second self-introduction speech, and bar banter one liners and punch lines? Your Japanese sucks because you spend all your time talking to gaijin in English and drinking at gaijin bars, and talking to gaijin on internet! If you spent that time formally studying you'd be fluent and have a real job and real Japanese friends which you'd meet outside of bars by now -- one's that you could have real intelligent conversations with as opposed to using broken half-half English-Japanese mishmash to regurgitate the for-EFL content of the Japan Times!"


Something like the above should ideally be punctuated with a J-style smack across the face, and ended with "You don't get to / I won't / sleep here anymore until you can say something intelligent for at least 120 seconds about something that is not about yourself or a comparison to your or other foreign countries or culture in real Japanese! Stop drinking away the time and study!"

I think the men and women of Japan who interact with these young lads would be doing them a big favor for the future, and would be far better developed by the time they're forty.
Last edited by havill on Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Dreamy_Peach » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:10 pm

Hijinx wrote:Mid 20s? Sorry, you don't get to write an article like that and be taken seriously until you're at least 40.


+1

If you spent that time formally studying you'd be fluent and have a real job and real Japanese friends which you'd meet outside of bars by now -- one's that you could have real intelligent conversations with as opposed to using broken half-half English-Japanese mishmash to regurgitate the for-EFL content of the Japan Times!"


It's a delusion that if you speak fluent Japanese you'll have more friends and have a better job. It's one of the most serious misgivings that afflict people who have only been here for a couple of years, like this author.

Learn Japanese if you like the language - its sound, structure, kanji etc. But for economic reasons I'm sceptical on a cost/benefit basis. Even if you have the Japanese, maybe it will have some marginal influence on your career or social prospects, but at least in the work field it comes down to your foreignness or specialist knowledge or skills. Japanese is an add on in many respects.

Socially, it makes little real difference. You won't make friends with JP only speaking men in the first place, nor would you probably want to. JP women are more sociable and friendly. Maybe it's good for speaking with them but most will speak English anyway.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby 6810 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:31 pm

lulz... me teiks itt u harvnt lurnt da local lengwidge then?

Keep coming up with reasons to justify why you haven't learned the language yet...
This!
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby havill » Sat Aug 09, 2014 6:19 pm

Dreamy_Peach wrote:It's a delusion that if you speak fluent Japanese you'll have more friends and have a better job. It's one of the most serious misgivings that afflict people who have only been here for a couple of years, like this author.

You're absolutely right. It takes more than just fluent Japanese to have more friends and a better job. Speaking the language of the land is the BASELINE minimum requirement. If you're an jerk or lack a 21st century white collar skill set that is appropriate for the work, language fluency alone will not help you. However, you are delusional if you think that trying to master Japanese the Language of Japan the Land fails some cost/benefit analysis. Unless you made up your mind that you are a "visitor" here for a brief time from day one and have no intention of settling down or developing a career here.

In that case, yeah, picture-menu ("point & order while saying 「コレヲクダサイ」") chain restaurants, gaijin dance bars and pubs in urban foreigner-friendly nightlife areas, and amusement parks and tourist sites and beaches with all the rules explained with icons should be enough of a "Japan experience" for you.

You won't make friends with JP only speaking men in the first place, nor would you probably want to. JP women are more sociable and friendly. Maybe it's good for speaking with them but most will speak English anyway.

That's very revealing that you think that. I noticed that Debito.org types (♂) also comment about having no male Japanese friends (Debito wrote a whole post about it).

The fact that you can't make same-sex friends says more about you and your J lang ability and/or your attitude towards Japan than it does about Japanese men's attitude towards foreigners.

Here's a hint as to the cause: If you have no same sex friends, and removing (potential) sexual attraction, the desire for a "international 'friend'" to be seen next to in certain circles, and alcohol are removed from the equation, then it's usually a good indicator that:
  • Your Japanese isn't good enough to hold an intelligent, lengthy, interesting conversation.
  • ... and/or: You're a bitter bore (the "Type 7"s) that has a negative viewpoint about everything in Japan all the time (except for food & drink and service — the "consumer gaijin").

    We've all met that guy — they always have something snarky or cynical to say about everything because they confuse being sarcastic with being cool.

    Nobody likes a whiner or an emo. Unless they just want to sleep with them, want a "token gaijin symbol" for their visible proof of internationalization, or they are drunk.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Dreamy_Peach » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:33 pm

6810 wrote:lulz... me teiks itt u harvnt lurnt da local lengwidge then?

Keep coming up with reasons to justify why you haven't learned the language yet...


Think what you like. I actually studied JP along with engineering for my UG then later postgrad studies, including internships in JP industry.

I would humbly say that it is pretty fluent.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby havill » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:49 pm

Dreamy_Peach wrote:I would humbly say that it is pretty fluent.


No way we can assess that over the internet, so I'll take your word for it. What we can assess from your previous posts here, though, is that you're awfully knowledgeable and familiar with the gaijin/Roppongi/expat bar life. :wink:
Last edited by havill on Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Coligny » Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:52 pm

6810 wrote:lulz... me teiks itt u harvnt lurnt da local lengwidge then?

Keep coming up with reasons to justify why you haven't learned the language pidgin yet...



Fixed dat' fer youz...

I hazn't st00died Japanesego... I'd rather speak with the smart ones who speak english than the unwashed masses limited to their countryside variation of the slaughter...

Before SJ push his usual schtick that I can't criticize without having learned... The same way you can't tell bad food without being a professional cook or tell a bad car without being a fully qualified engineer...

A local just speak japanese...
99% of the web is for him like a dark internet
His new-sources are Fuji TV or NHK
At best his childhood readings included little black sambo
On the really limited chance that he read books (not manga, sorry, it's not reading) he only had access to censored/translated version. Same goes for movies. Even more frightening, in a technical field he has no access to original foreign material and bulletins. His history books reading involve more suspension of disbelief than watching Iron Man 2...

From a sociological standpoint, the intellectual gallapagos-ization can be fascinating...
For a discussion about where the Ukraine crisis is going... That might be a little more troublesome... Unless you want to hear that travel by plane is still much safer than by car... Because stats are numbers and numbers are science... And stuff...
Marion Marechal nous voila !

Verdun

ni oubli ni pardon

never forgive never forget/ for you illiterate kapitalist pigs


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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby yanpa » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:07 pm

Coligny wrote:
6810 wrote:lulz... me teiks itt u harvnt lurnt da local lengwidge then?

Keep coming up with reasons to justify why you haven't learned the language pidgin yet...



Fixed dat' fer youz...

I hazn't st00died Japanesego... I'd rather speak with the smart ones who speak english than the unwashed masses limited to their countryside variation of the slaughter...

Before SJ push his usual schtick that I can't criticize without having learned... The same way you can't tell bad food without being a professional cook or tell a bad car without being a fully qualified engineer...

A local just speak japanese...
99% of the web is for him like a dark internet
His new-sources are Fuji TV or NHK
At best his childhood readings included little black sambo
On the really limited chance that he read books (not manga, sorry, it's not reading) he only had access to censored/translated version. Same goes for movies. Even more frightening, in a technical field he has no access to original foreign material and bulletins. His history books reading involve more suspension of disbelief than watching Iron Man 2...

From a sociological standpoint, the intellectual gallapagos-ization can be fascinating...
For a discussion about where the Ukraine crisis is going... That might be a little more troublesome... Unless you want to hear that travel by plane is still much safer than by car... Because stats are numbers and numbers are science... And stuff...


Obviously the rules for those who live a sheltered life of leisure are different. For those of us doing real jobs in the real economy interacting with a wide range of real people, a working command of Japanese the country's native language is immensely useful (and puts you at an advantage over the entitled pricks who think it below them to deal with the native lingo). Exceptions granted of course to those who are only passing through.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Coligny » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:34 pm

Well... That's the purpose of a pidgin... So...
Marion Marechal nous voila !

Verdun

ni oubli ni pardon

never forgive never forget/ for you illiterate kapitalist pigs


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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby Coligny » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:36 pm

Coligny wrote:A local just speak japanese...
99% of the web is for him like a dark internet
His new-sources are Fuji TV or NHK
At best his childhood readings included little black sambo
On the really limited chance that he read books (not manga, sorry, it's not reading) he only had access to censored/translated version. Same goes for movies. Even more frightening, in a technical field he has no access to original foreign material and bulletins. His history books reading involve more suspension of disbelief than watching Iron Man 2...

From a sociological standpoint, the intellectual gallapagos-ization can be fascinating...
For a discussion about where the Ukraine crisis is going... That might be a little more troublesome... Unless you want to hear that travel by plane is still much safer than by car... Because stats are numbers and numbers are science... And stuff...


Ermargerd... I just realized that Japan is like DPRK just with more food and Totoyas...
Marion Marechal nous voila !

Verdun

ni oubli ni pardon

never forgive never forget/ for you illiterate kapitalist pigs


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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby wuchan » Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:53 pm

wow.


It never amazes me how many people don't get it.








Learning Japanese is a skill. It will help you if you use it properly. This isn't Europe, the locals won't be all warm and fuzzy if you are fluent. The gaijin tend to forget the three types of japan friends: childhood, close and everyone else. As a person that the Japanese person met mid life you will automatically become "everyone else". Language ability doesn't matter, it's just part of the culture. You have to really change a person's life to make the close circle here. (your j-food blog isn't even on their radar)

Japanese will help you open a business and run it. Japanese will help you pay less tax. Japanese will not make you Japanese.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby havill » Sat Aug 09, 2014 11:09 pm

wuchan wrote:Learning Japanese is a skill. It will help you if you use it properly. … the locals won't be all warm and fuzzy if you are fluent.


Again, I repeat: you're absolutely right. The Japanese language is the BASELINE minimum for success in either friendship or work. You still need layers built on top of that foundation (ex. a good attitude, a desire to fit in, etc. and/or relevant and strong job skills) in order to make it from there.

If you're an ass aka an In-duh-vidual or an average worker, no amount of Japanese language skills will help you.

As for the rest of your excuses: if that sort of stereotype helps you deal with the fact that for some reason you have no Japanese friends and makes you feel that it's Not Your Fault... well... we all have our tools for Psychological Deflection of Blame for Our Failures, I guess. :biggrin2:
Last edited by havill on Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby CrankyBastard » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:39 am

The only reason I made the effort to learn Japanese was that I was tired of feeling like a three-year-old.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby wagyl » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:59 am

I have a sneaking suspicion that some people like feeling like a three year old. You can throw a tantrum at will, and get other people to do stuff for you. What's not to like? You just have to live with the constant frustrations.
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Re: Life lessons from a grizzled old expat

Postby CrankyBastard » Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:24 am

Funny thing is though, dementia will probably start kicking in soon and then I'll be back to square one,
I wonder if an advantage of a second language would double the time it'll take.
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